Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Barid Bel Medar]

The Creator bound the Dark One outside of reality at the moment of creation.

 

Or so the characters believe. But now it seems someone in a differnet age, possibly even Rand himself, actually made or remade the prison that contains the DO, at some point between Rand's time and when then Age of Legends comes around again. People keep saying things like "how could any person re-create what the Creator made", but I don't know if the Creator ever did actually make the Dark One's prison.

 

I agree with you on this completely.

 

It has been very firmly established that the Creator DOES NOT TAKE PART (see what I did there?). RJ was always emphatic on that point. The Creator will not help, not a chance.

 

We know the Wheel is endless and has turned countless times before this. This is not the first rotation of the Wheel.

 

Thus, if the Prison was whole when the AoL came around again, the Prison must be made complete again before the next age of legends. The Creator will not fix it, thus it must be that either a) it fixes itself naturally after a while of the DO being held back or b) humanity (or some other race in some other age) makes the prison whole again.

 

There is very good reason to believe that Rand will indeed fix the DO's prison, make it whole until it is drilled through in the next AoL.

[Byzantine279]

The Creator bound the Dark One outside of reality at the moment of creation.

 

Or so the characters believe. But now it seems someone in a differnet age, possibly even Rand himself, actually made or remade the prison that contains the DO, at some point between Rand's time and when then Age of Legends comes around again. People keep saying things like "how could any person re-create what the Creator made", but I don't know if the Creator ever did actually make the Dark One's prison.

 

I agree with you on this completely.

 

It has been very firmly established that the Creator DOES NOT TAKE PART (see what I did there?). RJ was always emphatic on that point. The Creator will not help, not a chance.

 

We know the Wheel is endless and has turned countless times before this. This is not the first rotation of the Wheel.

 

Thus, if the Prison was whole when the AoL came around again, the Prison must be made complete again before the next age of legends. The Creator will not fix it, thus it must be that either a) it fixes itself naturally after a while of the DO being held back or b) humanity (or some other race in some other age) makes the prison whole again.

 

There is very good reason to believe that Rand will indeed fix the DO's prison, make it whole until it is drilled through in the next AoL.

 

Perhaps everyone is wrong, and when the DO wins he just laughs, says "good game" and then goes back and closes it back up and everything starts over.

[Hagazussa]

From one thing to another here. Now I am sure this question have been asked before but I could not find it so I will ask it again if that is all right. Now we know that to heal severing completely and get the channeler back up to full strength one need the healer to be of the opposite gender as the severed channeler, and therefore Siuan and Leane have such reduced strength. Now my question is could a man heal those two up to full strength by just healing them again or would they have to be severed again to do this?

 

The way I see it there are three options either A a man can just add to the healing that have already been done and get them back to original strength by that. However everything else in the series can only be healed once, meaning that if you break you leg and the healer is not strong enough to heal you completely then a stronger one can not try again without there being a new wound. Option B is that if they are severed again then yes a man can then heal them back up to their original strength. Option C is that they are stuck as they are, that if they are severed again then a man could only heal them back up to their new level or a women could heal them to a even lower level. Do anyone know how this would work?

 

Another question which off course would be pure speculation is if severing them again and then getting healing from a man could get them back to full strength would they do it? Let us say Siuan and Leane met Flinn and found out they could be healed completely if severed again would they take that risk? I would think Siuan would do it, she needs her status restored and she is tough as nails. I however do not think Leane would do it, I think she would be grateful with what she got not that she have her channeling ability back. Pure speculation off course but it would be my guess.

[BFG]

^actually I view it the other way round...

 

Not sure about Leane, we don't have any pov's from her to know what she's thinking, but Siuane now seems to be happy with Gareth, not sure she now wants the extra responsibility that the old power gives her.

[FarShainMael]

What about Moiraine? Could the damage done to her by the 'finns be repaired?

[yoniy0]

What about Moiraine? Could the damage done to her by the 'finns be repaired?

What would be the point of her angreal, then?

[TristanWebb]

That brings up an interesting point about the nature of the connection to the Source. Nyn repaired it and the saidin repairs saidar all the way thing comes up, but if Moir can be limited it isn't like a pipe that has a leaky connector, there is something else happening. I would say if it is possible to return Moir to her full power, it would be possible to open any person who could channel up to level 25/saidin Max Level.

[Hagazussa]

The damage done by the Finns are a bit different, that is more like if they "ate" part her ability to channel, that is not a cut to be fused together, there might be ways to fix the problem but not with the normal way a severed connection to the Source is healed.

 

Siuan might not want her old responsibilities but if she feel she still have a role to play she would give up her own happiness for the cause and I think she can see it like she can be happy with Gareth and have a higher rank. Leane was always the one of the pair most in despair over having been stilled, she survived more or less because Siuan dragged her along, I do not think she would risk that again for some added power.

[FarShainMael]

What about Moiraine? Could the damage done to her by the 'finns be repaired?

What would be the point of her angreal, then?

 

Her version of the Little Fat Man?

[BFG]

I have no doubt that Siuan would take up the responsibilities again if she felt she needed to - but she's accepted Eg as an exceptional leader (her opinion), Eg listens to her advice despite the power gap, and if she needed more power than she could ask Eg for an angreal/sa'angreal and probably get it without to much fuss.

 

I think you're right about leanne though, she was always more grateful than Siuan for being healed. Siuan before ToM/end of tGS I would have agreed with you there to.

[Tensai0211]

Here's a question for you, if Halima had became pregnant and had a child who could channel which power would it have access to?

Edited November 12, 2012 by Tensai0211

[yoniy0]

Here's a question for you, if Halima had became pregnant and had a child who could channel which power would it have access to?

It would depend on the child's gender, I would imagine.

[FanoLan]

^actually I view it the other way round...

 

Not sure about Leane, we don't have any pov's from her to know what she's thinking, but Siuane now seems to be happy with Gareth, not sure she now wants the extra responsibility that the old power gives her.

 

Agree with this conclusion. Not sure about the reasoning, but there is no way Siuan would subject Gareth to the impact of severing. We know that the bond is snapped when the bond holder is severed/gentled/stilled and know further that the specific reaction in the Warder differs. Siuan would not risk Gareth keeling over from the shock, or losing his mind and going into a death rage. Elaborate safeguards would need to be implemented to minimize the lesser uninted consequence and the risk of the greater could never be completly eliminated. No way Siuan agrees to this based on that reason alone.

 

Leann has not yet bonded a new Warder, at least not that we've seen. She would probably consider it and probably even go through with it in order to more effectively serve the Light in TG.

[yoniy0]

Siuan would not risk Gareth keeling over from the shock, or losing his mind and going into a death rage.

She wouldn't have to. She can release his bond, go through the procedure, then bond him again.

[Hagazussa]

Agree with this conclusion. Not sure about the reasoning, but there is no way Siuan would subject Gareth to the impact of severing. We know that the bond is snapped when the bond holder is severed/gentled/stilled and know further that the specific reaction in the Warder differs. Siuan would not risk Gareth keeling over from the shock, or losing his mind and going into a death rage. Elaborate safeguards would need to be implemented to minimize the lesser uninted consequence and the risk of the greater could never be completly eliminated. No way Siuan agrees to this based on that reason alone.

 

Like Yoniy pointed out Siuan could just release Gareth's bond or transfer it, have the procedure done and bond him again that would be completely safe. The only question really is if Siuan or Leane would be willing to go through the pain and trauma of being stilled again, even if knowing that it was only temporary to regain their past strength, and whatever or not they would trust a male channeler to do such a procedure.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

The man loial talks about coming to the stedding in EotW. Was that Farstrider? Ishy says something to the affect of "i sent him to the ogier thinking he was free of me."

 

Doing my first reread since joining up. Thought I'd validate my theories as I go

Edited November 12, 2012 by Asmodeanisdemandread

[yoniy0]

The man loial talks about coming to the stedding in EotW. Was that Farstrider? Ishy says something to the affect of "i sent him to the ogier thinking he was free of me."

Aye, it be Jain.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

The man loial talks about coming to the stedding in EotW. Was that Farstrider? Ishy says something to the affect of "i sent him to the ogier thinking he was free of me."

Aye, it be Jain.

 

Awesome. I did a reread before/during joining the site and now that I've read most of the new stuff I decided to do another one. I'm glad you guys have made me more "open-eyed" so to speak. Granted, I'm sure that most of you noticed that once noal was introduced

[mb]

From one thing to another here. Now I am sure this question have been asked before but I could not find it so I will ask it again if that is all right. Now we know that to heal severing completely and get the channeler back up to full strength one need the healer to be of the opposite gender as the severed channeler, and therefore Siuan and Leane have such reduced strength. Now my question is could a man heal those two up to full strength by just healing them again or would they have to be severed again to do this?

 

The way I see it there are three options either A a man can just add to the healing that have already been done and get them back to original strength by that. However everything else in the series can only be healed once, meaning that if you break you leg and the healer is not strong enough to heal you completely then a stronger one can not try again without there being a new wound. Option B is that if they are severed again then yes a man can then heal them back up to their original strength. Option C is that they are stuck as they are, that if they are severed again then a man could only heal them back up to their new level or a women could heal them to a even lower level. Do anyone know how this would work?

 

Another question which off course would be pure speculation is if severing them again and then getting healing from a man could get them back to full strength would they do it? Let us say Siuan and Leane met Flinn and found out they could be healed completely if severed again would they take that risk? I would think Siuan would do it, she needs her status restored and she is tough as nails. I however do not think Leane would do it, I think she would be grateful with what she got not that she have her channeling ability back. Pure speculation off course but it would be my guess.

Like you speculated, it was asked before; in other threads.

I would guess a different weave (or a different set or weaves) would be needed to bring them back to full strength.

Edited November 13, 2012 by mb

[Byzantine279]

It is also possible that the wound has "scarred" because of the previous healing and it is impossible to get them back to full strength again. (Similar to how Moiraine could not repair Thom's leg completely, it had partially healed on its own and there was nothing she could do about the improper setting. Even stilling them again does not guarantee the blockage their full strength would be removed.)

[Hagazussa]

It is also possible that the wound has "scarred" because of the previous healing and it is impossible to get them back to full strength again. (Similar to how Moiraine could not repair Thom's leg completely, it had partially healed on its own and there was nothing she could do about the improper setting. Even stilling them again does not guarantee the blockage their full strength would be removed.)

 

That is a possibility, but if a man did the healing it probably would not risk them getting even weaker to try, unless off course there is a limit to how many times you can heal a connection before it is completely toast.

[EmperorAllspice]

It might've just been early installment weirdness, but what was with Rand acting weird as hell in book 1? I'm thinking of scenes like in the town of Baerlon and on the ship after Shadar Logoth. He seems to inexplicably become possessed or euphoric, and started acting like a spaz. Even he was scared by it when he noticed. Initially I thought it was taint madness but given how it ACTUALLY ended up affecting him, and given that he hadn't even started properly channeling more than trickles unconsciously by that point, it doesn't really make sense.

[yoniy0]

what was with Rand acting weird as hell in book 1?

It was an effect of touching the Source without proper guidance. Moiraine listed it among the possible side-effects when she explained the procedure to Nynaeve.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yoniy0

[EmperorAllspice]

what side effect is that, just wondering?

[BFG]

At the Cleansing scene the female Forsaken taunt Demandred with the fact that if the taint is removed from the Source, he won't need the Dark Ones protection to channel safely any more and that therefore the DO won't (or may not) trust male channelers as much anymore.

 

Does this imply that as the female channelers don't need his protection that they're curently trusted less, or that males are inherantly less trust worthy. Additionally the taint occurred as a couterstrike to the sealing, so wouldn't have affected them during the War of Power. Does this mean they've been trusted more since released as a result of the taint and protection? Or was it aimed at Demandred specifically as a way to hint that he personally wasn't going to be trusted?