Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Without the taint's madness, would Rand have been able to cope with another man suddenly appearing in his head? I believe the taint shielded him from even greater madness.

 

Firstly, the taint is not a madness, the taint causes madness. It basically works as a catalyst--this is why we see so many different types of madness, and why we see different time frames in their manifestation. So natural forms of insanity--of which the manifestation of a past life voice is--occur due to exposure to the Taint.

 

The answer to your question is no, there would have been no difference between what occured to Rand under the Taint than if Lews Therin had manifested naturally. Except that Lews Therin probably wouldn't have maifested naturally without the Taint any more than Morr would have had a reversion to childhood without the Taint.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Rand always had memories of Lews Therin locked away in his head. From EotW, particularly in his dreams with Ishamael, he vaguely remembers things that LTT knows.

 

The voice of Lews Therin was a product of the Taint (whether he is real or manifestation, the voice is caused by Taint induced maddness)

 

You could view it three ways, that Rand always had access to these memories, and without the Taint he would have gradually regained them in a less painful manor (I don't think this is right, but a possibility)

 

Or that it was all part of the Pattern, that Rand was MEANT to suffer madness with the Taint to have LTT voice as a easier way to cope with the change (both real or not, it would help him cope) so that he could stand up to the Dark One.

 

The last being that it was just a random occurrence, possibly due to Ta'veren, that led to the specific madness which turned out to be a good thing in the end.

[Lisa Campbell]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Semirhage was speaking of an Age before the Dark One (my opinion not fact but most likely, in the War of Power, there wouldn't have been much time for study). Therefore the voice is not a repercussion of the taint. I think it happens because an 'important' soul had been reborn and the new body was inflicted with the old soul's memories. And it was common enough that it was studied medically for Semirhage/Graendal to know about it. Maybe a ta'veren effect though Perrin shows no signs, wolfishness aside.

 

Edited to add: It's a pity that most went mad because of it, they probably needed those memories to do what they were supposed to do at that time. But who is to say they didn't accomplish their purpose before their "descent into madness" or even after.

Edited July 29, 2012 by YouMayCallMeElci

[FanoLan]

One of Semi, Mesaana, Dem surely has access to information about Rand from one of the DFs that have been close to him. The visible manifestations of his increasing madness had to have been noticeable to even the most casual observer. The readers have the benefit of Rand's PoV of course, but other characters would see his increasing tendency to mutter to himself. Everyone in the WoT knows men who channel go mad so spies would be looking for the signs. If you believe the DO's ultimate victory could only come after turning the DR, Rand's mental health would have been one of his primary concerns and any signs of weakness would have been strenuously sought.

 

None of which explains Semirhage's specific knowledge. Only the abstract knowledge provided by Graendal of others with Rand's condition could have provided that.

 

 

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means. Without the decent into madness, Rand would never have thought he heard a voice. "Reintegration" would never have been necessary because the disintegration would not have occurred. LTT's memories and personality would have been a welcomed part of RaT from the start. The ta'ver'en, the most important one produced in the Third Age in order to ensure the continuity of the Wheel of Time, would not have been gestated with an inherent design flaw. Absent the taint (direct intervention by the DO) Rand Therin would have emerged earlier and with much less of a chance of the DO's victory.

 

Actually, you got that backward. Without the taint Rand would not have heard Lews Therin's voice. Without the manifestation of Lews Therin Rand would not have needed reintegration.

 

That's why I specifically utilized "Rand Therin" not RaT or LTT.

 

IMO, the DR's understanding/emergence would have occurred seamlessly and nearly contemperaneously with each other if not for the taint. In a taint-free turning, when the DRs memories would have begun to emerge, the "wisdom" to deal with it would have emerged as well. What happened in the story's particular turning would not have happened but for the taint

 

That being said, any instance where Rand faced the voice would have resulted in both disintegration and the need for reintegration. There is not situation in which the manifestation of Lews Therin would be welcomed without the resultant potential decent into madness.

 

Is that from an interview or notes or something?

[Thrasymachus]

Remembering his previous incarnations isn't what makes the Dragon Reborn special. In other words, Rand's remembering being Lews Therin, and the intermediary steps where he has sporadic access to Lews Therin's memories and experiences Lews Therin's voice, aren't an essential aspect of being the Dragon Reborn. Rand's access of those memories and his experience of hearing the voice of Lews Therin, culminating in his reintegration in Veins of Gold, are manifestations of the Taint. Without the Taint, Rand would not have had the memories, would not have gone mad from the experience of Lews Therin's voice and memories, and would not have the particular epiphany of reintegration with those memories that produced Rand Sedai. He may (and probably would) have required some other kind of epiphany that may have resulted in a personality very like Rand Sedai, but without the memory of all the previous lives he's lived.

 

In Randland, souls live multiple lives, technically, an infinite number of them. There's plenty of evidence that memories from previous lives "bleed through" to the currently lived one. Typically, these result in feelings of deja vu or spontaneous exclamations with no understanding of the meaning behind them. Occasionally, more robust memories surface, and are sufficiently vivid, compelling and contrary to current experience as to break the mind of the person suffering from them, resulting in multiple personalities or hearing voices. It is this kind of madness the Taint has induced in Rand. Birgitte is the only person to have full awareness of even one of the previous lives lived without having a mental break as a result, and this is because she was thrown untimely from the waiting room for special souls. Souls reborn normally are not supposed to remember their previous lives, even very special souls.

 

Rand didn't become fully the Dragon Reborn after his epiphany on Dragonmount. He was fully the Dragon Reborn on the day he was born on the slopes of Dragonmount, and has been every day since then. He has always been Lews Therin, and Lews Therin was always Rand. Rand didn't become more "Dragon Rebornish" when he realized this. He just stopped battling with himself. Possessing the memories of the previous Dragon isn't what makes someone the Dragon Reborn, even accepting those memories as one's own isn't what does it. If Rand used some ter'angreal that worked like the Aiel's glass columns and transferred his Lews Therin memories to Moridin, that wouldn't make Moridin the Dragon Reborn, even if Moridin had some sort of identity crisis as a result and integrated the Lews Therin memories with his own personality as a previously lived life.

 

In short, without the Taint, Rand wouldn't have had Lews Therin's memories and wouldn't have experienced Lews Therin's voice. He wouldn't have needed the particular epiphany of reintegrating those memories with his own personality, but he may still have required some kind of epiphany in order to do the Dragon Reborn's job of resealing the Dark One. But even without the Taint, the memories, the voice and the results of the reintegration, Rand is still, and always has been, the Dragon Reborn.

[Suttree]

Birgitte is the only person to have full awareness of even one of the previous lives lived without having a mental break as a result, and this is because she was thrown untimely from the waiting room for special souls. Souls reborn normally are not supposed to remember their previous lives, even very special souls.

 

Yup, further proof of this being Birgitte losing her memories as the pattern tries to weave her in. Although being thrown from Tar because she is a hero is a different place than the normal "waiting room". As she says souls aren't supposed to know their previous lives and although it is a boon she has "no right" to those memories.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Suttree

[Thrasymachus]

Yes, Birgitte does attribute her memory loss to the Pattern trying to enforce it's "no previous-life memories" rule. I don't consider this further proof of anything, though, because it's possible she's wrong. It could be a result of being a girl and bonded as a warder to another girl, for all we know. I don't believe that, just throwing it out there as a possible alternative explanation. It may be that the Pattern doesn't have a specific "no previous-life memories" rule, and people don't tend to remember their previous lives because of the specifics about how they're reborn. And I know that Tel aran'Rhiod isn't the normal waiting room for normal souls waiting to be reborn, that's why I called it, "the waiting room for special souls." Which it is, among other things.

[Durinax]

Yes, Birgitte does attribute her memory loss to the Pattern trying to enforce it's "no previous-life memories" rule. I don't consider this further proof of anything, though, because it's possible she's wrong. It could be a result of being a girl and bonded as a warder to another girl, for all we know. I don't believe that, just throwing it out there as a possible alternative explanation. It may be that the Pattern doesn't have a specific "no previous-life memories" rule, and people don't tend to remember their previous lives because of the specifics about how they're reborn. And I know that Tel aran'Rhiod isn't the normal waiting room for normal souls waiting to be reborn, that's why I called it, "the waiting room for special souls." Which it is, among other things.

it probably isn't a specific rule, but rather a side effect of becoming (essentially) mortal

[Suttree]

And I know that Tel aran'Rhiod isn't the normal waiting room for normal souls waiting to be reborn, that's why I called it, "the waiting room for special souls." Which it is, among other things.

 

Didn't mean to imply that, was just throwing it out there again and noting the difference as it may have some bearing on the situation.

[Thrasymachus]

It may, since Lews Therin would have been chillin in Tel aran'Rhiod before Janduin injected him into Tigraine, but I doubt it, because I like to be skeptical about such things. :P

 

At any rate, weak past life memory leakage appears to be at least somewhat common, and relatively tolerable, whereas strong past life memory leakage typically results in fractured, sometimes warring personalities. Without the taint, Rand may have experienced some weak past life memory leakage, yelling battle-cries in the Old Tongue, being a quick study in channeling, being innately good with the sword, but would lack specific awareness of detailed experiences. With the taint, he got full-on past-life memory hemorrhages, and his mind broke, resulting in the previous personality projected by that soul leaking through.

 

Hell, if you look at all the stuff that's happened to him, his mind might have broke naturally, resulting in Lews Therin coming through with maybe fewer memories. I mean, outrunning packs of darkhounds and murdering darkfriends on his own for weeks on end, becoming leader of a whole people and having half those people decide they'd rather quit than follow him, or being locked in a trunk and taken out at regular intervals to be beaten (after he thought he was king of the world), or having the world's hottest women variously throw themselves at him or snub him, I'd be manifesting multiple personalities by that point too.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Thrasymachus

[Terez]

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means.

 

The debate has always suffered from semantics issues. The 'realers' are generally people who have a hard time making distinctions, taking the clear reality of Lews Therin's memories too far. It's what RJ intended—readers accepted Rand's interpretation without questioning it really—and the fact that he was able to pull it off was one of his greatest accomplishments, along with hiding Verin's mission in plain sight. You can argue about it all day, but as long as you recognize that 1) Lews Therin's memories were effectively Rand's memories, and 2) the 'voice' and its accompanying delusions were byproducts of taint madness, then you're all good.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Terez

[Luckers]

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means.

 

The debate has always suffered from semantics issues. The 'realers' are generally people who have a hard time making distinctions, taking the clear reality of Lews Therin's memories too far. It's what RJ intended—readers accepted Rand's interpretation without questioning it really—and the fact that he was able to pull it off was one of his greatest accomplishments, along with hiding Verin's mission in plain sight. You can argue about it all day, but as long as you recognize that 1) Lews Therin's memories were effectively Rand's memories, and 2) the 'voice' and its accompanying delusions were byproducts of taint madness, then you're all good.

 

I don't know about other 'realers' but I questioned Rand's assertions in great detail, and I have little problem with making distinctions. You claim the memories are real. You claim that Rand constructed a personality around those memories, and called it Lews Therin. Thus, you claim that the voice is not real, whilst the memories are.

 

Semirhage claimed that you are wrong. Lews Therin claimed that she rarely lies. This holds true in an analysis of her comments, including those which she should have no basis for knowing outside an abstract understanding of those with Rand's condition, as she stated Graendal provided her with, and thus I agree with Semirhage, Rand and Lews Therin's claims.

[Vardar]

The severing of the link between worlds happened when the gateway melted.

 

I've thought that ever since I read the passage in the first place (after the initial shock of what I just read wore off anyway). I'm kind of surprised with how many people wouldn't accept that idea over the years.

 

It just doesn't make much sense that's why. It's not like you just can't walk to the tower and make the triangle and walk in. So what did the doorway really do? Allow easier access. So, since it's an actual world, or perhaps another plane of existence, why would the bond snap. At that point it's just distance. Would it snap if she used the portal stone without him? So I mean I understood where he was going with it, I assumed that was the answer, but at the end of the day, it left me with a bad feeling because it didn't make much sense to me. That's all.

[Vardar]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

Now that is something that could be soundly debated. I'd argue that the voice in your head would only make a weak willed person go crazy, especially knowing it was real.

 

Still interesting knowledge.

[Vardar]

It may, since Lews Therin would have been chillin in Tel aran'Rhiod before Janduin injected him into Tigraine, but I doubt it, because I like to be skeptical about such things. :P

 

LOL! So wrong.

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means.

 

The debate has always suffered from semantics issues. The 'realers' are generally people who have a hard time making distinctions, taking the clear reality of Lews Therin's memories too far. It's what RJ intended—readers accepted Rand's interpretation without questioning it really—and the fact that he was able to pull it off was one of his greatest accomplishments, along with hiding Verin's mission in plain sight. You can argue about it all day, but as long as you recognize that 1) Lews Therin's memories were effectively Rand's memories, and 2) the 'voice' and its accompanying delusions were byproducts of taint madness, then you're all good.

 

I don't know about other 'realers' but I questioned Rand's assertions in great detail, and I have little problem with making distinctions. You claim the memories are real. You claim that Rand constructed a personality around those memories, and called it Lews Therin. Thus, you claim that the voice is not real, whilst the memories are.

 

Semirhage claimed that you are wrong. Lews Therin claimed that she rarely lies. This holds true in an analysis of her comments, including those which she should have no basis for knowing outside an abstract understanding of those with Rand's condition, as she stated Graendal provided her with, and thus I agree with Semirhage, Rand and Lews Therin's claims.

 

 

Ok I wish to read this thread now. Where is it? Because what is a soul (A person) but a collection of memories?

[Knivy]

Without the taint's madness, would Rand have been able to cope with another man suddenly appearing in his head? I believe the taint shielded him from even greater madness.

 

Firstly, the taint is not a madness, the taint causes madness. It basically works as a catalyst--this is why we see so many different types of madness, and why we see different time frames in their manifestation. So natural forms of insanity--of which the manifestation of a past life voice is--occur due to exposure to the Taint.

 

The answer to your question is no, there would have been no difference between what occured to Rand under the Taint than if Lews Therin had manifested naturally. Except that Lews Therin probably wouldn't have maifested naturally without the Taint any more than Morr would have had a reversion to childhood without the Taint.

I didnt mean to say the taint=madness, i meant the madness the taint caused. Sorry, I am not very good at articulating my thoughts, as you probably have learned from the posts i have contributed.

Remembering his previous incarnations isn't what makes the Dragon Reborn special. In other words, Rand's remembering being Lews Therin, and the intermediary steps where he has sporadic access to Lews Therin's memories and experiences Lews Therin's voice, aren't an essential aspect of being the Dragon Reborn. Rand's access of those memories and his experience of hearing the voice of Lews Therin, culminating in his reintegration in Veins of Gold, are manifestations of the Taint. Without the Taint, Rand would not have had the memories, would not have gone mad from the experience of Lews Therin's voice and memories, and would not have the particular epiphany of reintegration with those memories that produced Rand Sedai. He may (and probably would) have required some other kind of epiphany that may have resulted in a personality very like Rand Sedai, but without the memory of all the previous lives he's lived.

 

In Randland, souls live multiple lives, technically, an infinite number of them. There's plenty of evidence that memories from previous lives "bleed through" to the currently lived one. Typically, these result in feelings of deja vu or spontaneous exclamations with no understanding of the meaning behind them. Occasionally, more robust memories surface, and are sufficiently vivid, compelling and contrary to current experience as to break the mind of the person suffering from them, resulting in multiple personalities or hearing voices. It is this kind of madness the Taint has induced in Rand. Birgitte is the only person to have full awareness of even one of the previous lives lived without having a mental break as a result, and this is because she was thrown untimely from the waiting room for special souls. Souls reborn normally are not supposed to remember their previous lives, even very special souls.

 

Rand didn't become fully the Dragon Reborn after his epiphany on Dragonmount. He was fully the Dragon Reborn on the day he was born on the slopes of Dragonmount, and has been every day since then. He has always been Lews Therin, and Lews Therin was always Rand. Rand didn't become more "Dragon Rebornish" when he realized this. He just stopped battling with himself. Possessing the memories of the previous Dragon isn't what makes someone the Dragon Reborn, even accepting those memories as one's own isn't what does it. If Rand used some ter'angreal that worked like the Aiel's glass columns and transferred his Lews Therin memories to Moridin, that wouldn't make Moridin the Dragon Reborn, even if Moridin had some sort of identity crisis as a result and integrated the Lews Therin memories with his own personality as a previously lived life.

 

In short, without the Taint, Rand wouldn't have had Lews Therin's memories and wouldn't have experienced Lews Therin's voice. He wouldn't have needed the particular epiphany of reintegrating those memories with his own personality, but he may still have required some kind of epiphany in order to do the Dragon Reborn's job of resealing the Dark One. But even without the Taint, the memories, the voice and the results of the reintegration, Rand is still, and always has been, the Dragon Reborn.

I believe this.

[Luckers]

Read the Lews Therin: Our Friendly Neighbourhood Madman thread in my Wot FAQ and Theories listing, linked in my sig and at the top of the board.

 

Now that is something that could be soundly debated. I'd argue that the voice in your head would only make a weak willed person go crazy, especially knowing it was real.

 

Actually I don't particularily regard it as something that could be soundly debated. To quote Semirhage: "It makes no difference that his voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice. I understand the descent into terminal madness can be . . . abrupt."

[Vardar]

Read the Lews Therin: Our Friendly Neighbourhood Madman thread in my Wot FAQ and Theories listing, linked in my sig and at the top of the board.

 

Now that is something that could be soundly debated. I'd argue that the voice in your head would only make a weak willed person go crazy, especially knowing it was real.

 

Actually I don't particularily regard it as something that could be soundly debated. To quote Semirhage: "It makes no difference that his voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice. I understand the descent into terminal madness can be . . . abrupt."

 

I meant more along the lines of, why would having a person in your head make you go crazy things. If it was a real voice, something has to make you snap right? It can't hurt you physically. It's more along the lines of torture, some people die without ever going crazy or giving up secrets, thus my weak willed comment, although I suppose I should instead say, a person who is extremely strong willed shouldn't go crazy from a mere voice in their mind.

[Luckers]

Read the Lews Therin: Our Friendly Neighbourhood Madman thread in my Wot FAQ and Theories listing, linked in my sig and at the top of the board.

 

Now that is something that could be soundly debated. I'd argue that the voice in your head would only make a weak willed person go crazy, especially knowing it was real.

 

Actually I don't particularily regard it as something that could be soundly debated. To quote Semirhage: "It makes no difference that his voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice. I understand the descent into terminal madness can be . . . abrupt."

 

I meant more along the lines of, why would having a person in your head make you go crazy things. If it was a real voice, something has to make you snap right? It can't hurt you physically. It's more along the lines of torture, some people die without ever going crazy or giving up secrets, thus my weak willed comment, although I suppose I should instead say, a person who is extremely strong willed shouldn't go crazy from a mere voice in their mind.

 

And yet Semirhage states that they do, if they cannot achieve reintegration. Having two manifest facet personalities clearly destabalizes the mental state--we see it with Rand, and Semirhage makes clear his case, though rare, is not singular.

[Vardar]

Read the Lews Therin: Our Friendly Neighbourhood Madman thread in my Wot FAQ and Theories listing, linked in my sig and at the top of the board.

 

Now that is something that could be soundly debated. I'd argue that the voice in your head would only make a weak willed person go crazy, especially knowing it was real.

 

Actually I don't particularily regard it as something that could be soundly debated. To quote Semirhage: "It makes no difference that his voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice. I understand the descent into terminal madness can be . . . abrupt."

 

I meant more along the lines of, why would having a person in your head make you go crazy things. If it was a real voice, something has to make you snap right? It can't hurt you physically. It's more along the lines of torture, some people die without ever going crazy or giving up secrets, thus my weak willed comment, although I suppose I should instead say, a person who is extremely strong willed shouldn't go crazy from a mere voice in their mind.

 

And yet Semirhage states that they do, if they cannot achieve reintegration. Having two manifest facet personalities clearly destabalizes the mental state--we see it with Rand, and Semirhage makes clear his case, though rare, is not singular.

 

Yea I'm reading your theory now, I kinda see what you're saying in, cases of the book or series, if someone states something, then we hold it as true.

 

I was more going along the lines of, why would a mere voice make you go crazy, seems like a weakness you already had. (Especially considering you could "Tune it out" as Rand shows)

[Luckers]

I was more going along the lines of, why would a mere voice make you go crazy, seems like a weakness you already had. (Especially considering you could "Tune it out" as Rand shows)

 

Because there is nothing 'mere' about it. We are talking about a whole other personality manifesting in your head--to the extent that it can channel on your behalf. Your basically making the same mistake about mental health that has been made throughout history, and that is not knowing a mental state you look at it in terms of your own experience of the world and cannot understand why it's significant. The same way people regard someone suffering depression say 'well, I don't see how merely feeling a bit down is a debilitating illness', so too you think to yourself that a rational person, knowingly hearing a real voice in his head should surely be capable of dealing with it--but what Semirhage has stated is that no, he can't. Any more than the depressed person can realise that they're feeling sad and just do stuff that makes them happy.

 

That is the core of what mental illness is. And Rand shows perfectly how mentally destabalizing that is. Had Cadsuane not intervened the world would have burned.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Luckers
added stuff

[Vardar]

I was more going along the lines of, why would a mere voice make you go crazy, seems like a weakness you already had. (Especially considering you could "Tune it out" as Rand shows)

 

Because there is nothing 'mere' about it. We are talking about a whole other personality manifesting in your head--to the extent that it can channel on your behalf. Your basically making the same mistake about mental health that has been made throughout history, and that is not knowing a mental state you look at it in terms of your own experience of the world and cannot understand why it's significant. The same way people regard someone suffering depression say 'well, I don't see how merely feeling a bit down is a debilitating illness', so too you think to yourself that a rational person, knowingly hearing a real voice in his head should surely be capable of dealing with it--but what Semirhage has stated is that no, he can't. Any more than the depressed person can realise that they're feeling sad and just do stuff that makes them happy.

 

That is the core of what mental illness is. And Rand shows perfectly how mentally destabalizing that is. Had Cadsuane not intervened the world would have burned.

 

I think you're reading too much into my statement. Especially with your depression part, I understand it's a mental illness, like OCD, but I also understand as a mental illness, it can be overcome (In some cases, not all cases).

 

Yes she stated it, so in the terms of the book that makes it true, however in terms of real world applications, there would have been people who dealt with it on their own. Every illness has cases like that, especially mental illnesses. Now at this point, the debate would be, well those who broke free obviously suffered from a lesser example of the aforementioned illness, however this isn't always the case.

 

It's just like pain. What's crippling to one person, isn't to another.

 

But yes, at the end of the day it is a mere voice. I.E. it's just a voice and nothing physical about it, thus a mere voice. The channeling for him I'll give you, but it couldn't walk/talk for him. And unless all those cases Semi referred too were channelers, even that aspect is gone, really meaning it's only a voice. At the end of the day, voices in your head, like the voices outside, don't have to be listened too. No I'm not attempting to belittle people who suffer from illnesses, I'm just stating facts, how I see them. People have claimed insanity from listening to voices in their real life, outside their head, when they commited a crime, and gotten off on it. Same logic applies.

[Luckers]

I understand it's a mental illness, like OCD, but I also understand as a mental illness, it can be overcome (In some cases, not all cases).

 

But yes, at the end of the day it is a mere voice. I.E. it's just a voice and nothing physical about it, thus a mere voice.

 

At the end of the day, voices in your head, like the voices outside, don't have to be listened too.

 

No I'm not attempting to belittle people who suffer from illnesses, I'm just stating facts, how I see them.

 

You clearly understand very little about mental illness.

[Vardar]

I understand it's a mental illness, like OCD, but I also understand as a mental illness, it can be overcome (In some cases, not all cases).

 

But yes, at the end of the day it is a mere voice. I.E. it's just a voice and nothing physical about it, thus a mere voice.

 

At the end of the day, voices in your head, like the voices outside, don't have to be listened too.

 

No I'm not attempting to belittle people who suffer from illnesses, I'm just stating facts, how I see them.

 

You clearly understand very little about mental illness.

 

Cleary I do.

 

I said not everyone has the ability to overcome their illness mentally, however it can be overcame. Normally I'd tell you to point out one mental illness where no one was able to overcome it, just one, but that would accomplish nothing. However would like you to point out where I was wrong in those statements above.

 

Is the voice physical? Can it do physical harm? Am I wrong in my comparrison to a voice outside your head, i.e. the people who commit mass murder because someone else hounded them until they did it.

 

Are you implying OCD cannot be overcame without the aid of drugs? (This one I know for a lie, because I deal with it myself, same with depression).

 

Better yet, we can finish this topic in PM, as it has no place here.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Vardarmus

[thisguy]

Schizophrenia is not curable, you can only treat it. Moreover, we're not talking about mental illness, we're talking about a personality that once lived and shares the mind and body of another person who does live. I think even a very strong minded person would be freaked out, to say the least.

Edited July 30, 2012 by thisguy