Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[OptimusPrime]

You know, Rand spends a bit of TGS wearing red and black.

 

Yeah, right from the start! Also, when Rand thought to himself he needs to kill the Dark One so the endless cycle wont continue I instantly thought of Ishamael. I think the whole personality blending aspect of Rand is very well done and TGS shows just how far it has gone.

 

Now, add the following two thoughts together:

 

I wonder. All the memories Rand claims to possess. How do we know some of those are not shadows of Moridins memories?

 

and

 

Yeah they still need to worry about some of those channelers and their mental health(the damge done before the cleansing).

 

Then take into account three become one, which could very well be Rand/Lews/Elan, and THEN remember that Rand can now use the True Power, and THEN remember that Elan Healed Lews from Taint madness with the True Power, we might have a scenario where Rand discovers how to Heal the Ashaman from the effects of the Taint.

[Wantanswers]

I found this on Encyclopeada WoT:

Guide - The Crystal Throne is, in fact, a ter'angreal that inspires awe in all who approach.

[ed2funy]

If anyone remembers the Prolouge in tEotW where Ishy heals Rand, he says:

"A pity fro you," he mused, "that one of your Sisters is not here. I was never very skilled at Healing, and I follow a different power now. But even one of them could only give you a few lucid minutes, if you did not destroy her first...But Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know. Be healed Lews Therin!"

 

So, I just wanted to say that insanity can be temporarily Healed, and maybe someone can find a permanent solution.

It is not just the True Power that can Heal insanity.

 

[Morsmordre]

I was thinking of Rand's wound made by Ishy. Lanfear Healed him but she obviously didn't do her work well or she was not enough skilled with the Healing. Nyneave stumbles upon something. Maybe this 'something' is an inverted weave that prevents the wound from being Healed. Alivia fought Lanfear (Cyndane) during the cleansing of saidin and Lanfear used inverted weaves. Cadsuane notices that Alivia remembers everything she sees. There is a great deal of possibility that Alivia has learned how to invert her weaves and even how to make them appear again. I think this will be her role with Rand.

[Wantanswers]

In the Acceptron Rand asked Egwene to give him a knife, so he could kill himself. She refused that. Since I read Min's vision that Alivia will help him to die, I wondered if she would give that knife to Rand. A simple solution van be the right one.

[Dakota]

 

Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken; that the owner was a woman was as much as she could pick out of that, and not a thing more. (tFoH, What can be learned from dreams)

 

Sitting on that throne he won't have any difficulties to bind the Nine Moons

 

I always thought that this was in reference to when Rand was ruling in Caemlyn in Elayne's name until she took over.  He may have never physically sat in the throne itself, but for all intents and purposes he assumed the throne and ruled the country till she returned.  And Elayne was quite angry indeed when she found out that he had been running the country and the whole 'What does he mean he'll -give- me the throne?!' thing.

[OptimusPrime]

If anyone remembers the Prolouge in tEotW where Ishy heals Rand, he says:

"A pity fro you," he mused, "that one of your Sisters is not here. I was never very skilled at Healing, and I follow a different power now. But even one of them could only give you a few lucid minutes, if you did not destroy her first...But Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know. Be healed Lews Therin!"

 

So, I just wanted to say that insanity can be temporarily Healed, and maybe someone can find a permanent solution.

It is not just the True Power that can Heal insanity.

 

 

Yet from your own quote you can see that, as far as we know, the True Power is the only one that can Heal insanity permanently. From Ishys mouth, and he wasnt lying because Lews Therin WAS Healed. Unless you want to believe Ishy Compelled Lews to commit suicide, but I doubt it very much.

[dflinn]

I didnt take that as Lews being permanently healed. Just the same few lucid moments. Long enough for him to realize what he had done and to kill himself. The difference was the pain.

[Wantanswers]

Quote

Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken; that the owner was a woman was as much as she could pick out of that, and not a thing more. (tFoH, What can be learned from dreams)

 

Sitting on that throne he won't have any difficulties to bind the Nine Moons

 

 

I always thought that this was in reference to when Rand was ruling in Caemlyn in Elayne's name until she took over.  He may have never physically sat in the throne itself, but for all intents and purposes he assumed the throne and ruled the country till she returned.  And Elayne was quite angry indeed when she found out that he had been running the country and the whole 'What does he mean he'll -give- me the throne?!' thing.

Would Elayne have been murderously angry at him. I think she had rather kissed him, when they met.

[OptimusPrime]

I didnt take that as Lews being permanently healed. Just the same few lucid moments. Long enough for him to realize what he had done and to kill himself. The difference was the pain.

 

"A pity fro you," he mused, "that one of your Sisters is not here. I was never very skilled at Healing, and I follow a different power now. But even one of them could only give you a few lucid minutes, if you did not destroy her first...But Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know. Be healed Lews Therin!"

 

No, Elan says "even one of them could only give you a few lucid moments but Shaitans healing is different." As if the second sentence relates to the first. As in, "they cant Heal you, but I can."

 

A few lucid moments would not be enough to realize what you had done, Travel and commit suicide.

[ed2funy]

Minutes...not moments.

That surely was a few minutes.

 

But, that is not my point. I do not remember where, but someone had put up a quote from RJ (I think) that said it wasn't exactly healing him as much as something else that let him be sane.

"But Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know"

 

Anyways, if Saidar (and maybe even Saidin) could Heal him for a few minutes, there could be a permanent solution.

 

[lordofsoup]

It stands to reason that the TP could heal Lews Therin of the effects of the Taint.  The TP is the DO's own escence, and it was used to create the Taint in the First place.  Since they come from the same source, it is reasonable that you could undo with the TP what the TP did. 

 

Anyway, i think that Ishmael was trying one last time to convert the DR to the DO, by showing him what he had done, and the DO was the only thing that could bring them back.  Unfortunately for Ishmael, Lews Therin just killed himself.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Tip of the day - the best, and in my opinion only, way to safely remove Blu-Tac from your walls without damaging the surface, leaving any behind and at the same removing the greasy smear as much as is possible is by using more Blu-Tac,

 

I'd say that there is every chance you can take the taint out of a person by sucking it out. If you were healing cancer say the TP could be like a big magnet and just suck the cancer into itself, while the OP would have to try and actually heal it.

 

Ken what a mean?

[Michelleharper]

Wow, it only took me three days to read this thread.  Wow.  I would like to say, Aunt Pol, you are great.

 

Okay, Rand. Poor guy, I hope he doesn't have to swap bodies with Moridin because I'd just like Rand's soul to be in Rand's body.  His body's got through the toughest times he's ever had, and will ever have, so why won't it be good enough for after Tarmon Gaidon?

 

Anyway, maybe in the next book, Egwene will realize she and Rand can *gasp* work together and combine the Aes Sedai and Ash'man to create the most amazing feats of this Age.  And if the Dragon Reborn faces the Amyrlin Seat and knows her dispeasure, can the Amyrlin Seat face the Dragon Reborn and know is displeasure?  I am tired of Egwene being the "holier than though" Aes Sedai, "We must guide everyone..."  That's BS.

    I am currently reading Winter's Heart, and all Aes Sedai are making me mad with how they treat the Asha'man and the rulers of Far Madding, most notably Cadsuane.  Maybe, now that Cadsuane failed in keeping the Domination Band safe and Rand threatened her with his overbearing dark Ta'veran act, she's he a little....different.

 

It would be nice, like Min said, if someone would just say, "Rand, you're the Lord Dragon, Dragon Reborn, etc..., how can I help you?"  Since Moiraine drug the boy from the Two Rivers, everyone has acted like the can't put his shoes on the right feet without help, with the exception of a few people like Lan, and as much as I hate her, Min.

 

Now, as to Rand's epiphany: Don't forget Cadsuane and Sorilea discussing the difference between strength and hardness.  Hard tends to shatter, but strenth can bend without breaking.  Rand will have the strength to deal with the Forsaken and meet his destiny head on, but also have to strength to admit is okay to cry if someone dies.  And I don't necessarily mean cry everytime, but he will be able to admit, not only to himself but others that is okay to feel sad, to doubt, and even be afraid at times.  He will realize he has the strength to mourn and then belt on his sword and kick some Forsaken butt!!!  (Yes, i know he's lost a hand and won't be fighting with his sword.  Yes, the kicking of the Forsaken butt will most likely dying of the Forsaken, and hopefully Mazrim Taim.

 

I can't wait until he learns he's going to be a dad, because I think it will help him with this lesson that Cadsuane is supposed to teach him and the Asha'man.

 

By the way, I can't stand Min.  Did I say that already?  At least she spoke up for Rand.  Sheesh!  I'd be stubborn and mule-headed if someone tried to push me where I didn't want to go.  I don't blame Rand in the slightest. 

 

Long windedness over.  BTW, how do so many of you post on so many threads and keep convo's up the way you do?  Took me three days to read this one thread!!!!!!

[Durinax]

Long windedness over.  BTW, how do so many of you post on so many threads and keep convo's up the way you do?  Took me three days to read this one thread!!!!!!

well I for one log on quite frequently when I am on a computer (which is often)

 

as for the rest of your post I totally agree, I also think that the prophecy about knowing the amyrlins anger will result in the AS superiority being humbled once and for all.

[Sharaman]

Tip of the day - the best, and in my opinion only, way to safely remove Blu-Tac from your walls without damaging the surface, leaving any behind and at the same removing the greasy smear as much as is possible is by using more Blu-Tac,

 

I'd say that there is every chance you can take the taint out of a person by sucking it out. If you were healing cancer say the TP could be like a big magnet and just suck the cancer into itself, while the OP would have to try and actually heal it.

 

Ken what a mean?

 

See, maybe the physical cause of the lunacy can be removed. But it's already influenced the guy into thinking in weird ways for long periods and breaking that pattern may be more difficult. What Elan did was give LTT rationality, not sanity, which is slightly different.

You can be rational without being sane though the other way around is more difficult to achieve.

We've seen this problem in real-life where a long-term depressive who's on say, prozac has the chemical issues cleared up but still continues to behave weirdly because he/she has got into a negative pattern. 

[OptimusPrime]

Tip of the day - the best, and in my opinion only, way to safely remove Blu-Tac from your walls without damaging the surface, leaving any behind and at the same removing the greasy smear as much as is possible is by using more Blu-Tac,

 

I'd say that there is every chance you can take the taint out of a person by sucking it out. If you were healing cancer say the TP could be like a big magnet and just suck the cancer into itself, while the OP would have to try and actually heal it.

 

Ken what a mean?

 

See, maybe the physical cause of the lunacy can be removed. But it's already influenced the guy into thinking in weird ways for long periods and breaking that pattern may be more difficult. What Elan did was give LTT rationality, not sanity, which is slightly different.

You can be rational without being sane though the other way around is more difficult to achieve.

We've seen this problem in real-life where a long-term depressive who's on say, prozac has the chemical issues cleared up but still continues to behave weirdly because he/she has got into a negative pattern. 

 

Nah, the rationality thing to me sounds like the "lucid" thing Elan said. As someone else said (I forget who, but I had seem them post before  ;D) that it does stand to reason that the True Power could heal the Taint as both inevitably come from the same source.

 

AND Moiraine said in Eye of the World that Rand would cure a madness, not prevent it from getting worse. He hasnt healed ANYTHING yet

[ranjitb]

And if the Dragon Reborn faces the Amyrlin Seat and knows her dispeasure, can the Amyrlin Seat face the Dragon Reborn and know is displeasure?

 

Er, have you completely forgotten which series you are reading ? Even in the highly unlikely scenario that Rand is displeased with Egwene, every other female character will promptly start snorting, sniffing, woolheading, and "Sheepherder !"ing him until he is whipped into showing proper deference to The Mother.

 

AND Moiraine said in Eye of the World that Rand would cure a madness, not prevent it from getting worse. He hasnt healed ANYTHING yet

 

The Karatheon Cycle says he will "break the bonds of madness", which is suitably apocryphal sounding for a prophecy. The cleansing of Saiding makes sure that no more male channelers will go mad, or get any worse than they are. Those too far gone (like Fedwin Morr) will still have to be euthanised. The prophecy does not mean he will literally "cure" someone - they are never that literal.

 

 

[metaphor]

 

Er, have you completely forgotten which series you are reading ? Even in the highly unlikely scenario that Rand is displeased with Egwene, every other female character will promptly start snorting, sniffing, woolheading, and "Sheepherder !"ing him until he is whipped into showing proper deference to The Mother.

 

 

 

NAh. One of the plots of the series seems to be the removal of barriers between the sexes, so it's seems possible various female channelers will side with him. The Wise Ones, Alivia, some of those sworn to him.

Also, the foretelling says he'll know of the Amyrlin's displeasure, not that he'll be affected by it in the slightest  ;D

 

I was thinking, one of Egwene's dreams show him sitting on a chair and the whoman to whom it belonged is murderously angry with him. I always assumed her to be Morgase, but what if Rand, being  as arrogant as he is, and remembering of when he was the leader of both male and female AS goes and sits on the Amyrlyn's Seat? That's sure oughta make Egwene furious, and I would really like to see that scene  ;D

 

[aunt_pol]

 

 

Specially when Mat already did that to her, back in Salidar!!

[ranjitb]

One of the plots of the series seems to be the removal of barriers between the sexes, so it's seems possible various female channelers will side with him. The Wise Ones, Alivia, some of those sworn to him. Also, the foretelling says he'll know of the Amyrlin's displeasure, not that he'll be affected by it in the slightest

 

Well, we can hope.

I am apprehensive of course, that the new, improved, laughing and tearing Rand (as seen at in VoG) will spend the vast majority of the rest of his life eating crow and apologizing to people for treating them as badly as he had been lately. Whether any of them will ever apologize for (let alone acknowledge) how badly everyone treats HIM remains to be seen.

 

one of Egwene's dreams show him sitting on a chair and the whoman to whom it belonged is murderously angry with him

 

I do have to agree with everyone who thinks this has to do with how the Andorian succession was handled - after Rand took over Camelyn with a zillion or so Aiel, it was expected that he would crown himself, but he named Elayne as Queen.

(Again, god forbid that Elayne ever acknowledges she had diddly squat right to the throne at that point, or ever learn that Rand's hereditary right to the throne is superior to her own.)

[metaphor]

 

 

Specially when Mat already did that to her, back in Salidar!!

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that  :D

 

 

 

Well, we can hope.

I am apprehensive of course, that the new, improved, laughing and tearing Rand (as seen at in VoG) will spend the vast majority of the rest of his life eating crow and apologizing to people for treating them as badly as he had been lately. Whether any of them will ever apologize for (let alone acknowledge) how badly everyone treats HIM remains to be seen.

 

Before he was hard, now he has become strong. Which means, more similar to Cadsuane, Egwene, Sorilean, Tuon, Lan.

And hopefully laugh in their faces like he tdid in books 4 through 8.

[OptimusPrime]

And if the Dragon Reborn faces the Amyrlin Seat and knows her dispeasure, can the Amyrlin Seat face the Dragon Reborn and know is displeasure?

 

Er, have you completely forgotten which series you are reading ? Even in the highly unlikely scenario that Rand is displeased with Egwene, every other female character will promptly start snorting, sniffing, woolheading, and "Sheepherder !"ing him until he is whipped into showing proper deference to The Mother.

 

 

Er, have you read TGS? Only that bit you said goes against a scene where Rand talks about Egwene right at the start of the book.

 

AND Moiraine said in Eye of the World that Rand would cure a madness, not prevent it from getting worse. He hasnt healed ANYTHING yet

 

The Karatheon Cycle says he will "break the bonds of madness", which is suitably apocryphal sounding for a prophecy. The cleansing of Saiding makes sure that no more male channelers will go mad, or get any worse than they are. Those too far gone (like Fedwin Morr) will still have to be euthanised. The prophecy does not mean he will literally "cure" someone - they are never that literal.

 

Lets have a look at what the prophecy really says.

 

He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf. He shall bind the nine moons to serve him. He will heal wounds of madness and cutting of hope.

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,52111.12.html

 

He will heal the wounds of madness and cutting of hope. The cleansing was the cutting of hope being healed, because now men can channel safely again. They arent always literal, but each section means something.

[mb]

Someone in the 'simple question, simple answer' thread suggested that I post my question here.

Copied it from my post.

 

Various characters saw a darkness around Rand.  What was that due to?

My guesses would be these:

-him channeling (what the Forsaken call) the True Power

-something Semirhage or Elza did to him

-him being collared by the male adam

 

[witsd]

Can someone better than me list these characters?

 

Cadsuane and Tuon spring to mind, and it does occur to me that they are both either channellers or able to learn, which might be a factor.

 

It occurs to me that at least one Forsaken has wondered whether Moridin was holding the TP, so it seems unlikely that there are any visible characteristics from that.