Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Tiinker]

I've always wondered about the three ta'veren from the Two Rivers. As BS said at some point (or was it RJ?), the "Ishamael soul" is often spun out as a twin soul to the Dragon. Is there any information if it is the same thing with Mat and Perrin?

 

I'm not sure I get the question. Are you talking about each of them separately?

[yoniy0]

No, he means the three of them together. To answer the question, this time was prophesized (is that a real word anyway?), but I'm aware of no additional information relevant to your question (aside from the fact that if Mat and Perrin were around the last time around, we don't know who they were).

[rebma55]

I've always wondered about the three ta'veren from the Two Rivers. As BS said at some point (or was it RJ?), the "Ishamael soul" is often spun out as a twin soul to the Dragon. Is there any information if it is the same thing with Mat and Perrin?

 

I'm not sure I get the question. Are you talking about each of them separately?

My first thought reading this was that the question was is there a dark twin soul spun out for the other two ta'veren.

 

As far as I can tell there aren't any other instances in the history where three ta'veren are spun out at the same time. None of the other forsaken are as obsessed with them like Ishamael/Moridin is about Rand. I wonder though, have they been ta'veren in their past lives, and if they have do all ta'veren have a 'dark' soul to balance the pattern? Interesting.

[NitroS]

Lan fear says there is 2 but she only knows that 1 is still around and since shes been locked up for 3000 years and moraine has all the knowledge of aes sedai and the white tower we can assume that moraine is right.

 

Actually it's the other way around, except for some recently invented weaves that didn't exist in the AoL, The Forsaken are continuously shown to know far more about the power than modern Aes Sedai.

Your saying that you think that lan fear would know more about what had happened to all the items of the one power when she was inprisoned in a sleep for 3000 years over the amyrlin seat of the white tower who have been keeping tabs and collecting items of the one power since its forming.

 

In our reading time of 2 years 2 sar angreal have been destroyed, with the obvious 100,000s of items of the one power that would have been destroyed during the breaking and lost over the next 3000 years and lan fear not knowing if it existed, and assuming during the breaking the women aes sedai would have tryed to destroy any male sar angreal they could find to stop the mad male aes sedai from destroying the world with it (couldnt do this with callandor cause it wasnt able to be touched besides the dragon).

 

Lan fear said she knows there were 2 more powerful 1 that still exists, so she doesnt even know if the other survived the breaking.

[mb]

If the other was destroyed, the Breaking might not have been the only time for it to have been destroyed.

Or if it was destroyed during the Breaking, saidar channelers might not have been the only candidates. Not sure if a saidar channeler could tell if an angreal/sa'angreal requires saidin.

 

Lanfear's comment does not narrow down the "when" or the "who" or even the "if".

[Callern]

Ah, sorry, to rephrase my question: Whether or not Mat and Perrin is bound to the Dragon too. But yoniy0 got my question right. Thanks for answering :)

About the balance tho, I don't have the impression that there has to be a balance between good and evil in the weave itself? I always thought of it as a balance in the universe, with the DO himself as one of the extremes?

In other words, the DO touching the Wheel is in itself, is unbalanced. A 'dark' ta'veren would not be possible?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Zlith

[Terez]

RJ said it's possible, but not likely as he can't think of any use the Wheel would have for making a Darkfriend ta'veren. The dark side has the Dark One on its side; the ta'veren are a counter to that.

[Sid]

In Aviendha's first vision as Malidra in ToM, the "Folk" are mentioned. They're in about the same sad situation as the Aiel at this point. Is it generally assumed that this is what remains of the Sea Folk? I've never seen it mentioned here on Dragonmount one way or the other.

[Hopebringer]

Have come to the chapter in ToM where Perrin uses the wolf dream to scout out the Whitecloak's camp. It reads suspiciously like Tel'aran'rhiod - are they the same thing?

Read a few chapters more, about 3/4 of the book or more, and you will get your answer. :)

I'll just go ahead and answer - Yes, they're the same.

Indeed, Egwene sees Perrin in tel'aran'rhiod as soon TDR (no need to look for confirmation in ToM, but it is there if you prefer).

 

Although it seems not really 100% the same thing. When Perrin later meets Birgitte in Tel'aran'rhiod he is with Hopper. However Hopper does not see Birgitte and Birgitte does not seem to see Hopper. This means they are somehow the same and somehow not ;)

[Hopebringer]

Does anyone know if RJ did choose the name "Lanfear" on purpose for somehow "the only thing Lan would ever fear"?

 

Some pages earlier it was mentioned that commoners often have "easy" names. Are there any occurrences of more then one person having the same name? Only things that comes to my mind is Melaine wanting to name their children after Min and Egwene. Is there more?

[Hopebringer]

The second time Aviendha goes to Rhuidean she sees the future of her descendants.

 

Do we know if the Wise Ones always saw the future when going there, or is this a recent change - and the Wise Ones did just see the past of their ancestors?

[MasterAblar]

The second time Aviendha goes to Rhuidean she sees the future of her descendants.

 

Do we know if the Wise Ones always saw the future when going there, or is this a recent change - and the Wise Ones did just see the past of their ancestors?

 

No they only saw the past. Aviendha went through a first time and saw the past but changed something with the terangreal and went through a second time seeing the future this time around.

[yoniy0]

In Aviendha's first vision as Malidra in ToM, the "Folk" are mentioned.

I'm quite certain the Folk are the Aiel. I didn't yet convert my Kindle book to pdf, so I can't conveniently quote the relevant parts (it's a rather long scene for manual quoting), but perhaps I'll do so later today.

 

Although it seems not really 100% the same thing. When Perrin later meets Birgitte in Tel'aran'rhiod he is with Hopper. However Hopper does not see Birgitte and Birgitte does not seem to see Hopper. This means they are somehow the same and somehow not ;)

I don't think so. It's not the only time we saw that the Heroes in TAR can hide their presence at will (as to Hopper not seeing Birgitte), but Birgitte definitely could see Hopper:

Her eyes widened, and she glanced at Hopper, who still lay stretched out on the grass ignoring her and watching Perrin. "You can talk to wolves?[...]"

I see no reason to assume the two are any different.

[Red2111]

so i have another question

 

i noticed something interesting on this re-read or tDR. in all the city's where a Forsaken had a strong hold; the people complained of bad dreams. also, Rand effected peoples dreams as well. Moriane mentions something about Be'lal being too sure of himself to shield his dreams; so i'm wondering how dream projection played a part with channelers.

 

 

like, is it only strong channelers which can project their dreams onto others, or does it have to do with their ability to enter T'A'R without the aid of a terangreal. or is this something only to do with Sidian, or can all channelers do this if they don't shield their dreams. if it is something of dream walkers, then why doesn't Perrin or any of the Aiel dream walkers or Egwene have the same effect on people. if it's strength in the power, again, why doesn't Egwene have this effect on others.

[herid]

When Elayne arrives at the field of Merrilor at the end of ToM the clouds don't break there. They only break when Rand shows up. Are the effects on his girls through the bond wearing off?

[MasterAblar]

When Elayne arrives at the field of Merrilor at the end of ToM the clouds don't break there. They only break when Rand shows up. Are the effects on his girls through the bond wearing off?

 

Well she only just got there so there may not have been enough time for them to break. Rand's effect is probably stronger which is why they immediatly broke. I think they were described as on the verge of breaking right before Rand arrived anyway.

Or maybe Egwene was negating Elayne's effect(joking,joking).

Edited April 28, 2011 by Master Ablar

[herid]

When Elayne arrives at the field of Merrilor at the end of ToM the clouds don't break there. They only break when Rand shows up. Are the effects on his girls through the bond wearing off?

 

Well she only just got there so there may not have been enough time for them to break. Rand's effect is probably stronger which is why they immediatly broke. I think they were described as on the verge of breaking right before Rand arrived anyway.

 

hmm, it was never mentioned earlier that it takes a long time for clouds to break over Rand's girls but perhaps that's it. However, the part about the clouds almost breaking I think is related to Rand's arrival not Elayne's presence. At least that's how I read it. Here is the quote

 

Egwene stood back, for now. Once she stepped forward, Elayne would have to kiss her ring and the entire procession would bow; that would spoil Gawyn's moment. As she waited, the clouds above grew thinner.

Suddenly they split, the dark thunderheads pulling back. The sky became an open field of blue, a deep, pure expanse. Elayne's eyes opened wide, and she turned on her horse, looking at Perrin's section of camp.

ToM, Ch 56

But perhaps there is enough ambiguity here to make your explanation plausible...

Or maybe Egwene was negating Elayne's effect(joking,joking).

now, that can be!

[Lupy]

In the Age of Legends did people practice the 4th age religion? Did they believe that a prophesied hero would come to save them, and did they know that he was LTT?

[MasterAblar]

In the Age of Legends did people practice the 4th age religion? Did they believe that a prophesied hero would come to save them, and did they know that he was LTT?

 

They didn't need a savior. And while Rand is the savior of the world people tended to ignore that part because of all the suffering and destruction he's meant to bring. His coming was hardly something they looked forward to.

Also it's the third age not the fourth.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Master Ablar

[MasterAblar]

When Elayne arrives at the field of Merrilor at the end of ToM the clouds don't break there. They only break when Rand shows up. Are the effects on his girls through the bond wearing off?

 

Well she only just got there so there may not have been enough time for them to break. Rand's effect is probably stronger which is why they immediatly broke. I think they were described as on the verge of breaking right before Rand arrived anyway.

 

hmm, it was never mentioned earlier that it takes a long time for clouds to break over Rand's girls but perhaps that's it. However, the part about the clouds almost breaking I think is related to Rand's arrival not Elayne's presence. At least that's how I read it. Here is the quote

 

Egwene stood back, for now. Once she stepped forward, Elayne would have to kiss her ring and the entire procession would bow; that would spoil Gawyn's moment. As she waited, the clouds above grew thinner.

Suddenly they split, the dark thunderheads pulling back. The sky became an open field of blue, a deep, pure expanse. Elayne's eyes opened wide, and she turned on her horse, looking at Perrin's section of camp.

ToM, Ch 56

But perhaps there is enough ambiguity here to make your explanation plausible...

Or maybe Egwene was negating Elayne's effect(joking,joking).

now, that can be!

 

Well now that I see the actual quote (I was going by memory) the thinning of the clouds does seem to have more to do with Rand's arrival than Elayne, although it's hard to say. In any case I don't think Elayne's opposition to Rand's plan would affect her "ability" to break the cloudcover.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Master Ablar

[David Selig]

The way I read it, the clouds started thinning before Rand arrived through the Gateway, due to Elayne's weaker cloud breaking ability. When Rand came, they broke instantly. Before that he was somewhere far away and couldn't have been the reason for the thinning If he was already near, Elayne would've sensed him instantly through the bond.

 

When Elayne went to Caihien,the sky was described as overcast at first, which supports the suggestion that her cloud breaking works more slowly.

[herid]

The way I read it, the clouds started thinning before Rand arrived through the Gateway, due to Elayne's weaker cloud breaking ability. When Rand came, they broke instantly. Before that he was somewhere far away and couldn't have been the reason for the thinning If he was already near, Elayne would've sensed him instantly through the bond.

 

When Elayne went to Caihien,the sky was described as overcast at first, which supports the suggestion that her cloud breaking works more slowly.

Good catch! I missed that one. Note however, that it's never mentioned that the clouds break over Cairhien at all after Elayne arrived so this could be read as supporting the idea that Rand's positive influence through the bond has weakened. The description about clouds breaking at FOM is somewhat ambiguous and could be read differently as was discussed above. We don't know that clouds break for Rand absolutely instantly. It could take a few moments which is consistent with that description. Or he might be affecting the place via an open gateway while still on the other side.

 

But your and Master Ablar's explanation is certainly a possibility.

[Massive]

Is it possible that there might be more besides the DO behind the remaining seals? I guess I don't know if all the Forsaken were freed as a resulting of a breaking or weakening seal, or if the nature of all the seals means that anything physical would've come out as the first one weakened or what.

[yoniy0]

I think we can tell the exact moment Rand arrived by Elayne's reaction. Apparently, the feeling of the newfound warmness in him can be quite overwhelming from a short distance. And as her eyes widen the exact moment the clouds break...

[Thaed]

Doing a re-read of the series and am currently on TDR. At one point in Ch 48 "following the Craft" Egwene mentions a dream in which: "Rand in that dry,dusty chamber again, with those small creatures settling into his skin."

 

I was wondering if anyone knew what these creatures are or if they were previously mentioned (as is implied by the wording)