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Does anyone know who Silvie is, the crone Egwene meets in the heart of the stone in tDR.

Is it Lanfear?

Edited by damandred

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Does anyone know who Silvie is, the crone Egwene meets in the heart of the stone in tDR.

Is it Lanfear?

Correct.

Ah thought so, wasnt sure though. Thanks.

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is Bayle Domon a simple base born sailor? or does he have a hidden past. My allegations are based on the fact that he is completely comfortable with talking to nobility (especially Seanchan whom he had no idea who they where), is an able speaking coach (to Shipless), can identify cuenduellar with a short look at it NOT to mention that he identified it (accurately) as a seal. Just a bit of idle speculation while I was at work

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Bayle Domon just a simple man who grew up an orphan, on the mean streets, until taken in, and raised further in the company of other like individuals, playing upon the masquerade of being in the service of a particular deity, while in reality, becoming a quirky troupe of highly skilled thieves under the tutelage of er uh...ahem  *cough

Because, er..smugglers gotta smugg..le?

Go Light?

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At the Black Tower, a number of Aes Sedia and Ashamen were forced to the Shadow.

 

the Aes Sedia, which happened?

-they still bound to the 3 Oaths

-they bound to different oaths

-they not bound to any oaths

 

the Ashamen, was taint-caused madness removed or did the madness remain?

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At the Black Tower, a number of Aes Sedia and Ashamen were forced to the Shadow.

 

the Aes Sedia, which happened?

-they still bound to the 3 Oaths

-they bound to different oaths

-they not bound to any oaths

 

the Ashamen, was taint-caused madness removed or did the madness remain?

Taint madness was probably still there, Nyn is the only one who can remove it among mortals (along with whoever she teaches).

 

The AS would have to remove old oaths. New oaths unknown if their the binding type, since we don't know the methods for channellers to pledge to the DO

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Guess depending on how forcing someone to the DO affects the person, its possible those forced to the DO had no need to take any oaths since being forced to the DO there is no chance of them betraying the DO like there wuld be if you willingly went to the DO.  But its possible they might og had to take the oaths the Black Ajah takes. 

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I remember a strange moment in FoH, when Moggy has meeting with the BA. There was not a real need to gag ears&mouths of Lia and others- they had not a moral power fo continue struggle against Miggy. Then she could use only a circle of silence. Why Moggy did otherwise?

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Same method Ishy used at the beginning of The great hunt if I remember right, blocking each persons hearing.  Why take chances, for one its intimidating and another is there is no way to betray the others.  Verin did say darkfriends can betray each other and even turn against the chosen if they can justify it.  Moggy simply took no chances and also is there a circle of silence weave?  With that there is a risk of the circle being off and someone hearing.  Moghy way there is no way any of the BA there could betray anyone if captured, another forsaken grabs them, or they decide to grab power.  I think she was just being extra cautious. 

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So I still can't decide this. How much did the Pattern plan out in this series? Because it still bothers me how it can meticulously plan for stuff even though it involves the Dark One's direct interference (like being able to save Rand from Semirhage via Rand having access to the True Power) Semi was only released because of the direct actions of Shaidar Haran, a subset of the Dark One. So how did the Pattern plan for that?

 

I keep trying to give the story the benefit of the doubt and I'm trying to convince myself that the PAttern didn't do EVERYTHING but I keep thinking that the implication is that it did. And that would make this series awful if it did. That means there was no danger or risk or tension if I could be confident that the Pattern had planned a fool proof method of victory for literally every single thing that happened without fail.

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The pattern didn't give rand access to the TP, either the DO did as a way to try and tempt Rand or it was because of his link with Moridin.  I believe the DO set Semi up then allowed Rand through his link with Moridin to get the TP and kill her in hopes the seductive nature of the TP and wanting revenge would be what makes Rand join the shadow.  The pattern didn't allow Rand to suddenly access the TP in order to save him.  The pattern is about balance but as we saw at the end with Rand's perfect world, the pattern also is about freedom of choice.  If Rand had joined the shadow the pattern couldn't suddenly spin out a new champion.  In some cases yes by being tav'ern the pattern will force him along a certain path and may provide things here and there he might need.  The pattern didn't try and save Rand when semi fired off a fireball at him and it didn't save him from Semi capturing him. 

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The pattern didn't give rand access to the TP, either the DO did as a way to try and tempt Rand or it was because of his link with Moridin.  I believe the DO set Semi up then allowed Rand through his link with Moridin to get the TP and kill her in hopes the seductive nature of the TP and wanting revenge would be what makes Rand join the shadow.  The pattern didn't allow Rand to suddenly access the TP in order to save him.  The pattern is about balance but as we saw at the end with Rand's perfect world, the pattern also is about freedom of choice.  If Rand had joined the shadow the pattern couldn't suddenly spin out a new champion.  In some cases yes by being tav'ern the pattern will force him along a certain path and may provide things here and there he might need.  The pattern didn't try and save Rand when semi fired off a fireball at him and it didn't save him from Semi capturing him. 

What about Mogehdien then? She's an intelligent shadow warrior and yet all she does is end up being beneficial to the Light side in one way or another. Did she have no chance of winning?

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The pattern doesn't make you good at your job or not, if you are incompetent its not the patterns fault. 

 

Moghi whole purpose in AMOL never made much sense to me.  The whole spying on Tuon instead of just balefiring her and being done with it.  She easily could of used the TP blasted tuon and used the tp way of traveling and of been gone before anyone knew it.  or used compulsion on the death watch guards and has them assassinate her.  Like many of the chosen when it came down to it they seemed rather inept, not many of them lived up to their scary reputation.

 

  Only way off hand I can think of her being really beneficial to the light was when she was captured. But in the end like when I mentioned once how the plan to trap Rand in Tear seemed needlessly complicated and elaborate.  I was told that's how RJ wrote it and if they just appeared by Rand and killed him it would be a very short series.  So I doubt the pattern was ruining moghi's plans and schemes.  She attempted some things like I am pretty sure it was her that impersonated Sam to send trollocs after Rand but her biggest failing is she was a coward.

Edited by BFG
AMOL spoiler

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Memory of Light spoilers are not allowed in this thread; the thread title contains "No AMOL Spoilers".

 

About the Pattern planning this series; I am not sure.  If the Pattern could plan, the planned events could include predictions; not sure about the planned events including non-predicted events.

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The pattern doesn't make you good at your job or not, if you are incompetent its not the patterns fault. 

 

Moghi whole purpose in AMOL never made much sense to me.  The whole spying on Tuon instead of just balefiring her and being done with it.  She easily could of used the TP blasted tuon and used the tp way of traveling and of been gone before anyone knew it.  or used compulsion on the death watch guards and has them assassinate her.  Like many of the chosen when it came down to it they seemed rather inept, not many of them lived up to their scary reputation.

 

Only way off hand I can think of her being really beneficial to the light was when she was captured. But in the end like when I mentioned once how the plan to trap Rand in Tear seemed needlessly complicated and elaborate.  I was told that's how RJ wrote it and if they just appeared by Rand and killed him it would be a very short series.  So I doubt the pattern was ruining moghi's plans and schemes.  She attempted some things like I am pretty sure it was her that impersonated Sam to send trollocs after Rand but her biggest failing is she was a coward.

 

Mog was not inept. She seemed quite intelligent and cunning based on everything I see her doing in the series. Her being a coward is what gave her her power in a way. It made her cautious and careful in a lot of respects.

 

And the Pattern not screwing with her? She would've killed Nynaeve but pigeons threw her aim off the second she fired. The timing meant that HAD to have been the pattern. She also led to Birgitte becoming Elayne's warder by bringing her out of the world of dreams. I considered that a pretty awesome moment for her though. Especially considering she had just been hit with an arrow at the time.

Edited by BFG
amol spoiler in quote

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The point I was trying to make is sure some things are planned, hence the prophecies, the pattern forcing ta'vern into certain actions and deeds etc.  The pigeons flying up could of been a result of the pattern.  But if everything that happened was planned by the pattern then there would be no free will.  Every thing that happens isn't the pattern interceding.  Hence why Moraine told Rand he had to be careful if he died that's it.  Her being a coward I would say added to her survival but it also meant if she thought there was any risk to her she would bail on a plan quickly if She thought she could get away with it.  Like at the cleansing she wasn't going to lift a finger to help the others go after Rand.  I consider the Brigette moment not planned by the pattern since Brigitte broke the rules about helping people when the heroes are waiting in the world of dreams.  So for me Brigette getting spun out and becoming Elayne's warder wasn't the work of the pattern but the consequences of her using free will.

Edited by Sabio

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Actually, Birgitte was ripped out; not spun out.  spun out would have been if she came out as a fetus.

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Does Brandon Sanderson ever tell us who actually killed Asmodean? I've been a Wot fan for ages,  but I honestly didn't care for the last few books and I have no plans to trudge through A Memory of Light ( No offense if you liked it, I just kind of think the Wheel of Time series went down hill towards the end, just my opinion). Anyway, I've read a few summaries just to find out what happened in the final book, but they don't seem to mention Asmodean's killer? Or did RJ/Sanderson mention it a while back?

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There is a thread in the structured section that discusses his killer.  That thread contains at least most of what both authors told about his death & his killer; and at least most content related to the subject.

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@Rose, In the glossary in TOM it states under Graendal:  A ruthless killer; she as responsible for the deaths of Asan'gar, Asmodean, and for the destruction of Mesaana. 

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@Rose, In the glossary in TOM it states under Graendal:  A ruthless killer; she as responsible for the deaths of Asan'gar, Asmodean, and for the destruction of Mesaana. 

 

Before you even get to the glossary it is revealed in the Epilogue by Shaidar Haran. He holds her directly responsible in the deaths of 3 Chosen including Mesaana. We know one of the others was Aran'gar and by process of elimination we are left with Asmodean as the 3rd.

 

Dead Forsaken are:

 

Aginor/Osan'gar

Be'lal

Rahvin

Semirhage

Sammael

Balthamel/Aran'gar

Mesaana

Asmodean

Edited by Finnssss

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Took me until  AMOL came out when I did a reread of TOM and casually flipped through the glossary to even notice it was there, I stopped paying attention to the glossaries after Lord of Chaos.  RJ and even BS are good for giving the information but never directly saying it in the book.

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