The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[a5m]

The swirling colours only started happening much later. Not until Book IX at least.

 

Not true. There are references to swirling colors as early as book 6 or 7 though they didn't resolve into anything at the time.

[Matjess]

I think it may have something to do with Rand entering t'a'r in the flesh, which he first did when pursuing Rahvin. He was warned of negative consequences.

[Crael123]

I think it may have something to do with Rand entering t'a'r in the flesh, which he first did when pursuing Rahvin. He was warned of negative consequences.

 

he did turn significantly darker after that

[Sharaman]

The swirling colours only started happening much later. Not until Book IX at least.

 

Not true. There are references to swirling colors as early as book 6 or 7 though they didn't resolve into anything at the time.

 

First references I can remember is WH - Book IX. Certainly doesn't happen to Mat or Perrin earlier.

[DemandredFO]

Rand first entered T'A'R in tDR to kill ishamael with callandor.

[Paerish Swar]

I think it may have something to do with Rand entering t'a'r in the flesh, which he first did when pursuing Rahvin. He was warned of negative consequences.

Rand first entered T'A'R in tDR to kill ishamael with callandor.

 

I'm glad you two brought this up.  I've always wondered about the consequences of Rand entering T'A'R in the flesh.  T'A'R is a reflection of all worlds, and it's also where the Heroes bound to the Wheel reside in between their various lives.  The Dragon is a hero bound to the Wheel and the most strongly ta'veren individual ever.  Where ever he goes the pattern / reality "bends."  Consequences regarding entering T'A'R in the flesh might be heightened for him.

 

It is after he enters T'A'R in the flesh to fight Ishamael in tDR that there starts to be a "transference" of knowledge between what I will call "Lews Therin consciousness" and "Rand consciousness."  This continues to develop, eventually into a full-fledged voice, and especially after he returns to T'A'R in the flesh to fight Rahvin in tFoH does that voice really appear to become a whole, seperate consciousness.  Of special note is the scene where Rand battles Rahvin, and there is a moment where Rand actually begins to "morph" into Lews Therin.  Rand thinks that this is one of Rahvin's attacks against him, which is very likely to have been true.

 

But did Rahvin know something we don't, perhaps about the nature of the Dragon's soul?  I don't think it would have been very smart of Rahvin to trade facing the very inexperienced Rand with facing the extremely experienced Lews Therin in a duel; so, why would he try to make such an attack on the Dragon, except to intentionally force the Dragons soul or consciousness into a conflicting duality.

 

The effects of Rand entering T'A'R in the flesh appear to me to have expedited the split in Rand's personality (with the final straw being his captivity in LoC solidifying the split).  I have to ask then, was this kind of attack part of the DO's plan (or one of his possible plans) for the Dragon - to plunge him into incurable madness before Tarmon Gaidon?  Is it what Rand becomes after his duel in T'A'R that inspires the DO to proclaim, "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule," to his Chosen?

 

Just some questions I've been wondering about.

 

 

[a5m]

The swirling colours only started happening much later. Not until Book IX at least.

 

Not true. There are references to swirling colors as early as book 6 or 7 though they didn't resolve into anything at the time.

 

First references I can remember is WH - Book IX. Certainly doesn't happen to Mat or Perrin earlier.

 

It happened to Rand and it first occurred in Book 7. (I recently finished listening to book 6 and I'm in the middle of book 7 so I thought it might have been 6.

 

Rand was talking to Berelain about going back to Mayene when "colors swirled  so strongly in his head that his tongue froze." He ended up sending Berelain with Perrin and he was talking about what else could he do for her about Mayene. It is the first reference of swirling colors though Rand doesn't connect it that time to thinking of Perrin though he was.

[algspkr]

The swirling colours only started happening much later. Not until Book IX at least.

 

Not true. There are references to swirling colors as early as book 6 or 7 though they didn't resolve into anything at the time.

 

First references I can remember is WH - Book IX. Certainly doesn't happen to Mat or Perrin earlier.

 

 

Rand was talking to Berelain about going back to Mayene when "colors swirled  so strongly in his head that his tongue froze." He ended up sending Berelain with Perrin and he was talking about what else could he do for her about Mayene. It is the first reference of swirling colors though Rand doesn't connect it that time to thinking of Perrin though he was.

 

I am pretty sure that Rand's early experience with the colors was due to his link with Moridin.  The first reference we have to the colors linking the ta'verin is in CoT.

 

It happened to Rand and it first occurred in Book 7. (I recently finished listening to book 6 and I'm in the middle of book 7 so I thought it might have been 6.

[a5m]

I am pretty sure that Rand's early experience with the colors was due to his link with Moridin.

The reference I quoted occurred well before Rand met Moridin. He was thinking of sending Berelain with Perrin though he doesn't make the connection at the time.

 

As such, it is off topic for this thread since it didn't first occur during book 6.

[Matjess]

Rand first entered T'A'R in tDR to kill ishamael with callandor.

Thanks Demandred, I had forgotten about that, been about 8 years since I picked up TDR.

 

It just occurred to me that Egwene entered T'A'R in the flesh when she left the Aiel to become Amyrlin. Is it possible she will suffer negative consequences?

[RamzeXvX]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but when Elaida and her group are entering Siuan's study to depose her as amyrlin she reaches for the True Source and finds herself blocked.  Yet it wasn't until after that she sees the glow around any of them.  I think one of the aes sedai that were with elaida then was Mesaana. Unless Mesaana had already taught Alviarin how to mask the glow and invert her weaves.

[Glowbal]

Rand first entered T'A'R in tDR to kill ishamael with callandor.

Thanks Demandred, I had forgotten about that, been about 8 years since I picked up TDR.

 

It just occurred to me that Egwene entered T'A'R in the flesh when she left the Aiel to become Amyrlin. Is it possible she will suffer negative consequences?

 

It would be there then, already. I personally don't think it has negative consequences, just that people are to scared to do so, since T'A'R is quite dangerouse.

And btw, if it had negative consequenses, why would the forsaken dare to use it? I remember reading that they used it the some way simular as Egwene used it. And they have knowledge of the AOL.

[showerlilly]

I Love everyones theories, but I think they are too complicated. if it is something "Big" we missed. Then it should be obvious. Something Big would be obvious, not a hard theory to figure out. I would look at things that seemed small at the time, but maybe we just didnt think about it hard enough. Like for instance the siswai'aman. The aiel that have taken to wearing the red Aes Sedia bandannas started in the end of book four. I'm pretty sure. Ive heard the characters speculate them since then, alot, but never has anyone explained what they mean... or what role those particular Aiel are to play. If it was my guess the thing we missed would be something very noticable, like that, But something we just failed to pay much attention to.

 

 

[wcbrooks]

I Love everyones theories, but I think they are too complicated. if it is something "Big" we missed. Then it should be obvious. Something Big would be obvious, not a hard theory to figure out. I would look at things that seemed small at the time, but maybe we just didnt think about it hard enough. Like for instance the siswai'aman. The aiel that have taken to wearing the red Aes Sedia bandannas started in the end of book four. I'm pretty sure. Ive heard the characters speculate them since then, alot, but never has anyone explained what they mean... or what role those particular Aiel are to play. If it was my guess the thing we missed would be something very noticable, like that, But something we just failed to pay much attention to.

 

 

The siswai'aman are the "Spear of the Dragon" they think Rand is their Lord or something...I think something else was about them...to do with the Aes Sedai sin??

They fought at Dumais Well

I think the "Brotherless" - Mera'din have been mentioned more then them

[Sharaman]

The Aiel refuse to talk about them. The siswai and the Maidens have a jealous relationship.

But where do you go from there?

 

[Calderis]

I Love everyones theories, but I think they are too complicated. if it is something "Big" we missed. Then it should be obvious. Something Big would be obvious, not a hard theory to figure out. I would look at things that seemed small at the time, but maybe we just didnt think about it hard enough. Like for instance the siswai'aman. The aiel that have taken to wearing the red Aes Sedia bandannas started in the end of book four. I'm pretty sure. Ive heard the characters speculate them since then, alot, but never has anyone explained what they mean... or what role those particular Aiel are to play. If it was my guess the thing we missed would be something very noticable, like that, But something we just failed to pay much attention to.

 

This is example is perfect. It's something that's been in plain site since introduced, is never fully explained, and has potential to have major meaning.

 

Well noted.

[dumont76]

I Love everyones theories, but I think they are too complicated. if it is something "Big" we missed. Then it should be obvious. Something Big would be obvious, not a hard theory to figure out. I would look at things that seemed small at the time, but maybe we just didnt think about it hard enough. Like for instance the siswai'aman. The aiel that have taken to wearing the red Aes Sedia bandannas started in the end of book four. I'm pretty sure. Ive heard the characters speculate them since then, alot, but never has anyone explained what they mean... or what role those particular Aiel are to play. If it was my guess the thing we missed would be something very noticable, like that, But something we just failed to pay much attention to.

 

This is example is perfect. It's something that's been in plain site since introduced, is never fully explained, and has potential to have major meaning.

 

Well noted.

 

Especially when you consider the potential of the friction between the siswai and the Maidens... ::)

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Thats a great point. Remember a remnant of a remnant will remain, so a lot of aiel still kinda have to die...

[Damodred]

Really though that's all it is, friction.  Aiel live for honor and the "spears of the dragon" are merely jealous that the maidens hold the caracarns  honor and they don't, even though they've taken to trying to be the teacher's pet in a way.  I think all it is is a group of Aiel men taking "people of the dragon" a little too seriously.

[algspkr]

I Love everyones theories, but I think they are too complicated. if it is something "Big" we missed. Then it should be obvious. Something Big would be obvious, not a hard theory to figure out. I would look at things that seemed small at the time, but maybe we just didnt think about it hard enough. Like for instance the siswai'aman. The aiel that have taken to wearing the red Aes Sedia bandannas started in the end of book four. I'm pretty sure. Ive heard the characters speculate them since then, alot, but never has anyone explained what they mean... or what role those particular Aiel are to play. If it was my guess the thing we missed would be something very noticable, like that, But something we just failed to pay much attention to.

 

 

 

I got the impression that it was supposed to be something smaller that had been mentioned repeatedly like Mat's hat, but I certainly hope it's not the hat.

[Shadow Rider]

Thats a great point. Remember a remnant of a remnant will remain, so a lot of aiel still kinda have to die...

 

 

I think most of the Aiel will die the remnant of a remnant is the Tuath'aan......they will find the song (maybe with the Seachen) they will play a huge part after Tarmon Gaiden ....the song will call the Nim and they will Vanquish the Blight....which is the reason I maintain the big thing we missed is Rhuidean, Rand is having it rebuilt Aiel traders & Ogier and I still think Rand will give Rhuidean to the Traveling People because They didn't fail the Aes sedai who told them .....

 

  "The citizens have already fled the Paaren Disen, Jonai. Besides the Da'shain yet have another part to play, if Deindre could only see far enough to say what. In any case I intend to save something here and that something is YOU."

"As you say," he said reluctantly. "We will care for what you have given into our charge until you want them again."

"Of course. The things we gave you." She smiled at him and loosened her grip, smoothing his hair once more before folding her hands. "You will carry the ... things ... to safety, Jonai.

Keep moving always moving, until you find a place of safety, where no one can harm you."

.............."keep the Covenant Jonai.If the Da'shain lose EVERYTHING ELSE,see they keep THE WAY OF THE LEAF. Promise me."

 

The Covenant was the Aiel, and the Aiel were the Covenant; to abandon the Way would be to abandon what they were.............."KEEP THE AIEL SAFE"

 

The Shadow Rising: Ch-26 (The Dedicated) pg.430-431

 

The reason I think the Aes Sedai gave the ter'angreal to the Da'shain was to keep them away from the men going mad But it is the Aiel themselves who were the real "things" the true treasure.

 

 

[Dreamwalker]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but when Elaida and her group are entering Siuan's study to depose her as amyrlin she reaches for the True Source and finds herself blocked.  Yet it wasn't until after that she sees the glow around any of them.  I think one of the aes sedai that were with elaida then was Mesaana. Unless Mesaana had already taught Alviarin how to mask the glow and invert her weaves.

 

I think there's a strong possibility that Mesaana is Danelle, who was in that group and even smirks at Siuan during that confrontation, so I think your idea makes sense.

 

However, I don't think this is the BUT simply because since Brandon said it had been "going a while" which makes it seem like something that gets mentioned a bit and is sort of right under our nose, we just haven't thought about it.

[shadowfox]

Has anyone said anything about the fact that the ToG can be accessed from the world of dreams?

 

Perrin and Ewgene could play a major part in the rescue of Moraine indirectly.

 

(sorry if any spelling is wrong just throwing a quick note in while at work)

[DemandredFO]

Remember though, Birgitte said accessing Ghenji through the world of dreams is more dangerous than when awake.  However, this brings another thought, how did Moghedien know who Birgitte was.  She told either Nyneave or Elayne about it.  I don't know if this fits exactly the qualifications but I think it occured in 4-6 and it is kind of Mysterious.

I think Luckers' theory(which would take too long to reproduce) about the remanent of a remanent is correct.  The Tinkers kept The Way but they abandoned their charge.  The only ones that followed exactly are gone.  Anyway, I certainly hope the Tinkers aren't saved; when the Trollocs invade Seanchan lands, the tinkers may be massacred if they are in the way.  I have only contempt for them.

Since there is a Mistborn spoiler tag; for those that have read the entire trilogy, keep Vin's stud in mind.  Insignificant, just a worthless heir but in the end, Very important.

[NetSlider]

Where is the 3rd avendasora (sp)? In Rand's viewing in Rhudian there is a part when he thinks that there only three saplings left. One is now in Rhudian. Second was given to Cahrien(sp). Where is the third one?