Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Sentinel78]

LTT's memories seeping into Rand's mind has happened over the course of 7 books...  Believing Rand's epiphany on Dragonmount will result in complete access to memories from thousands of past lives in addition to LTT is...... a stretch.  I'm in the 'moment of clarity' camp.  LTT's voice in his Rand's head at the very end indicating that Rand has a second chance and rebirth is not punishment was a gift from the Creator, as was the momentary recognition of past lives to essentially prove the point.

 

In other words, it's not as if Rand will suddenly be able to figure out how to use the three sea-shells.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

I, on the other hand, fail to understand why do so many people try to connect the Lord of the Rings with the Wheel of Time? These are two separate series! Cut it off already!

Besides, Veins of Gold is such a good chapter because you can feel the actual pressure on Rand's shoulders. I've begun rereading the books (the first ones) and now I see how impossible it looks for Rand to defeat the DO. In TGS, he is so concentrated, he is so determined.. He looks so strong! Veins of Gold shows that he is still that shepherd from the inside. To me, it is like running in a dark tunnel for a couple of days with only a small amount of water and food. Rand endures a catharsis. He finally reaches the end of the tunnel and feels the fresh air and the sun touching him. He said it multiple times in TGS. Everybody is trying to put him in a box. He finally got out of the box of being pushed to some place without understanding why.

Maybe you haven't been able to grasp the symbolism of this chapter and that's why you think this chapter is not a great one. Maybe you've never been held in a box.

 

I asked for an answer not a lecture lol. i wasn't drawing comparison between the storylines of the 2 series, as there is none, but it is used often as a comparison due to it being the first major "epic" or "high" fantasy, and sets a pretty good bench mark. it's a comparison on the writing technique that utilises familiarity between the reader/characters that i was comparing. And, yes, i grasp the symbolism, it was slapped in my face by the book. as for his apparent strength in TGS, i felt he was at his weakest. He succumbs to temptation(True source), breaks the one rule that has maintained his one shred of humanity, and realised the futility of trying to survive the last battle, the last few books pretty much drill in how bad everything is, only to have it all torn down in a few paragraphs.  And what would me being in a box do to my opinion of this chapter? not much i think :)

[singogreatest360]

It was a great chapter for several reasons. My favorite reason is Rand questions the meaning of "Life" and came to the same conclusion i did years ago! LOVE!

 

Love of family and friends is the meaning of life. imo

[Morsmordre]

I, on the other hand, fail to understand why do so many people try to connect the Lord of the Rings with the Wheel of Time? These are two separate series! Cut it off already!

Besides, Veins of Gold is such a good chapter because you can feel the actual pressure on Rand's shoulders. I've begun rereading the books (the first ones) and now I see how impossible it looks for Rand to defeat the DO. In TGS, he is so concentrated, he is so determined.. He looks so strong! Veins of Gold shows that he is still that shepherd from the inside. To me, it is like running in a dark tunnel for a couple of days with only a small amount of water and food. Rand endures a catharsis. He finally reaches the end of the tunnel and feels the fresh air and the sun touching him. He said it multiple times in TGS. Everybody is trying to put him in a box. He finally got out of the box of being pushed to some place without understanding why.

Maybe you haven't been able to grasp the symbolism of this chapter and that's why you think this chapter is not a great one. Maybe you've never been held in a box.

 

I asked for an answer not a lecture lol. i wasn't drawing comparison between the storylines of the 2 series, as there is none, but it is used often as a comparison due to it being the first major "epic" or "high" fantasy, and sets a pretty good bench mark. it's a comparison on the writing technique that utilises familiarity between the reader/characters that i was comparing. And, yes, i grasp the symbolism, it was slapped in my face by the book. as for his apparent strength in TGS, i felt he was at his weakest. He succumbs to temptation(True source), breaks the one rule that has maintained his one shred of humanity, and realised the futility of trying to survive the last battle, the last few books pretty much drill in how bad everything is, only to have it all torn down in a few paragraphs.  And what would me being in a box do to my opinion of this chapter? not much i think :)

 

I meant no disrespect :) Sometimes my tone is a little harsh... Unintentionally... Whatever, to me the lack of purpose is like a box and Rand clearly lacks the reason to go to battle. The effect of realization was immense to him and destroyed that box. You being in a box is irrelevant. I was trying to prove a point but somehow I think we both agree on it but with different words :)

 

Supposing Rand has gained access to the True Power by his link to Moridin. He obviously heard some of Moridin's thoughts (as we saw in KoD when he was thinking about the Creator). Does that mean that Rand could gain insight on Moridin's memories as well?

[aunt_pol]

 

I for one think Rand's memories will go one of three ways...

Like Mat, interspersed with his own, like Birgitte, fading, or like Moiraine says of her experience with the rings in Rhuidean, fragments remaining, with built in triggers for pertinent moments later on.

 

As regards to the problem of HippyRand & the Last Battle, I think TG will be very different than anything we've been led to believe.

Of course there'll be loadsa killing, faithfully sorted by Mat, Lan, Bashere, Ituralde, Galad and prob lots of other people.

I think Rand's role is gonna be somethin else entirely... It can't be a massive display of Saidin, or he'd never have destroyed the CK, wouldn't have served the story at all. I'm feeling my way here, but I'm guessing perhaps (don't shout at me) RJ's wartime experience, supplemented by world superpower behaviour/tantrums ever since will mean it's not the biggest fist that wins the fight. It's got to be love & brains. Or something.

[Morsmordre]

Yes, but why the hell did this woolheaded shepherd destroy the Choedan Kal :( WHY!?

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

as a lesson to the nuclear powers? as i seem to remember, werent channellers created after a nuclear war? might have been in the guide though. It just seems that a lot of the series is spent saying that war is not a good thing, and that power corrupts.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

we have another 2 books, and an encyclopaedia to come. most of the logic/philosophical questions would, in all likelyhood, be in the encyclopaedia methinks?

 

  ok, ive been reading a lot in this and other threads about veins of gold, and lots of people seem to like it a lot. all i ask is why, in particular, do people like this chapter so much? or even dislike it? for myself, i dont see it as a great chapter. it kinda detracted from the grimdark feel that had been building up over the last few books. it was getting to the point where it was actually concievable that the bad guys could win the last battle. now it feels less so, and this is a bit upsetting for me personally. one of the reasons i love the series so much is the sheer amount of fallibility in rand, as opposed to other heros in fantasy books. we all know frodo's character could have done with a bit of madness :)

 

 

 

I detest that series.

 

What we all really know is that Frodo really could have done with getting out and meeting some girls instead of hanging around with that god forsaken "I'll carry you master" softy Sam.

[aunt_pol]

 

As regards LOTR, I always wondered why Gandalf didn't just use that whopping great bird to fly them to Mordor to incinerate the feckin' ring in the first place.

 

Just sayin...

[singogreatest360]

Gandalf really wasn't very good at long term planning. He should have already had a plan. Hire a dragon for transport or something.

 

Regarding the Last battle im guessing the destruction of the Choedan Kal is a sign that Rand won't be fighting much in this series or maybe he will and CK was too insanely powerful for him to have a descent fight with.

 

First he needs to do something about that sickness or he'll be at a disadvantage whatever the circumstances unless he holds the power before EVERY threat.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

The thing that got me is that he doesn't even try to get rid of the sickness, no milkthistle or anything.

[Morsmordre]

Maybe Rand stilled himself... 'the power linked out'..?

[yoniy0]

I'm of the opinion that Veins of Gold isn't that good. Kind of cheesy, like something out of a David Eddings book (don't get me wrong, Eddings was my favorite author when I was younger, but that's just the thing, now isn't it?)

[Auld Manriva]

Oh, I liked Veins of Gold very much. I was muttering "You Go Boyeeee" in my car whilst listening to the audiobook. Maybe some was to do with Michael Kramer's reading, I don't know.

 

Rand burnt himself out? I don't think so. My guess is we're going to see a supremely more confident Rand now. One who can grasp the OP in gunslinger fashion easily now, even when it's not an unthinking reaction to a perceived threat as has been the case. He does not hear LTT now, that means he's rid himself of the crutch he made for himself (the LTT persona) to deal with the memories that came upon him at "maturity" so to speak.

 

Far from burn out, I think he's now going to be what the Forsaken have feared all along. The one who can snuff any of em' without a thought. The now "actual" Lord of the Morning, who presided over the AoL Aes Sedai through force of personality, skill with people and all that kind of thing. If not when he "comes down from the mountain" then real bloody soon after.

 

Whoa...*chuckle* The biblical symbolism just occurred to me. Moses, Jesus of Nazareth, Muhammed and other prophetic types wandering in the wilderness, having their "moments" etc.

 

Is Rand gonna croak before he "sets foot in the promised land"? Sacrifice himself for humanity? Or will he "rule" for a time, setting things in motion for another advancement of civilization... The last is what I'd like to see

 

[lordofsoup]

Rand burnt himself out? I don't think so. My guess is we're going to see a supremely more confident Rand now. One who can grasp the OP in gunslinger fashion easily now, even when it's not an unthinking reaction to a perceived threat as has been the case. He does not hear LTT now, that means he's rid himself of the crutch he made for himself (the LTT persona) to deal with the memories that came upon him at "maturity" so to speak.

Far from burn out, I think he's now going to be what the Forsaken have feared all along. The one who can snuff any of em' without a thought. The now "actual" Lord of the Morning, who presided over the AoL Aes Sedai through force of personality, skill with people and all that kind of thing. If not when he "comes down from the mountain" then real bloody soon after.

i agree, but there was something nice about dark rand, i dont think the new one would have the guts to balefire the crap out of Greandal. 

[Shard]

 

As regards LOTR, I always wondered why Gandalf didn't just use that whopping great bird to fly them to Mordor to incinerate the feckin' ring in the first place.

 

Just sayin...

 

I think the flaming eye of Suaron is why not. It's easy to hide a some small band going over land, alot harder to hide giant eagles flying into your lands. Also Sauron had flyers himself.

[TheAngryDruid]

 

As regards LOTR, I always wondered why Gandalf didn't just use that whopping great bird to fly them to Mordor to incinerate the feckin' ring in the first place.

 

Just sayin...

 

Well, I think the Ringwraiths on their flying mounts would have had them for breakfast. Or at least had a good shot at it. Gandalf wanted to stay close to the Ring to protect Frodo with his presence. At least for as long as he could.

 

Aragorn moving to attack Mordor, with Gandalf, was the correct play that opened the door for Frodo go get through. Though they didn't think of it originally, it was the ONLY play they had. It worked particularly well since Aragorn wrestled control of the Palantir away from Sauron before they marched.

[Auld Manriva]

Rand burnt himself out? I don't think so. My guess is we're going to see a supremely more confident Rand now. One who can grasp the OP in gunslinger fashion easily now, even when it's not an unthinking reaction to a perceived threat as has been the case. He does not hear LTT now, that means he's rid himself of the crutch he made for himself (the LTT persona) to deal with the memories that came upon him at "maturity" so to speak.

Far from burn out, I think he's now going to be what the Forsaken have feared all along. The one who can snuff any of em' without a thought. The now "actual" Lord of the Morning, who presided over the AoL Aes Sedai through force of personality, skill with people and all that kind of thing. If not when he "comes down from the mountain" then real bloody soon after.

i agree, but there was something nice about dark rand, i dont think the new one would have the guts to balefire the crap out of Greandal. 

 

Oh I don't buy that at all. Far from "going to San Francisco with flowers in his hair", I think Rand will be hell on wheels to any bugger who needs a bit o'killin whatever their gender. I don't think he's gone hippy-dippy weatherman, I just think he understands why the Battle always needs fighting."Love is the Answer" doesn't necessarily make one a panty waist. Super Torchin' Semi, Elsa and Graendal was kinda what set him on the Road to Dragonmount. The remaining three and any BA who cross his path had better watch their step.

 

Perrin I was thinking a few minutes ago, was the last of the Ta'veren to have an issue with harming whoa!men still, but now I think if he ever got a hold of Galina I think even he would twist her head off and spit down her neck. OK maybe not, but he might watch Faile do it  ;D

[yoniy0]

Perrin I was thinking a few minutes ago, was the last of the Ta'veren to have an issue with harming whoa!men still, but now I think if he ever got a hold of Galina I think even he would twist her head off and spit down her neck. OK maybe not, but he might watch Faile do it  ;D

 

Hmm, what makes you say that? I don't remember seeing Perrin worrying over killing women, when it needs doing (might be wrong about that. I don't remember seeing anything to the contrary). Mat, on the other hand, promised himself after ordering the death of Seta (as far as I know, the second woman he ever killed) that he wouldn't do that again (a decision which would cost his life, if it weren't for Tuon, at that alley fight).

I agree, however, that Rand probably won't go back to the way he used to be with women. Hopefully, he'll get rid of that list he has, as well, or he'll end up crazy again sooner or later (I have an idea, that Moiraine's return might help him do that).

[sumquy]

I think Rand's character is going to revert back to the type of guy he was in Far Madding. He wasn't angry they just needed killing, but applied out over everything he does. He sees now that his anger and fear drove him down into that dark place and he's cured himself of that, but that doesn't mean he doesn't still have a job to do. He's just not gonna let that job eat up his soul anymore. It's not personal, it's just business.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Three birds, three, he simply can not die yet. He knows it and every male reader knows it and so did RJ and so does BS. Rand can not die until he gets the "three wives become naked" prophesy fufilled.

[wingedearth]

Three birds, three, he simply can not die yet. He knows it and every male reader knows it and so did RJ and so does BS. Rand can not die until he gets the "three wives become naked" prophesy fufilled.

 

He has already slept with Aviendha, Elayne, and Min. Prophecy fulfilled. They don't have to be "wives", but they all love him and they've had to share him.

[ed2funy]

Together.

They must be together. ;)

[Impressive Bosom]

Together.

They must be together. ;)

 

Even if Rand isn't there, as far as I'm concerned.  :-*

[ed2funy]

Together.

They must be together. ;)

 

Even if Rand isn't there, as far as I'm concerned.  :-*

 

*Agrees wholeheartedly*

;D