Questions/Theories Answered or New Tidbits Added (Full Book Spoilers)

[Swigaro]

I'm wondering if anyone else noticed on page 472 that Cadsuane lies through her teeth (albeit sarcastically) in response to her innkeeper/info contact's mention of Aiel in the city. 

 

Her response: "I hadn't noticed."

 

I'm assuming that it's just a little sloppy writing, but it could mean something about her oaths.  If she was bound by the first oath she'd have choked on that sentence before she could say it.  She wasn't mentioned on the BA list and Verin was happy that she could "finally be sure of Cadsuane" in Far Madding.  I almost wish she'd used the vial anyway after reading the last few books...

 

Sarcasm is not prohibited by the three oaths.  Suian does exactly the same thing in the scene where she sends Egwene to hunt the BA (at least I believe it is that scene). 

 

 

[Nightstrike]

okay, here's the deal, i have not got to buy the book and it's killing me.  somebody...anybody tell me about it.  i have so many questions and i am begging give me some info.

Read the "Prologue, chapt. 1-50 & epilogue" thread. There are lots of spoilers. Do not read too many of them.

 

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,49099.0.html

 

 

[Caedn of the Taardad]

First off, sorry for being a bit late on posting, between being lost in my own maunderings and my Vex Robitics class, I haven't managed to come on often yet. 

 

Back on the subject of fullfilled prophesies however, I'm sure many have noticed Rand's new sword, which can ONLY be the sword Justice, once wielded by Artur Paendrag Tanreal himself.  This is the only possibility since rand mentions "oddly, it was one of his own memories, not one of Lewis Therrin's".  Combined with the facts that it reminds him of Falme for "more than one reason" and was found under an "ancient submerged statue".  The only other faint possibility is the sword of the High Lord Turrak, but that one had a heron on it, Rand's new on does not. 

 

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, this could possibly fulfill the somewhat obscure reference in The Cycle of the Dragon where it says "Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us." 

 

 

Just had to get that out there officialy, if it was mentioned elswhere, sorry for my repitition...

[Krimzin]

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, this could possibly fulfill the somewhat obscure reference in The Cycle of the Dragon where it says "Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us." 

Just had to get that out there officialy, if it was mentioned elswhere, sorry for my repitition...

 

Bravo! I read through the catalog of the Karatheon Cycle myself and was unable to find a reference to Justice.

[jemron]

The thing that is weird to me about the sword being Justice (though I do agree that it is Justice) is that I totally expected that little tidbit to be directly revealed later in the book after one of the mods on dragonmount.com had specifically said that it was Justice (and they said they had read the book).

 

It surprises me that they told everybody that it was Justice on this forum but that actual fact wasn't mentioned specifically later in the book like I assumed based on their response.  While all evidence points to it being Justice, technically it is not a definitive answer yet.  It is possible that some people could still speculate on it.

 

Why didn't BS/RJ just tell us straight out?  Does it have more of a role to fill, or was it just BS's way of giving his new sword that he got from RJ's collection a cameo?

[elmis]

Why didn't BS/RJ just tell us straight out?  Does it have more of a role to fill, or was it just BS's way of giving his new sword that he got from RJ's collection a cameo?

 

I personally think it's more of a nod to RJ, than something that will have a true impact on the series. By the end of tGS Rand makes his choice that Callandor will be his weapon of choice - I doubt we'll see much more sword fighting from him.

 

Would be cool if Mat recognizes the sword though. :)

 

Mat: Dude, what are you doing with Hawkwings sword?! Got some bad memories with that sword! 

[Krimzin]

The thing that is weird to me about the sword being Justice (though I do agree that it is Justice) is that I totally expected that little tidbit to be directly revealed later in the book after one of the mods on dragonmount.com had specifically said that it was Justice (and they said they had read the book).

 

It surprises me that they told everybody that it was Justice on this forum but that actual fact wasn't mentioned specifically later in the book like I assumed based on their response.  While all evidence points to it being Justice, technically it is not a definitive answer yet.  It is possible that some people could still speculate on it.

 

Why didn't BS/RJ just tell us straight out?  Does it have more of a role to fill, or was it just BS's way of giving his new sword that he got from RJ's collection a cameo?

 

It may or may not have more of a role to fill. The fact that Rand carries it at all is in-and-of-itself fulfilling its role as was prophesied.

 

It is a running theme for the series to not tell you straight out how things appear at first glance.

[jemron]

The thing that is weird to me about the sword being Justice (though I do agree that it is Justice) is that I totally expected that little tidbit to be directly revealed later in the book after one of the mods on dragonmount.com had specifically said that it was Justice (and they said they had read the book).

 

It surprises me that they told everybody that it was Justice on this forum but that actual fact wasn't mentioned specifically later in the book like I assumed based on their response.  While all evidence points to it being Justice, technically it is not a definitive answer yet.  It is possible that some people could still speculate on it.

 

Why didn't BS/RJ just tell us straight out?  Does it have more of a role to fill, or was it just BS's way of giving his new sword that he got from RJ's collection a cameo?

 

It may or may not have more of a role to fill. The fact that Rand carries it at all is in-and-of-itself fulfilling its role as was prophesied.

 

It is a running theme for the series to not tell you straight out how things appear at first glance.

 

Yeah, at first glance.  But surely by the end of the book it would've been made more clear?  Of course, technically this is just the first part of a larger book, so maybe it still will have its "reveal" moment in one of the next two volumes.

 

I like the idea that Mat says, "What are you doing with Artur Hawkwing's sword?!"  Very cool thought.

 

I still think it will have a role to play in his eventual alliance with the Seanchan.  Maybe it will be a gift that he will give them after the Empress Fortuona kneels to him?

 

That would be cool if that was some sort of great Seanchan Omen or something.

[Luckers]

On the subject of something small being significant--in LoC Nynaeve and Elayne use Need and end up in the angreal storehouse--the same angreal storehouse that thanks to Egwene has begun to see light.

 

So my thought about what was small, and overlooked, but may end up being significant, is that Nynaeve and Elayne were using Need to find something to help Rand. They decided against using anything in that store room because it was inaccessable, and ended up finding the Bowl of the Winds--but I wonder, what was the thing in there that would have helped Rand--more than that, helped Rand and kept the Salidar Aes Sedai from returning to Elaida?

[Declan]

In reference to whether a channeler could stop a bullet:

 

very unlikely. a bullet travels much too fast even if they can grasp the OP in less than a heart beat; which is not fast enough. They would have to be ready for it beforehand.

 

On another note. I have seen the "industrial revolution" coming in Randland for a long time now. Ever since Rand issued orders to build that school in Cairhein and saw that train in Tear. It will be interesting to see how much innovation is sped up during the war since battle always creates necessity for new things.

 

Dragons will be awesome to see in battle against Trollocs....

[SinisterDeath]

In reference to whether a channeler could stop a bullet:

 

very unlikely. a bullet travels much too fast even if they can grasp the OP in less than a heart beat; which is not fast enough. They would have to be ready for it beforehand.

 

On another note. I have seen the "industrial revolution" coming in Randland for a long time now. Ever since Rand issued orders to build that school in Cairhein and saw that train in Tear. It will be interesting to see how much innovation is sped up during the war since battle always creates necessity for new things.

 

Dragons will be awesome to see in battle against Trollocs....

 

Aww, but you forget, that the guns they'll be facing, are nowhere near the velocities of modern guns.

 

Closest answer I can find for the velocity of early canons and Matchlock riffles is around 1400 feet per second. And theres no proof that mats versions even fire 'near' that velocity. (Specially if they are made out of copper, and I believe these 'giant dragons' that allundra is making, aren't acutally riffles, or canons, but merely 'holders' for eitehr something closer to Mortar rounds, or even 'missles' (think bottle rockets.)

 

Now the speed of sound is 1125 Feet per second. So obviously a channeler would 'not' be able to 'hear' the round coming, And if it did travel at 1400 feet per second, and the 'shooter' were at say, 100 yards, or 300 feet, that round would take 0.78s to arrive, and about 0.22 seconds later the sound will arrive. But theres anotehr factor. All early riffles/canons are VERY bright muzzle flash and smoke, And that is 'instantanious'. So if the shooter is 'infront' of say, Rand, rand can see the smoke and set up a 'shield' well before the round arrives.

+ If you See a guy pointing something like that at you, thats even more time to set up the shield.

 

If he's behind? Not a chance. Dead Meat.

 

Now, if my theory is correct that these are actually going to be closer to 'mortars', your looking at a range of velocities, anywhere from 200ft/s to 1100ft/s. Those are 'well' within the timefame from a channeler to hear and react to a incoming round.

But again this all depends on the channeler, how accute there senses are, if they are already in the void, or if they are already channeling.

If they get hit, they are dead. Thats indispitable... Who was it that said that aes sedia bleed like everyone else when hit by an arrow?

 

Speaking of Arrows, they go around 850ft/s. (at least long bows)

 

The main advantage the bow has is it lacks sound/visual that the early guns did, making it a 'silent' killer. (course how many channelers have stopped an arrow just hearing it come at them?)

 

Anyways, Alundra asked mat about Bellfounders...

 

heres why.

 

Course, canons and early mortar are virtually the same thing. And I suspect that her orginal hand-held-dragons used earlier were very similar to mortar, in that they used exploding rounds. But its been awhile since I read that chapter... But I suspect she has more up her sleeve than just simple 'hand mortar', and probably going to get some upgraded bigger mortar to. :P

 

Course if a fireworks lady knows anything, she knows mortar.

http://www.vipfireworks.us/Mortar_Racks.htm

[Declan]

Yes the older muzzle loading rifles do shoot a lot slower than their modern counterparts. Point taken.

 

Aludra's cannons are going to be big. or at least her first generation of dragons are. I cannot recall the exact quote but Mat was looking over the plans and was thinking how large they are. He then asked if they could be pulled by horses. So I'm leaning towards that they will be full on cannons. not so much mortars. Although I am sure those will come quickly. If she hasn't drawn those up as well.

 

I wonder, and hope not, if Mat will become quasi-Seanchan and shave his head. Fortuana seems to be pretty adamant about that; although I think he will get away with it with the Last Battle looming. If he does will that mean that he could take the reigns of commanding their forces. might be interesting...

 

If Mat survives, which i think he has the best chance, he could become like the next Artur Hawkwing.

[SinisterDeath]

Yes the older muzzle loading rifles do shoot a lot slower than their modern counterparts. Point taken.

 

Aludra's cannons are going to be big. or at least her first generation of dragons are. I cannot recall the exact quote but Mat was looking over the plans and was thinking how large they are. He then asked if they could be pulled by horses. So I'm leaning towards that they will be full on cannons. not so much mortars. Although I am sure those will come quickly. If she hasn't drawn those up as well.

 

I wonder, and hope not, if Mat will become quasi-Seanchan and shave his head. Fortuana seems to be pretty adamant about that; although I think he will get away with it with the Last Battle looming. If he does will that mean that he could take the reigns of commanding their forces. might be interesting...

 

If Mat survives, which i think he has the best chance, he could become like the next Artur Hawkwing.

 

Well, theres not a 'whole' lot of difference between mortar and cannon quite frankly. The major, major difference is, that a mortar can fire rounds at a far lower velocity. (they use trajectory instead of a straight shot, ironically mortar can get longer range than a canon. ;))

But heres the major part.

 

Allundra is talking about using Copper to make her 'large' dragons.

 

Copper is not strong enough for a canon.

But a Mortar? they are definately strong enough for those.

Why?

Modern fireworks (mortar type) use cardboard tubes. Similar process to cannons, but the pressures are far, far lower, and don't require anywhere near the amount of 'strength'.

Also, consider that virtually all those really, really, really large fireworks that you see, are mortar style, the rounds are actually 'explosive'... Take that into Dragon-mortar-canons, with explosive shells, huge amounts of shrapnel, and you got a weapon that is acutally designed to take out 'infantry'... I doubt that the 'shadow' is going to have much in the form of 'walls' to destroy, and we know canons aren't really all that 'great' for taking out people... but a giant 'shotgun'? Oooh boy thats going to destroy anything that gets into its path. Not to mention the 'fireworks' effect will cause massive panic. ;)

 

Course, the benefit to this option is all the rounds are self contained, and hte people using them don't have to 'pack' the barrel like they have to with canons, which = massive time saving. ;)

[Dave al Lan]

This book answered many questions for me, but raised so many new ones. I'll just list them off in whatever random order they come to me now.  ;D

 

1. The reason Siuan and Bryne had to stay close to each other to survive - answered.

2. The fate of the Prophet - answered (very nicely).

3. The Seanchan prophecy of Rand bowing to the Crystal throne is, I believe, false; but how can Rand bind the Daughter of the Nine Moons to him, if she's "dead" since Tuon became Empress, may she live forever?

4. Rand's reaction to seeing life under Seanchan rule was a big surprise to me. Will this ultimately lead to a truce, allowing for a unified front against the Dark One?

5. Where are the gholam, Isam/Slayer, and Taim? Speaking of Taim, could he be a *new* chosen, raised to replace a balefired one? He's certainly more significant than the average darkfriend....

6. I LOVED the way the question of Verin's allegiance was answered.

7. BIG QUESTION: One of the female forsaken (Graendal?) speculates of Demandred that he could have become the dragon himself! Not sure how to take that at all. (sorry for no page numbers).

8. Now that we see the extent of Rand's bond to Moridin - M's hand aching, Rand accidentally visiting M's dreams, Rand reaching the TP (perhaps) - how was this effected by the crossing of balefire streams, and what will happen when they try to kill each other?

9. Answered: The Dark One can't be destroyed (according to Moridin). All those theories about him being killed and replaced by Fain, etc. are officially out the window. And where is Fain? For all those who think Fain will play a Gollum-like role in the end, maybe Fain's evil will be the buffer needed between the Dark One and the new seal/healing of the bore.

10: Answered: I always wondered when the main characters would start telling each other seemingly important things. Heck, even Moridin let slip a particularly useful tidbit about the only way to really kill a forsaken. Oops!

11: Question: Why can't anyone spell Shydar Herrin? It's really not that hard.

12: Is Min's viewing of Nynaeve mourning over a corpse referring to Rand's death?

13: Can Rand stop the effects of the TP? We see the effect it has on his ta'veren-ness -- causing food to instantly spoil and all the random freak accidents to be bad. Will these continue?

14: Rand finally realizes the possibility of Ilyena being reborn. So was she? I vote for Elayne. I remember Lanfear had some pretty derogatory things to say about Ilyena right before falling through that redstone doorway, and nobody but Rand likes Elayne....

15: Question: Egwene once Dreamed about Gawyn having to make a decision, and if he made the wrong one she'd die. The "rescue" has happened, but Gawyn never seems to have had that crisis. Did I miss it, or is it still future?

 

 

 

[Eleint]

15: Question: Egwene once Dreamed about Gawyn having to make a decision, and if he made the wrong one she'd die. The "rescue" has happened, but Gawyn never seems to have had that crisis. Did I miss it, or is it still future?

 

There are four? of those inviso-Seanchan warriors in the Tower still.  It /could/ be that his decision was leaving the White Tower forces and thus going to rescue her.  Without him coming, one of those could have happened upon Egwene and thus slain her.

 

However, I find that a bit easy.  I didn't mind the Gareth/Siuan thing as Min sees small things as well as large, but Dreaming, like Prophecies, seem to focus on major league things.  I think it more likely that it will happen in the future, with again those four inviso-Seanchan.  Maybe Gawyn has to choose between going after Rand and staying with Egwene, or something.

[erickm001]

 

 

Allundra is talking about using Copper to make her 'large' dragons.

 

Copper is not strong enough for a canon.

 

No, Alludra was talking about copper and tin, which make bronze, which was the primary alloy for black power cannon. Google it and you'll find tons of pictures.

[Jeromy]

 

Speaking of Arrows, they go around 850ft/s. (at least long bows)

 

 

???

my high end compound bow with ultra light carbon arrows only shoots 320 ft/s.

[Declan]

This book answered many questions for me, but raised so many new ones. I'll just list them off in whatever random order they come to me now.  ;D

 

1. The reason Siuan and Bryne had to stay close to each other to survive - answered.

2. The fate of the Prophet - answered (very nicely).

3. The Seanchan prophecy of Rand bowing to the Crystal throne is, I believe, false; but how can Rand bind the Daughter of the Nine Moons to him, if she's "dead" since Tuon became Empress, may she live forever?

4. Rand's reaction to seeing life under Seanchan rule was a big surprise to me. Will this ultimately lead to a truce, allowing for a unified front against the Dark One?

5. Where are the gholam, Isam/Slayer, and Taim? Speaking of Taim, could he be a *new* chosen, raised to replace a balefired one? He's certainly more significant than the average darkfriend....

6. I LOVED the way the question of Verin's allegiance was answered.

7. BIG QUESTION: One of the female forsaken (Graendal?) speculates of Demandred that he could have become the dragon himself! Not sure how to take that at all. (sorry for no page numbers).

8. Now that we see the extent of Rand's bond to Moridin - M's hand aching, Rand accidentally visiting M's dreams, Rand reaching the TP (perhaps) - how was this effected by the crossing of balefire streams, and what will happen when they try to kill each other?

9. Answered: The Dark One can't be destroyed (according to Moridin). All those theories about him being killed and replaced by Fain, etc. are officially out the window. And where is Fain? For all those who think Fain will play a Gollum-like role in the end, maybe Fain's evil will be the buffer needed between the Dark One and the new seal/healing of the bore.

10: Answered: I always wondered when the main characters would start telling each other seemingly important things. Heck, even Moridin let slip a particularly useful tidbit about the only way to really kill a forsaken. Oops!

11: Question: Why can't anyone spell Shydar Herrin? It's really not that hard.

12: Is Min's viewing of Nynaeve mourning over a corpse referring to Rand's death?

13: Can Rand stop the effects of the TP? We see the effect it has on his ta'veren-ness -- causing food to instantly spoil and all the random freak accidents to be bad. Will these continue?

14: Rand finally realizes the possibility of Ilyena being reborn. So was she? I vote for Elayne. I remember Lanfear had some pretty derogatory things to say about Ilyena right before falling through that redstone doorway, and nobody but Rand likes Elayne....

15: Question: Egwene once Dreamed about Gawyn having to make a decision, and if he made the wrong one she'd die. The "rescue" has happened, but Gawyn never seems to have had that crisis. Did I miss it, or is it still future?

 

 

 

to #3: it actualy says "bind the Nine Moons" not daughter of. This has come up alot on Rand's thread and it seems to be the answer that the Court of the Nine Moons refers to the whole imperial family.

#5: I almost positive we will catch up with those guys in the next book. I do not think Taim has been raised since he has never been to any meetings involving the rest of the forsaken. I'm thinking he is working directly underneath of one of them. Obvious choice is Demandred.

#11: apparently Shaidar Haran is very difficult to spell. lol.

#12: Could be Rand or it could be Lan. might not find out till the end.

#14: As unpopular as Elayne is Aveindha is her first-sister so there must be love there. And you definitely can't trust Lanfear. I hope we don't ever find out if she was reborn or not.

[Sid]

I'm wondering if anyone else noticed on page 472 that Cadsuane lies through her teeth (albeit sarcastically) in response to her innkeeper/info contact's mention of Aiel in the city. 

 

Her response: "I hadn't noticed."

 

I'm assuming that it's just a little sloppy writing, but it could mean something about her oaths.  If she was bound by the first oath she'd have choked on that sentence before she could say it.  She wasn't mentioned on the BA list and Verin was happy that she could "finally be sure of Cadsuane" in Far Madding.  I almost wish she'd used the vial anyway after reading the last few books...

 

Sarcasm is not prohibited by the three oaths.  Suian does exactly the same thing in the scene where she sends Egwene to hunt the BA (at least I believe it is that scene). 

 

I was unaware that sarcasm was a way to completely defy the first oath.  I can imagine that something like "if you don't shape up I'll make you wish your mother and father never met" could be subjective enough to be speakable, but what Cadsuane says seems too directly untrue.  To me, it seems like too big of an oversight to just leave alone.

 

I did reread the scenes at the tower in TDR, and didn't notice anything Siuan said that was nearly as direct of a lie but I might have overlooked something.  Anyone have a quote for me?

[deathgate]

Maybe Ilyena is reborn as one of Rand's children. Would be a different kind of love.

[jemron]

Maybe Ilyena is reborn as one of Rand's children. Would be a different kind of love.

 

Weird... But possible?  Honestly, I don't think it matters who she is.  I hope that Avi, Elayne, and Min aren't somehow her in three bodies.  That's too weird for me too.

[Declan]

i dont think RJ would get that weird on us. I think he meant for things to start wrapping up and others just to never be solved from here on out. Illyena inn three different bodies isn't his style i believe.

[Majsju]

I'm wondering if anyone else noticed on page 472 that Cadsuane lies through her teeth (albeit sarcastically) in response to her innkeeper/info contact's mention of Aiel in the city. 

 

Her response: "I hadn't noticed."

 

I'm assuming that it's just a little sloppy writing, but it could mean something about her oaths.  If she was bound by the first oath she'd have choked on that sentence before she could say it.  She wasn't mentioned on the BA list and Verin was happy that she could "finally be sure of Cadsuane" in Far Madding.  I almost wish she'd used the vial anyway after reading the last few books...

 

Sarcasm is not prohibited by the three oaths.  Suian does exactly the same thing in the scene where she sends Egwene to hunt the BA (at least I believe it is that scene). 

 

I was unaware that sarcasm was a way to completely defy the first oath.  I can imagine that something like "if you don't shape up I'll make you wish your mother and father never met" could be subjective enough to be speakable, but what Cadsuane says seems too directly untrue.  To me, it seems like too big of an oversight to just leave alone.

 

I did reread the scenes at the tower in TDR, and didn't notice anything Siuan said that was nearly as direct of a lie but I might have overlooked something.  Anyone have a quote for me?

 

Voila!

For Majsju, the oath against lying does leave room for sarcasm.  It is intent and result that matter.  No sister can intentionally speak an untruth either with the intent of passing on false information or with the belief that false information might be passed on.  Thus the careful slicing and dicing of words.  But if someone were to hold up a piece of white cloth and ask whether it was black or white, someone who had sworn the Three Oaths would be capable of saying that it was black as a matter of sarcasm.  But not if, for example, the person asking the question was blind and thus might well take the statement for truth rather than sarcasm.

From the blog, january 06.

 

i dont think RJ would get that weird on us. I think he meant for things to start wrapping up and others just to never be solved from here on out. Illyena inn three different bodies isn't his style i believe.

 

Not only not his style, according to RJ a soul can not be split, so it is impossible.

[Declan]

As of now, we still don't have confirmation of Asmodean's killer, correct? I hope that does not wait to be revealed till the last book. That would be lame.

 

I kind of dig the idea that Ilyena is born as one of Rand's children.

[Alannin]

5. Where are the gholam, Isam/Slayer, and Taim? Speaking of Taim, could he be a *new* chosen, raised to replace a balefired one? He's certainly more significant than the average darkfriend....

 

The gholam hasn't been seen in a while, but I would think it is still after Mat.  Isam is in the Tower of Ghenjei, I would presume.  As for Taim, he's a Dreadlord for sure.  I believe he's Demandred's proxy and has been given knowledge to help train more Dreadlords among the Asha'man.

 

7. BIG QUESTION: One of the female forsaken (Graendal?) speculates of Demandred that he could have become the dragon himself! Not sure how to take that at all. (sorry for no page numbers).

 

He could have been the General leading the forces of the Light during the AoL rather than Lews Therin; if it hadn't been for his hatred and jealousy of LTT.

 

11: Question: Why can't anyone spell Shydar Herrin? It's really not that hard.

 

I hope this was sarcasm. It's Shaidar Haran.  ??? :P

 

15: Question: Egwene once Dreamed about Gawyn having to make a decision, and if he made the wrong one she'd die. The "rescue" has happened, but Gawyn never seems to have had that crisis. Did I miss it, or is it still future?

 

I believe the decision Gawyn has to make is to give up his hatred of Rand.  Gawyn still believes he has to kill Rand to avenge his mother's death and protect Elayne.