Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Bela_theDo]

That was simply and exactly why I asked. But is there any proof of that it is possible?

[Sharaman]

That was simply and exactly why I asked. But is there any proof of that it is possible?

Yes RJ said 1) some AoL channelers knew this trick of partial masking. 2) As Sedai don't know its possible. The cited example is usually Lanfear pretending to be Else Grinwell in TDR. It is as valid for Mesaana. 

[Auld Manriva]

I agree, masking ones ability completely or in part has be shown, although I know of no instance of it being exaggerated or disquised to be more than ones actual ability. Logically, I don't think that could be done.

[horus17]

Padan Fain seems to be a different breed of evil, and answers to no one. So why hasn't the DO made a serious attempt to eliminate him? Or is he still a pawn in play for the forces of evil?

[Anoxanmore]

Padan Fain has been heavily hunted... that is why the Trollocs were in the Two River and it is also why Isam was there. With secondary reasons for trying to draw the three ta'vern there.

[Aquarius]

Padan Fain has been heavily hunted... that is why the Trollocs were in the Two River and it is also why Isam was there. With secondary reasons for trying to draw the three ta'vern there.

I'm confused ... Isam and the Trollocs seem to have played in Fain's hand in the Two Rivers, on his side (hence all Fain's patrols where Bornhald's men died, all Bornhald's patrols beeing severely atacked...)

 

Aside from that, some on these forums say that the Dark Hound Pack we see in I-can't-remember-what-book was on his trail. Add to that the Golham that wasn't always hunting Mat.;. that makes a big effort I guess. I'm troubled that the Chosen make little case of him though. perhaps that was your point ?

[Sharaman]

"The renegade Fain" as Moridin refers to him, is definitely on GLoD's hit-list. He's also smart and fast with strange powers of his own - nobody called Mordeth an idiot.

Some people believe the DarkHound pack in CoT were after Fain - it's a reasonable assumption but not proved.

Fain himself believes he's dead meat if any of the Chosen ever find him and Slayer has standing orders to off him on sight.

 

[Durinax]

Padan Fain has been heavily hunted... that is why the Trollocs were in the Two River and it is also why Isam was there. With secondary reasons for trying to draw the three ta'vern there.

I'm confused ... Isam and the Trollocs seem to have played in Fain's hand in the Two Rivers, on his side (hence all Fain's patrols where Bornhald's men died, all Bornhald's patrols beeing severely atacked...)

 

Aside from that, some on these forums say that the Dark Hound Pack we see in I-can't-remember-what-book was on his trail. Add to that the Golham that wasn't always hunting Mat.;. that makes a big effort I guess. I'm troubled that the Chosen make little case of him though. perhaps that was your point ?

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

[Aquarius]

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

The only instance of Fain tortureing a Myrhdral was in the Great Hunt, fleeing from Fal Dara with the Horn, to assert his authority over both the Darkfriends and the Trollocs with him. Is there any actual Fain PoV of that ?

 

EDIT: I'vejust reread Fain's PoV at the end of Book 4. Yes there's a Myrhdralk with him, not too happy, but I don't see anything implying Fain tortured him.

[Durinax]

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

The only instance of Fain tortureing a Myrhdral was in the Great Hunt, fleeing from Fal Dara with the Horn, to assert his authority over both the Darkfriends and the Trollocs with him. Is there any actual Fain PoV of that ?

 

EDIT: I'vejust reread Fain's PoV at the end of Book 4. Yes there's a Myrhdralk with him, not too happy, but I don't see anything implying Fain tortured him.

I assumed because he had the myrdraal chained down, and fain doesnt strike me as the sort to waste his time trying to persuade a myrdraal to do his bidding

[Sharaman]

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

The only instance of Fain tortureing a Myrhdral was in the Great Hunt, fleeing from Fal Dara with the Horn, to assert his authority over both the Darkfriends and the Trollocs with him. Is there any actual Fain PoV of that ?

 

EDIT: I'vejust reread Fain's PoV at the end of Book 4. Yes there's a Myrhdralk with him, not too happy, but I don't see anything implying Fain tortured him.

 

TSR

The Myrddraal began to sweat as Fain talked about agreements and accords - he'd tied it spread-eagled in a pool of light.

LoC Chapter 28:

" A rustling caught his ear, and he glanced toward where the Myrddraal sat waiting his pleasure on the far

side of the room. It did not try to meet his gaze; he had broken it of that long since.

He tried to return to his contemplation of the blade, to the perfect beauty of perfect death, the beauty of

what Aridhol had been and would be again, but the Myrddraal had broken his concentration. Spoiled it. He very

nearly went over and killed the thing. Halfmen took a long time to die; how long if he used the dagger? As if

sensing his thoughts, it stirred again. No, it could be useful still."

 

You don't think torture is implied at the sweating?

He must have used kindness and patience to break the Fade of trying to meet his gaze?

And chaining something spreadeagled tight in a pool of bright light is gentle treatment? 

 

[Dreamwalker]

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

The only instance of Fain tortureing a Myrhdral was in the Great Hunt, fleeing from Fal Dara with the Horn, to assert his authority over both the Darkfriends and the Trollocs with him. Is there any actual Fain PoV of that ?

 

EDIT: I'vejust reread Fain's PoV at the end of Book 4. Yes there's a Myrhdralk with him, not too happy, but I don't see anything implying Fain tortured him.

 

TSR

The Myrddraal began to sweat as Fain talked about agreements and accords - he'd tied it spread-eagled in a pool of light.

LoC Chapter 28:

" A rustling caught his ear, and he glanced toward where the Myrddraal sat waiting his pleasure on the far

side of the room. It did not try to meet his gaze; he had broken it of that long since.

He tried to return to his contemplation of the blade, to the perfect beauty of perfect death, the beauty of

what Aridhol had been and would be again, but the Myrddraal had broken his concentration. Spoiled it. He very

nearly went over and killed the thing. Halfmen took a long time to die; how long if he used the dagger? As if

sensing his thoughts, it stirred again. No, it could be useful still."

 

You don't think torture is implied at the sweating?

He must have used kindness and patience to break the Fade of trying to meet his gaze?

And chaining something spreadeagled tight in a pool of bright light is gentle treatment? 

 

 

Yeah, I think there's pretty clearly been some torture going on. But the pool of bright light is probably there because otherwise the Myrddraal could use a shadow to slip away all freaky like they do. ( Try not to be blown away by the eloquence in that statement, haha  ::) )

[Sharaman]

Note that the poor Fade can't shut his eyes to cut off the glare because he doesn't have eyelids, in fact he doesn't have eyes.

It doesn't matter why Fain did it, it's still torture - some creatyre is chained down within the glare of brights lights.

Classic technique.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Note that the poor Fade can't shut his eyes to cut off the glare because he doesn't have eyelids, in fact he doesn't have eyes.

It doesn't matter why Fain did it, it's still torture - some creatyre is chained down within the glare of brights lights.

Classic technique.

 

Well, I didn't say he wasn't being tortured (I think the passage makes it pretty obvious he is), just that you'd have to do the light thing anyway to keep a Fade from escaping.

[horus17]

yeah, i was talking about the Chosen not going after Fain. but then again maybe his own brand of evil creates enough discord  for him to actually aid the Chosen in an odd sort of way. the trollocs and Isam in the two rivers did seem to work in Fain's favor.

[yoniy0]

yeah, i was talking about the Chosen not going after Fain. but then again maybe his own brand of evil creates enough discord  for him to actually aid the Chosen in an odd sort of way. the trollocs and Isam in the two rivers did seem to work in Fain's favor.

How would the Forsaken (I don't get why some of you guys use Shadow lingo even when you're not discussing the frame of mind of a DF. If I remember correctly, that made RJ uncomfortable as well) go about catching Fain? He's not high profile like Rand or even Mat/Perrin/the supergirls. He goes where he wills, does his evil and fades back into the background. We know he believes that if he's unfortunate enough to stumble on one of them, he's dead.

[Aquarius]

Is there an off-screen character, someone we have heard about several times but never seen, that seems remarquable enough to qualify as a possible Demandred ?

[Sharaman]

Roedran has been mentioned in this context - with both pros and cons.

There are several Demandred threads on this board where the topic has been discussed with much enthusiasm.

There is also the chance that Dem, if he's working with proxies, will take pains not to seem remarkable.

 

[Aquarius]

Roedran has been mentioned in this context - with both pros and cons.

There are several Demandred threads on this board where the topic has been discussed with much enthusiasm.

There is also the chance that Dem, if he's working with proxies, will take pains not to seem remarkable.

 

I had previously erased Roedran from my own list of potentials, but yes, he qualifies. I was wondering about other lesser known people.

 

(sorry if that was supposed to go in a Demmy post, but it's the "fast question /fast answer" after all)

[Kathleen]

I have a simple question, and one of very little importance. Does Tam see Nynaeve as just the Wisdom, or does he lump her in with the Aes Sedai? When he storms into the room of Aes Sedai he refers to her as "Wisdom" and then goes on to ask what the Aes Sedai did to his boy.

[Aquarius]

I have a simple question, and one of very little importance. Does Tam see Nynaeve as just the Wisdom, or does he lump her in with the Aes Sedai? When he storms into the room of Aes Sedai he refers to her as "Wisdom" and then goes on to ask what the Aes Sedai did to his boy.

Yes, he does see her as Wisdom. He probably knows she has gone a long way from Emond's Field, but yes. IN that conversation he makes a clear distinction between Aes Sedai schemes and the Wisdom.

[Kathleen]

Ok, that is how I took it, but I wasn't sure that is how he meant it. It was few sentences later and he had gotten a little more annoyed. I think having her there he new she had some part in the plan, so I wasn't sure if his comments were meant for her too, but the way I read his comment of her as Wisdom I thought there was separation. Thanks.

[yoniy0]

It might be worthwhile to mention that, unless I'm mistaken, no one has more information than you do on this issue, it's all a matter of interpretation. I know of no separate source of information to support a decision either way. That being said, I agree with Aquarius.

[Aquarius]

I know of no separate source of information to support a decision either way. That being said, I agree with Aquarius.

Indeed. Sorry if I sounded too sure of myself. I just couldn't find room for argument. But yes you're right :)

[benny the ball]

I'm prett sure you are right aquaarius. Tams been out of the TR before and knows what AS are like.