Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[NetSlider]

Yeah, it does make sense. Thanks  :)

[Casabamelon]

Are we certain that rand in fact used the "true power" from the dark one to break the bonds or could it have been some kind of "light version" of the true power - i.E. the true light power that has its source from the creator instead of the DO?

The One Power (True Source) is the "light version" of the True Power.

 

The True Power is begotten from the Dark One. The True Source is begotten from the Creator.

I had been under the impression that what I said was fact (I know, first time ever someone did this on the boards). I went to the WOT Encyclopedia to check my facts, and sure enough, it's the "Driving force of Creation", but not explicitly stated as coming from the creator. I shall concede the point on a technicality.  :P

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/main/true_source/

 

This is an opinion, not a "fact."  We don't know with 100% surety that the OP comes from the Creator.  We do know that the OP was used by the Creator to create the Wheel of Time and the Universe (or, the Earth).  I assume this statement is correct, but it can't be stated as fact, only as opinion.

[yoniy0]

It doesn't matter if it's not the essence of the Creator. The OP is the Light's version of the TP, it's the power that drives creation, as opposed to the one that destroys it (everything done with the TP is done through the shredding of the Pattern).

That's the way we good guys do it. We don't need one omnipotent Power. We like our convoluted mechanisms that require us to cooperate with each other in order to achieve greatness.

[RMosack]

Hello.  New poster! 

 

I read somewhere earlier in this mega thread where it was stated that Ishy actually planted the idea of the Dragon Reborn kneeling to the Seanchan Crystal Throne into their version of the prophecies. 

 

Is that speculation or is it actually mentioned somewhere in the series?  I simply don't recall ever reading that. 

[yoniy0]

Is that speculation or is it actually mentioned somewhere in the series?  I simply don't recall ever reading that. 

No, we got that from interviews. Not literally, I think, just that he tempered with their prophecies, which we took as a good explanation for that inconsistency.

If you want a good place for catching up with interviews and such, I just recommended a database Terez made on TheoryLand in a post I made on some other thread:

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

I don't know if it's the only database out there, just one I found useful.

[Sharaman]

There's a PoV when a Seanchan guy thinks that the prophesies in Randland have been corrupted because they don't mention the DR kneeling before the Crystal Throne. (WH perhaps?) as the "pure" prophesies of Luthair Hawkwing do.

We know that Ishamel tampered with the Seanchan prophesies.

So this is probably RJ being ironic and letting readers know that the Seanchan prophesies are corrupted.

The other possibility is that this is a genuine Dark Prophesy that Elan mixed into the Seanchan version.

 

 

[yoniy0]

I think he was asking where we got the 'tempering' from.

In any case, it doesn't have to be REAL prophecy to come true. Just the fact that Fortuona believes in it might make Rand comply to avoid the argument. Sort of a self-fulfilling-prophecy (literally :)).

[Sharaman]

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/prohecies-of-dragon.html has a nice section

There's a quote "The Prophecies of the Dragon had been known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag began the Consolidation. In corrupted form, it was said, much different from the pure version Luthair Paendrag brought. Miraj had seen several volumes of The Karaethon Cycle printed in these lands, and they were corrupted too - not one of them mentioned him serving the Crystal Throne! - but the Prophecies held men's minds and hearts still."

(TPoD)

Nice analysis showing why Ishamel was probably responsible.

 

 

[CUBAREY]

Is that speculation or is it actually mentioned somewhere in the series?  I simply don't recall ever reading that. 

 

As stated previously we know that Seanchen prophecy calls for the Dragon to kneal to the Empress. We know from the BWB that Ishy corrupted the Seanchen Prophecies. so it seems pretty clear that it was Ishy who placed that into the Seanchen Propheciies.

[mb]

Just to make sure::

 

Graendal; when she died, would the people out of her palace (that went through her Compulsion) still do any 'unfinished' orders that she gave to them or were they completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

Verin; when she died, would the White Tower Aes Sedia be still sworn to Rand (and still do any other 'unfinished' orders Verin gave them) or were they also completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

[ed2funy]

It depends when they got the compulsion orders.

If it was a long time ago, then probably yes.

if they just left, like that idiot guy, then no, it would be gone.

 

I think it stays. When she let go of the Power, it didn't disappear, so her dying won't cancel it either. The weave is set in there.

 

Does Whitebrigde crumble because the AS who helped build it are dead?

 

;D Hope that is good.

[OptimusPrime]

Graendal; when she died, would the people out of her palace (that went through her Compulsion) still do any 'unfinished' orders that she gave to them or were they completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

My guess is that if it was indeed Graendal then anyone under her Compulsions would be completely free because she technically never put it on them because of the balefire.

 

Verin; when she died, would the White Tower Aes Sedia be still sworn to Rand (and still do any other 'unfinished' orders Verin gave them) or were they also completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

My guess is that Verins Compulsion would still be there even after she died because Compulsion doesnt seem to be something you must maintain. I suppose it would depend on the command; if she Compelled someone to spy on someone else for Verins benefit, and then Verin died and the Compelled person knew she was dead, they would no longer spy on the other person I think.

 

 

[ed2funy]

Graendal; when she died, would the people out of her palace (that went through her Compulsion) still do any 'unfinished' orders that she gave to them or were they completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

My guess is that if it was indeed Graendal then anyone under her Compulsions would be completely free because she technically never put it on them because of the balefire.

 

It all depends on when those people were Compelled. Even Rand could only balefire her so far back. Some of those slaves have been there for a long time.

 

Verin; when she died, would the White Tower Aes Sedia be still sworn to Rand (and still do any other 'unfinished' orders Verin gave them) or were they also completely free from her Compulsion at her death?

 

My guess is that Verins Compulsion would still be there even after she died because Compulsion doesnt seem to be something you must maintain. I suppose it would depend on the command; if she Compelled someone to spy on someone else for Verins benefit, and then Verin died and the Compelled person knew she was dead, they would no longer spy on the other person I think.

 

I think if the person is strong in the mind (we saw Morgase do it), and Verin's isn't even the real thing.

But I doubt it. :-\

[a5m]

In the Gathering Storm, both Suan and Egwane mention that the original twisted stone ring was controlled by the hall and, by the end of the book, was stolen by the Black Ajah. I distinctly remember the original stone ring and one copy were taken with Nyneave and Elaine to Ebou Dar. When did the original ring get back to the Salidar Hall so that it could be stolen by Sheriam?

[ed2funy]

I thought Elayne took copies because she could make them. And they kept the original. That is why later they had so many. Or didn't Siuan keep it?

[a5m]

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/twisted_ring.html

 

Since the encyclopaedia lists all the references of the first 11 books, I have to assume that it is a mistake in the Gathering Storm. I thought I might be wrong so that's why I asked the question. When the the original end up back with the Hall from Salidar?

[BladeDancer]

Do we know whether Thom and a young Moraine ever met when Thom was Court Bard and Bard for House Trakand? Moraine was raised to the Shawl and was not close to Taringail but is there any indication that she ever visited her half-brother Taringail in Caemlyn and might have encountered a younger Thom? Was Moraine at the wedding of Taringail and Morgase? This was before the Aiel War so perhaps Moraine was still Accepted and thus prevented from attending but there is still a chance - after all Royal Weddings involving close relatives do not happen everyday.

 

Also Moraine must have known Tigraine when she was young as Tigraine was married to Taringail. Tigraine has been gone for a long time but other folks have noticed the physical resemblance between the two and Tigraine disappeared about the same time Moraine went to the White Tower.  Has there been any hints that Moraine had guessed that Rand is Tigraine's son due to the physical resemblance? Has there been any hints about Moraine's relationship with Tigraine? Did Moraine like Tigraine or know her well?

[mb]

After the discussion towards the end of Chapter 44 (or after being drilled about her Viewings), did Min reconsider her thought about Moiraine's Viewings being failed?

 

[TheTraveler]

Hello, All!!  TheTraveler here, new to WoT and new to Dragonmount.  I have a question that's been bothering the crap out of me for months and I know that one of you Collam Daan initiates can help me.  It's not PURELY tGS related, but it is about Moridin/Ishy.  Forgive me if this has been answered 4,500 times before.

 

How can Moridin/Ishy/Elan have been free of his entrapment within the Seal in order to first confront Lews Therin in the prologue of tEotW?  It struck me when Rand sat down for his fireside chat with Moridin in the fireplace room from Rand's earliest tEotW nightmares.  "The Dark One and All of his Forsaken were sealed away..." the little liturgy the boys repeat to make themselves feel better?  Well, if Moridin/Ishy/Elan/the Betrayer of Hope are all the same person, how did he get free to come torment Lews Therin if all of the other Forsaken were stuck in stasis for the next 3000 years?

 

What am I missing???

 

~TheTraveler

[OptimusPrime]

Does the fact that Semirhage wanted to cause Rand pain before leaving with him, while still in the middle of his entourage, count as a screw up or not?

[Javonite]

What am I missing???

 

He wasn't completely trapped, as some of the characters in the books have realised / pointed out. And they think that's the reason he seems to have gone mad.

 

You missed one of his names, Ba'alzamon. ;)

[Morsker]

Does the fact that Semirhage wanted to cause Rand pain before leaving with him, while still in the middle of his entourage, count as a screw up or not?

Well it's certainly in-character for her. She's a sadist, and couldn't resist her sadistic impulses in the AoL even when it got her in a great deal of trouble. The only problem I have with it in this case is that she'd probably be able to resist, and just get Rand kidnapped asap, if that's what Shadar Haran told her to do.

[jemron]

What am I missing???

 

He wasn't completely trapped, as some of the characters in the books have realised / pointed out. And they think that's the reason he seems to have gone mad.

 

You missed one of his names, Ba'alzamon. ;)

 

According to the BWB (the Big White Book, called "The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time") and a few other sources mentioned in the series, it has been inferred that Ishy was a special case.  He wasn't entirely sealed like the other Forsaken, he was "spun out" of his entrapment every 40 years or so and freed for a time to continue to influence and effect the world in a negative way.  Ishamael, over the course of those 3000 years, was being spun out every 40 years, and going crazy bonkers from his on-again/off-again exposure to the world and his use of the TP, and he eventually began to believe that he was in-fact the Dark One.  He started to call himself Ba'lzamon (sp?) and he continued keeping control over various darkfriend groups, including the Black Ajah.  He kept those dark organizations together over a 3000 year period.

 

He was responsible for "whispering in Artur Hawkwing's ear" during one of those out-of-prison experiences, and that is what caused Hawkwing to kinda go all paranoid on Aes Sedai at the end of his life.  Ishy was also responsible for warping the Seanchan versions of the Prophecies of the Dragon, which eventually led to them thinking that Rand needs to bow to the Crystal Throne, but in reality, the true prophecies say that the Nine Moons will be bound to him.

 

He wasn't entirely lying to the boys in the first few books when he told them in their dreams that he was actually the one who was responsible for certain false Dragons like Roalin Darksbane and Guiare Amalasan (sp?), etc...

 

It is because of Ishy's continued dedication for 3000 year to the DO that he was given such power and influence in the current age as the prison again began to weaken and the DO gained some of his influence back...

 

Phew.  Does that answer your questions?

[mb]

After the discussion towards the end of Chapter 44 (or after being drilled about her Viewings), did Min reconsider her thought about Moiraine's Viewings being failed?

 

How were the Blacks executed (balefire, non-balefire weave, non-channeling method)?

 

[Crael123]

After the discussion towards the end of Chapter 44 (or after being drilled about her Viewings), did Min reconsider her thought about Moiraine's Viewings being failed?

 

How were the Blacks executed (balefire, non-balefire weave, non-channeling method)?

 

 

blacks were decapitated. and min did not reconsider she still thinks moiraine was her only failure