Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Quote from: Demiandre on Today at 10:13:13 AM

Did Moiraine know back in tSR.that she would end up with Thom while saying to Supergirls that she surely knows the name of the person she will marry than the girls know who they will?

It was actually the face, not necessarily his name.

Exact quote::

Quote

I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry better than either of you knows that of your future husband.

 

She didnt say she knew the NAME, or just who she was going to marry, but the FACE, which means a totally different thing, remember, Elayne really knows little of Rand at this time, and Nynaeve doesnt really actually know Lan either, so its not just who will end up married, but knowing the "Face" of the one that she will marry, which opens it up, She didnt say she knew who she would marry and the others didnt, but she knew his face better than they knew of their future husbands

[yoniy0]

That could end up an important part of it, or it's just a turn of phrase.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The same then could be said of everything, it gets nobody anywhere

 

In any case, I think the "turn of Phrase" is exactly the point, thats how the AS avoid the oaths

[yoniy0]

Excuse me, I meant to say that I think you're taking Moiraine's statement too literally, but at the same time I acknowledged that sometimes one has to do just that when it comes to that woman.

So take it as an 'I don't agree but your argument is valid'. If you feel that this doesn't advance the discussion much, well, I agree. But it's good to sometimes test the public reception of your theories, isn't it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Sorry, i wasnt meaning to offend you with that statement, i just said, what good is the discussion if all the evidence i provide is thrown out with just saying "it could be turn of phrase" its like the old argument about the existence of God, people just say "God works in mysterious ways" thers no point in saying anything.

 

As for taking it too literally, i was only doing that because you were also taking it literally, emphasising the "Marry" part and how it was phrased exactly, so id ont think you can fault me on that, i used your logic to counter, you cant go back and say that it doesnt count, its just going around in circles.

 

However, i will say again, i wasnt actually intending the last comment to insult you (sigh, we really need a way of conveying tone on discussions, perhaps red for angry, blue for thoughtful, yellow for lighthearted etc..)

 

So i apologize for that.

[Tsunami]

I forget the term used by the Loial's mother, but do we know if the Gardeners are in on the escape plan?  Seems like it would be a legend to them as disassociated as they are from RandLand Ogier.

[yoniy0]

I forget the term used by the Loial's mother, but do we know if the Gardeners are in on the escape plan?  Seems like it would be a legend to them as disassociated as they are from RandLand Ogier.

I don't know, and I actually think that it's quite insulting that they weren't invited to the Stump (at least, were I a Seanchan Ogier and I learned that the Randlanders intend to open the Book of Translation without consulting me, I'd be offended :)).

 

Barid, not at all, I wasn't offended (you and I have been there, haven't we?). I think it's not the same thing. One can hardly say 'whom I'll marry' when actually referring to some casual love interest, but I can certainly see her saying 'know his face' when she means 'know him'. Don't you agree?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hahaha yeah, and each time it turns out neither meant to offend  ;D

 

And I do agree with you, however, i explained the "marry" bit in the original post, it doesnt have to mean literal, definite forgone conclusion, only that at that time, she intended to marry him, and had not forseen her own demise, the same example i will use, in saying "I will eat in an hour". Obviously if she died randomly, it would "technically" mean that the said words were untrue, but she did intend to eat, and could not have forseen her death.

 

So when you eccentuated the word "marry" as such, I believed that you were taking the words literally, in the same sense as i did with "face". Thats where I got confused, it seemed that you were saying "i use one rule for my evidence" but then "it doesnt apply to yours" kinda thing.

 

Perhaps you didnt see my explaination, or missed it, i am not sure, but yeah, anyway, all good.

 

Note: Your points are also valid, and I will admit that it could very well be that you are correct, that wasnt the point, it was just the feeling that it was going round in circles.

[Tsunami]

The Crystal Throne is not an angreal, it's a ter'angreal. It induces awe and reversence for the person seated in it.

 

 

Fairly exciting to see this addressed here... I asked this question of RJ (and got this answer) at the book signing in Richmond, VA loooong ago. 

 

Was also seated next to the line of people asking questions/ getting books signed at that event when the infamous "Sammael is toast" line was uttered.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Slightly random, but seeing as you mentioned Sammael's "toast" status, isnt there some people who think that Sammael is reborn?

 

If so, Brandon has answered this, saying that the taint of Mashadar prevents him from being ressurected.

(after a question about all the Forsaken who were not balefired being reborn)

 

If you want I can get the quote, but I am not able to right now

[BareUpperLip79]

 

I'm rereading the series and I have a few more related (to each other) questions:

 

In TGH, Liandrin Sedai hands the three girls over to High Lady Suroth specifically so that Egwene and Nynaeve can be shipped to the other side of the sea. This is because the Dark side (read Ishamael) thinks that Egwene and Nynaeve are going to save Rand at some point.

-What makes him think this? Can he foretell or something?

-Why not just get Liandrin to murder them?

-Have the girls saved Rand yet?

 

[Aquarius]

 

I'm rereading the series and I have a few more related (to each other) questions:

 

In TGH, Liandrin Sedai hands the three girls over to High Lady Suroth specifically so that Egwene and Nynaeve can be shipped to the other side of the sea. This is because the Dark side (read Ishamael) thinks that Egwene and Nynaeve are going to save Rand at some point.

-What makes him think this? Can he foretell or something?

-Why not just get Liandrin to murder them?

-Have the girls saved Rand yet?

 

Is "save" really the right word ? I thought it was more something like "these girls are very important if close to Rand".

 

Anyway, at that time, it was probably too early to murder them, without knowing what was their purpose. Anyway, I agree with you, it still feels strange.

[yoniy0]

Ishamael said:

"They will not save you," Ba'alzamon said. "Those who might save you will be carried far across the Aryth Ocean. If ever you see them again, they will be collared slaves, and they will destroy you for their new masters."

What he meant by that is anyone's guess.

[StringWinder]

I actually thought that was pretty straightforward.

 

Remember, the Shadow has two major goals at that point.  To sow chaos and to convert Rand.  One of the best ways to create chaos is to mess with Rand's mind, make him mentally and emotionally unstable.  That may also be one of the bst ways to convert him, also.

 

So why kill the girls when you could collar them, put them in the hands of a high ranking darkfriend, and control them?  It would give you great leverage against Rand, it would probably make him feel massively guilty, and just make him nuts in a general way. 

[DemandredFO]

Nyneave maybe critical again but she was in Winter's Heart as the person Rand most trusted to cleanse Saidin, as for Egwene, no idea she's been playing in the tower.  As for Ishamael's knowledge it may be something similar to what happened to Rand on Dragonmount or a result of being so close to Shai'tan and probably his champion.  Obviously however he know things is imperfect or he would've made sure elayne went along because seeing her collared or as a demane probably would've destroyed Rand instantly.

[farthammer]

What are the oaths the seanchan think the westlanders broke or abandoned?  Having a hard time finding it.

[Charlz Fel]

What are the oaths the seanchan think the westlanders broke or abandoned?  Having a hard time finding it.

I don't think this is ever really explained.  We know that some people (the Watchers over the Waves) still believed that Hawkwing's armies would return from across the Aryth Ocean.  Perhaps Hawkwing made everyone swear to accept his heir as his successor, whom he then sent across the ocean and whom most people forgot when the Hundred Years War came up.  Whatever the truth, it's pretty clear that the Seanchan (probably unintentionally) distorted the truth to fit with their own cultural bias, and consequently had wholly unreasonable expectations when they came back to the Westlands.

[Fains nose]

The oaths Randlanders are said to have broken were to wait, obey, serve, they are now being forced to reswear the oaths their ancestors forsook, there are numerous references to this in the book.

[Val Mickey]

How come Moghedien or Taim never break the Seals?

[yoniy0]

How come Moghedien or Taim never break the Seals?

Moghedien couldn't, the Seal in Tanchico was still unbreakable (the BF didn't break it, or was that the Dominion Band?).

And Taim - that seems to be part of some scheme. Or, maybe he wasn't evil when we first saw him.

[Tsunami]

How come Moghedien or Taim never break the Seals?

 

Moghedien couldn't, the Seal in Tanchico was still unbreakable (the BF didn't break it, or was that the Dominion Band?).

And Taim - that seems to be part of some scheme. Or, maybe he wasn't evil when we first saw him.

 

Right, the Tanchico seal wasn't yet breakable.  Maybe fragile only after the 'waves of evil' finish coming out.

 

I've also wondered about Taim.  Seems to me that giving over the seal was a good way of establishing his bona fides to Rand.

 

On a semi-related note... why kill Fel if he was about to tell Rand to break the seals?  Wouldn't this advice have jibed with the effort the DO has put forth into making them fragile?

[yoniy0]

So, maybe the rubble he mentioned wasn't supposed to be the Seals alone? Or maybe that 'Belief and order give strength' part is vital in some way.

[Barid Bel Medar]

So, maybe the rubble he mentioned wasn't supposed to be the Seals alone? Or maybe that 'Belief and order give strength' part is vital in some way.

 

Yes I agree, perhaps there was something else aswell, more important, that the Shadow didnt want to be explained.

 

But you could think of it this way. If we assume that the information was say, "Breaking the seals and resealing is the only way to defeat the DO", even if the DO wants to break free at this time, and the breaking of the seals would be profitable, he wouldnt want Rand knowing that it was also a chance for victory. The seals are already weakening, much easier would be to, as thy tried, stealing the seals and breaking them themselves, that way, the seals get broken, and Rand is left in the dark about the re-sealing.

[Val Mickey]

I'll rephrase my question - How come they never take the seals to Shayol Ghul?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'll rephrase my question - How come they never take the seals to Shayol Ghul?

they did try, but remember, even the shadow doesnt know where the seals are, at least until Rand and co. found them, then they tried (Bashere and Dobraine?)