The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[mossman87]

Regarding Jong's post, HAS it ever been figured out how Mat was hung on the tree?

 

IIRC, RJ said the Finns have no power outside their own realm.

[analyticalkeys]

Now, as for Shara, "war in Shara" was on the list of ruled out stuff, but there's a reference to Shara in TGH 25 ("...cold blows the wind down Shara Pass"). That might be enough to rule it out completely.

 

The list of ruled out stuff was deemed invalid by BS, but whether this was a slip that Peter wasn't supposed to reveal, or whatever, we're not going to really know. That quote from TGH doesn't rule it out though.. the something that could've been first mentioned was the actual fighting in Shara, not Shara itself.

[mossman87]

 

Ch 28 in TSR seems to occur while Rand and Mat are in Ruhiean. We never find out how Mat ends up hanging there. Perhaps Slayer was summoned by the finns to take care of the body and thats how Mat ends up hanging there with the spear.

The Eelfinn did it themselves.

 

 

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005

 

Week 1 Question: Are the Eelfinn limited in their power to grant wishes? To what degree can they affect the outside world? Also, is there any relation between what the Aelfinn do and Min's ability?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Oh, yes, there definitely are limits to the powers of the Eelfinn. For one thing, they cannot affect the outside world at all. If you said that you wanted to be King of the World, you might well find that what you received was not what you expected. For example, they might put you out of their world into a world with no other sentient life, where you would be king by default. Then again, you might find yourself with the necessary skills to make yourself King of the World, if you were able. Actually achieving it would be up to you. But then, many of their "gifts" are skewed in this way. You must be very careful is you're asking if you want to receive what you are hoping for. And yet, remember that Mat actually did receive very much what he asked for. Just not in the way that he wanted.

[Seafolk Sedai]

Jordan said we would never visit Shara or the Isle of Madmen.  I doubt we'll see anything pertaining to either at this late date.

 

This Shara thing has been bothering me for a while. It keeps coming up and I keep wanting to see it, and then this morning I came across this quote at theoryland:

 

East of the Sun Con, Stockholm, Sweden June 1995 - Karl-Johan Norén reporting

 

 

There are no plans to visit Seanchan in any greater extent than it already has been visited, and there are not going to be any visits to Shara either

 

But then later...

 

Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 1997

 

Kate from State College PA: In a previous statement I believe you had basically said that the action of the series would take place in the lands known to Rand and his friends, i.e., not Shara or Seanchan and yet the new book has a lot of stuff about those lands--have you changed your mind? Is action in either of these two lands a possibility now?

 

RJ: No. Except for the possible occasional divergence, like for Rand's excursions to Seanchan when he chased after Aviendha. I was willing to put as much as I did into the guide because I will not be using those things in the books in the same way that I used Kandor or Saldaea.

 

So it's not that we won't see Shara at all, just that if we do, it will be very short, like Rand and Aviendha getting busy. I find it especially suspicious how little he put in the Guide about Shara. *sagenod*

 

 

[Lewsdarren]

What if the 'big, unnoticed' thing is Aiel humor? Picture Brandon after a long day on the book tour looking at this post......"ha ha ha mats hat! Ha ha" Aiel humor, and the joke is on us.......

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm going with my original idea - Birgitte's arrow.  I think it's fated to play the role of Mistletoe.

[Forlorn]

Howdy guys, been lurking for a while and just got done reading this thread in its entirety.  I didnt see someone mention this and I didnt see it on the ruled out thread either.

 

When Elayne undid her gateway and caused the explosion there was some immediate talk about the power working oddly in the area.  Following this I seem to remember a number of comments in later books about the power not working as well as it should, wards failing that seem to be fine.  Might this track back to this moment and not the DO as is assumed? 

[jemron]

Forlorn,

 

Good thought, but no.  That didn't happen until Path of Daggers (book 8).  Whatever this "thing" or "event" is, BS said it happened/started in books 4-6.

[Shmuel Goldberg]

One thing which happened in book 4 was that Rand rammed Callandor into the Stone. He put traps around it. In book 6, he inverts the weaves. Then when Narishma pulled it out, he complained that there were more traps than what Rand told him (happens in book 8 ). Could that be it?

[Sharaman]

One thing which happened in book 4 was that Rand rammed Callandor into the Stone. He put traps around it. In book 6, he inverts the weaves. Then when Narishma pulled it out, he complained that there were more traps than what Rand told him (happens in book 8 ). Could that be it?

Sammael embellished the weaves. The Callandor factor started in Book 3 by the way.

[kari-no-sugata]

Here's a suggestion, though I only remember it appearing in books 4-5:

 

When Asmodean and Rand fight at the end of TSR, Rand "cuts Asmodean off from the Dark One". That made Asmodean mortal and no longer protected against the Taint. Lanfear didn't even think it was possible. Hard to say what future relevance it could have but it directly involves the Dark One and remaining Forsaken.

 

I don't remember this being discussed much (not that I read these forums much) and unless I missed it, hasn't been raised in this thread - I did a search, but could have missed it.

[dbo -WoT-]

First time poster on any WoT forums, so if what I suggest/am asking about has been discussed before take it easy on me.  Please   :-[. Haha

 

Anyways, a question popped into my head the other day that I don't think has been discussed on any forums (at least not that I've seen).  The question involved how, if Rand does indeed have to destroy the DOs prison to rebuild it, is Rand planning on breaking the cuendillar seals?

 

Now, I'm pretty sure there's a quote floating around that BS said the True Power could be used to break cuendillar.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that.  I also believe he said there was another way.  

 

Why I posted on this board is, if Rand chooses the method I'm proposing, this MAY be the big hint we've been missing.  How likely is that?  Probably not very because I'm not as up to date on the series as many of you are.  Regardless, I'd like an answer to the question.

 

Question-Can a gateway opening or closing on a piece of cuendillar destroy/slice it in two?

 

How I think this could be the unnoticed thing we've been missing is this.  To the best of my knowledge we don't see our first gateway until TSR.  We've seen gateways before, such as in the prologue of TEotW, but never from a characters POV with descriptions on the effects of a gateway (as far as I know).  Anyways, I'm betting that we learn a gateway cleanly slices through anything in its path in books 4-6.  This is then infrequently mentioned throughout the rest of the series.  Combine that with us learning the cuendillar seals may need to be broken recently, and I think this could (if I'm correct) be a big AHAH! in the last two books.

 

Now, I know this is kind of out there because we learned the seals were cuendillar and unbreakable at the end of EotW (among other parts of this theory being potentially loose/out there), but I thought it'd be fun to post this little theory anyways.  Also, I just want to know what would happen if cuendillar was placed in a closing gateway.

 

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[jemron]

Welcome!  Great first post.

 

Your theory is just as good or better than a lot that I've heard.  I disagree that it is the secret thing that's hidden, but who knows?

 

I do wonder what would happen to cuendillar if  a gateway opens right over it...  Interesting.

[dbo -WoT-]

Welcome!  Great first post.

 

Your theory is just as good or better than a lot that I've heard.  I disagree that it is the secret thing that's hidden, but who knows?

 

I do wonder what would happen to cuendillar if  a gateway opens right over it...  Interesting.

 

I agree there's probably too many holes in it to be the secret.  However, I first thought of it while reading this board and thought it'd be fun to throw the question out there while attempting to argue for it.  I also wanted to see what people thought would happen in the instance of a gateway closing on cuendillar.  We know a gateway can be held open by a powerful channeler, but that isn't physically blocking the gateway.  It is more a prevention of the weaves from unraveling or vanishing (besides the residue) or whatever they do.

 

Oh-and thank you.  :)

[IsThisNameTakenAlready]

I asked the same question a while back under the idea of using a tube of cuendillar with bent out ends to keep a gateway open.  No one really seemed to care much under the assumption that a fixed gateway would be a liability rather than anything good.  As for the seals being destroyed by gateway, they are already weakened and could be shattered by falling off a table.  They certainly COULD have been weakened by the DL or his minions by very, very tiny gateways (TP, OP or w/e) but the descriptions given by Nynaeve and Elaye on their way to Salidir(sp) and Moiraine at some point indicate the seals are very weak before they break and I believe Moiraine scraped flakes off of one.  If a gateway can slice cuendillar then she would not be able to do such and if any pieces did come off, they would not be flakes but blocks with flat edges.  Continuing, once each seal has broken, the fragments are just like normal cuendillar and as far as we know cannot be broken.

 

 

While interesting, I do not think this is the unnoticed thing.  Now for me to muse about other possibilities.  A slightly tapered rod placed in a gateway would shoot out with tremendous force when the gateway closes === rail gun.  Gateways + weave to reduce inertia === Portal.

[AvroChris]

Slightly one-power or metaphysical, but would a gateway cut things when it closed, or would it be the case that when it closes, the half that is one side, stays on that side, the half that is on the other, stays on the other. They're not "cut", they're just...separated. If a guy is stood with one foot on each "side" of the gateway, one bit of his body is apart from the other bit, closing the gateway realises that potential and splash...he falls apart in a fountain of blood.

[IsRandIrish]

many theories have been discounted because apparently they were already discussed on the forums and BS didnt see this'big' thing on any of the forums

How exactly do we know how much of the forums BS has read, discounting theories like this is foolish

I like the Mat hat thing but i doubt it

[dbo -WoT-]

Slightly one-power or metaphysical, but would a gateway cut things when it closed, or would it be the case that when it closes, the half that is one side, stays on that side, the half that is on the other, stays on the other. They're not "cut", they're just...separated. If a guy is stood with one foot on each "side" of the gateway, one bit of his body is apart from the other bit, closing the gateway realises that potential and splash...he falls apart in a fountain of blood.

 

I won't post on this again because I know it's off-topic, but when a gateway opens/closes it "cuts" or "seperates" everything in its path. What you're questioning (from my interpretation) is whether that cut (or seperation) actually damages whatever is seperated. I would say yes using your own example.  When a human is seperated he/she dies.  This seems to me to be damaging.  Therefore, anything else cut in two (or seperated) by the gateway would appear to be damaged or even destroyed (in the case of life) by it.  Also, I mention something about this in the paragraph below.

 

Another interesting thing about gateways.  When Rand enters Illian in ACoS, he travels to the top of a spire and views his gateway from the side.  From his POV we learn that you can't view a gateway directly from the side; it's invisible. In essence this makes a gateway 2 dimensional or too small for the eye to see.  I would lean towards too small for the eye to see as a 2 dimensional gateway shouldn't be able to cut along its opening (without any width to that edge).  Why I'm discussing this is there are points in the story where a gateway is opened over a rock surface and makes visible slices through the rock. The slices should be too thin to see if a gateways edge is, or maybe AvroChris is right and gateways just cause seperation.  In this case, the two parts are no longer seperated when the gateway closes and there should be no cut.  Maybe an error by RJ or maybe a misinterpretation/incorrect memory on my part.

 

Sorry about the metaphysics part of my post.

 

IsThisNameTakenAlready-

Good to know that someone brought up the gateway/cuendillar idea before.  I never really thought it had too much going for it in terms of the big secret.  I thought it could be a revelation in the later books though. Who knows???  Also, I wasn't sure where to post it, although I now see there's a metaphysics of the wheel thread.  I guess it could fit in the one power thread too.  Oops.

[Graendals favourite]

Just to try to go to sleep after casually wondering about that this unnoticed thing might be.... >:( :P

 

Anyway, one thing did strike me, after an hour of thinking about what could have happened in books 4 and 6. Trouble is, I am not sure this happened there. It is about Mat and the dagger.

 

One thing that really jarred at me in tGS was that Mat thought about how he'd like to have that ruby that had been on the dagger from Shadar Logoth. I hope it is not so, but he is rather the more negative, is he not? He had casually thought of the ruby back in tDR, but that was not so significant, since he thought they'd probably say it was as tainted as the dagger. It is, of course, though no a weapon. The problem is, I distinctly remember him thinking about the ruby also somewhere in tSR, near Rhuidean, also in a longing manner. Now I cannot help but thinking his outlook on things might have been slowly growing more negative, though masked by all sorts of things so that it isn't obvious, but that now he definitely is less happy-go-lucky as RJ described, more "bloody everything" and that sort of thing.

 

Thing is, Siuan said, she believed they had cleansed all of the taint from him, but had they left even a speck, it would grow, and a year from them he would wish he had remained in the Tower. I think perhaps they did cleanse all the influence of the dagger from him, but a connection to the ruby remained. Why else would he be recalling it, he has seen much more richness since! He doesn't need it. This last time, he outright longed for it. Perhaps since the ruby is not a weapon, it is not as quick to affect him, but it cannot be any sager on the long run. And the time that has passed since the Healing is... one year! Dammit I very much fear the ruby has a hold on him, whether or not it was this thing the first signs of which happened in 4&6.

 

But I am tired, and cannot recall what was where, but perhaps now I can go to sleep.  :D

[Random Man]

I missed that quote about Mat longing for the ruby, will have to look for it.

 

Speaking of the dagger, I had a slightly off-topic thought brought about by this quote:

 

 

When did Fain's dagger first show up? I wonder what effect stabbing the DO with that would have.

Book 1. And is it possible to stab Shai'tan?

 

What would happen if Fain stabbed Shaidar Haran?

[Kinseth]

Just a couple of thoughts, not sure that they have been discussed largely

 

• Lanfear says that they could challenge the darkone together.  Have other forsaken been able to even think about challenging him?  Most want to be Naeblis.  Is something different with Lanfear's bond to the DO.
  
• The Darkone wanting to Exhalt Rand above all others, Lanfear says that the other forsaken know this, and want to kill him.
  
• Liandrin's and the Black Ajahs plan to setup Mazrim Taim as a False dragon.  She knows compulsion, perhaps she used compulsion on Mazrim?  For a time when he proclaims himself as the True Dragon? (Yet to come)
  

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

[Random Man]

• Lanfear says that they could challenge the darkone together.  Have other forsaken been able to even think about challenging him?  Most want to be Naeblis.  Is something different with Lanfear's bond to the DO.

 

I doubt it; we know by now the main character trait in the Forsaken is selfishness. I'm sure that if any other Forsaken could think up a conceivable plot to overthrow the DO they'd go for it (and I'm sure the DO knows this, but isn't overly worried). Besides, we've seen Forsaken disobey the orders of the DO before (Mesaana for instance). In any event, with the CK destroyed, it's a moot point.

 

• The Darkone wanting to Exhalt Rand above all others, Lanfear says that the other forsaken know this, and want to kill him.

 

Not really surprising, and the DO wanting to turn Rand has been discussed quite a bit in the past.

 

• Liandrin's and the Black Ajahs plan to setup Mazrim Taim as a False dragon.  She knows compulsion, perhaps she used compulsion on Mazrim?  For a time when he proclaims himself as the True Dragon? (Yet to come)

The Pattern will not allow it -- when Rand revealed himself over the sky at Falme, bad things immediately happened to all 3 False Dragons. Then in TDR Moiraine got worried when she heard about Masema, thinking at first that there had been another False Dragon proclaim himself (which, if true, would have meant that Rand wasn't really the real Dragon Reborn).

 

[HighLordXanthus]

 

Basic workings of the power.

The OP and its workings were introduced in book 1, so again, too early.

 

Mr Ares, the only thing I can take from that is that you couldnt have read my post.  Yes true basic workings of the power are talked about in the first book.  BUT the meat of my post was about concepts about the power that first appeared in book 3 or 4 with dozens of mentions later.

 

I will admit that I wished more would have atleast commented on my post, with the "mat in the hat" theorys getting like 10 pages worth.  This could be a viable theory.  Tell me what you think.

 

Here is what I posted before if you wish to read and not dig it back out !!

 

How about a new idea?  I certainly do not remember it ever being discussed, except in the most casual way.

 

Basic workings of the power.  What can and cannot be done.  I know there are comments made by rand I think in tFoH when weaving for skimming.  Something about when making the platform to carry them all to Andor.  He makes the platform to the same size as the courtyard, then adds another ring of stones making it larger, until he begins to sink.  He brings it back until the floor firms and realizes he cannot make it much larger then his first attempt.  He questions how much of what he does is limits were set by himself.  This is also true for other things.  There is a random ashaman somewhere that has a "bar" where he cannot channel pass like 50 paces because he does not believe he can.  And aviendha unable to make a proper gateway, because the weave she first used was different.  This line of thought could lead to Rand figuring out how to seal the bore.

[DemandredFO]

I'm thinking that by the time ToM comes out, this thread is going to be as long as the stupid Asmodean thread.

[Eleint]

I kind of like Rand's obsession over killing women.  He obviously could kill women in tDR, but in tSR he started fixating on it in a way.  Perhaps that is due to a Compulsion or something?  He did talk to Lanfear and she channeled around him and could play with his dreams till he learned to ward them.