Aes Sedai damane

[scott_swampy]

This may have been dealt with already but if so I couldn’t find it.

 

I was rereading PoD and WH in preparation for TGS and, of the top of my head, I can think of at least four Aes Sedai damane in those two books alone. My question to you wise ones out there is this: Given the three oaths, how can Aes Sedai damane even do the training with the sul'dam let alone go into battle for the Seanchan? To do this they would have to use the One as a weapon. And in training especial there is no way they could channel for their sul’dam until they were about to die if they did other wise. And this isn’t some behaviour to be broken, it is a force action, there is no way around it for them.

 

Thoughts?

 

[Mr Ares]

They can't use the OP as a weapon, is the answer. In the books, it's mentioned that the Seanchan cannot make them tell lies, or otherwise break the Three Oaths. Of course, there are other uses for damane besides weapons (finding ores, making a'dam, skylights, etc.), but the main thing is to collar the marath'damane. It is more important they be collared than anything useful be done with them, because they are too dangerous to be let free.

[pxnsolid]

But thats not to say they cant learn the weaves. Aes Sedai cant use the power as a weapon, xcepting the known, well, xceptions, but thats not to say they cant learn the weaves to make those weapons.

[kasper11]

Well, they could be used for defense.  A nice air shield to prevent arrows from coming through would be helpful.

 

Or, they could be put in the front lines where they would have no choice but to use the one power as a weapon in defense of their own lives.

[mb]

Healing is another use for damane.

 

Well, they could be used for defense.  A nice air shield to prevent arrows from coming through would be helpful.

Unless the enemy knows (and uses) balefire.

Also, keeping them & channeling from within them is not possible.

 

[ROB_88]

are damane ever really used for healing?

i mean, if i understand it right, the Seanchan see damane as horrid dirty creatures, and the power is dangerous, would a Seanchan want that same damane to lay their hands on them and let the Power run through them?

[mb]

are damane ever really used for healing?

i mean, if i understand it right, the Seanchan see damane as horrid dirty creatures, and the power is dangerous, would a Seanchan want that same damane to lay their hands on them and let the Power run through them?

I recall Tuon (heir to the Seanchan throne) mentioning Healing to Mat (forgot exact passage).  She seemed to approve of the practice.

 

Dangerous creatures seem to the Seanchan's view of channelers not yet collared, not of collared channelers.

 

[Arath Faringal]

The Seanchan damane didn't appear to know about healing at all.  It wasn't until they captured Aes Sedai in the Westlands that they learned of it.  The Seanchan soldiers seem a bit wary about it.  It 'sounds' like a good idea, so long as it's happening to someone else.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

They can use the power as a weapon against shadowspawn and to save the life of their warders.  Tuon used one of the Damane to predict her future.  When she was fortold about Matt. 

[Blackhoof]

What would the Seanchans opinion of Warders be?

 

Oh, and as for the healing thing, would you let your pet dog heal you?

[scott_swampy]

What would the Seanchans opinion of Warders be?

 

Oh, and as for the healing thing, would you let your pet dog heal you?

Depends if the dog is magic.

 

What is going to happen, though, when they try to use them in a real battle? To this point there hasn’t been a battle that they have been need in. But what if, for example they try to use them in the attack on the WT? Will they be able to help even if they are attacked first? I ask because the oath is to only use the OP as a weapon... in defence of another sister’s life. But what if it is your sister that is attacking you?

 

[ROB_88]

i highly doubt that the Seanchan will be stupid enough to use Aes Sedai damane in the Tower battle, maybe make them look on as a way to break those who are still resisting but not use them.

 

in this perticilar case i would compare it to when Rome used foreign troops, if they had Gaul soldiers they never let them fight other Gauls, they would ship them out to Carthage or something

[ErikTheBald]

Tuon has in her posession one of the first Aes Sedai taken as Damane.  This is the Yellow whose capture Bayle Domon describes to Nynaeve and Elayne during their negotiations for escape prior to the battle at falme.  The Seanchan killed the Warder and the Sul'dam shielded the Aes Sedai who screams at one to the damane being used to shield her as though she recognizes her as another Aes Sedai.  I believe this is the one renamed by the Sul'dam as Pura.

[Blackhoof]

I reckon one of the conditions of the alliance between Rand and the Seanchan will be for them too release all non-seanchan damane.

[Luckers]

I reckon one of the conditions of the alliance between Rand and the Seanchan will be for them too release all non-seanchan damane.

 

Neither Tuon nor the Aes Sedai damane will accept that. He might try, but Tuon will say no, and the damane will back her.

 

No, I think Rand will simply ask that there be no new leashings, and let the Seanchan keep those they already have. My guess is that it is that which Egwene gets angry about thus fulfilling Elaida's foretelling about Rand facing the Amyrlin and 'knowing her anger'.

 

 

[mb]

Neither Tuon nor the Aes Sedai damane will accept that. He might try, but Tuon will say no, and the damane will back her.

Not all Aes Sedia made damane want to remain damane.  Mat rescued 2 of them; there might be more.  A portion of the ones that will be captured at the White Tower might not want to be damane either.

 

 

No new leashings might be the general rule; Black Ajah & other darkfriend channelers might be exceptions.  Channelers that have done severe crimes might be another exception.  Light sided channelers that give permission might be another.

 

[Muad Cheade]

But then again, with the 500 Shaido Wise Ones that are now damane, the Seanchan may be willing to give up former Aes Sedai who are useless in battles since they now have a fresh batch of channnelers with no restrictions on combat.

[Jemlin]

But then again, with the 500 Shaido Wise Ones that are now damane, the Seanchan may be willing to give up former Aes Sedai who are useless in battles since they now have a fresh batch of channnelers with no restrictions on combat.

 

I sure hope those Wise One channelers give the Seanchan trouble.  I recall that the Windfinders seemed to be very resistant Damanes, due to their strong cultural background.  The Wise Ones seem to be no exception, and also, have the act of "embracing pain", which is the Sul'dam's main tool for training and weakening the will of the collared ones. 

 

Also, lets remember, that its possible one of the Aes Sedai captured might slip the info that the Three Oaths can be removed via the Oath Rod.  I am not sure if this was well known (I seem to recall that the Reds in the WT who were hunting for Black Ajah didn't know the Oath Road was successful in releasting the oaths until they tested...I think).  However, if it becomes known among the Seanchan, its another reason why a stealth (from air) attack on the White Tower might be conducted.  Release the collared Aes Sedai from the Oaths and not only can they be used as Weapons, but you release them from the main thing they use to even define themselves as Aes Sedai. 

[Muad Cheade]

I sure hope those Wise One channelers give the Seanchan trouble.  I recall that the Windfinders seemed to be very resistant Damanes, due to their strong cultural background.  The Wise Ones seem to be no exception, and also, have the act of "embracing pain", which is the Sul'dam's main tool for training and weakening the will of the collared ones.

 

Yeah, but is it necessary for a damane to be "broken" before the adam can be used successfully on her? I always thought that the suldam could channel through the damane as long as the adam was on.

 

I may be wrong though. Never gave that issue much thought.

[Jemlin]

I sure hope those Wise One channelers give the Seanchan trouble.  I recall that the Windfinders seemed to be very resistant Damanes, due to their strong cultural background.  The Wise Ones seem to be no exception, and also, have the act of "embracing pain", which is the Sul'dam's main tool for training and weakening the will of the collared ones.

 

Yeah, but is it necessary for a damane to be "broken" before the adam can be used successfully on her? I always thought that the suldam could channel through the damane as long as the adam was on.

 

I may be wrong though. Never gave that issue much thought.

 

From my understanding, the only way a Sul'dam could "channel through the Damane" was if she was conscious of her own ability to Channel.  When Egwene was captured, and throughout her experience, I garnished the impression that, although the Sul'dam was incontrol, it was the Damane who was channeling and controlling the flows.  When Nyn captured Mogh., she was in control of the flows yes, but I think that had to do with her knowing how to channel herself and knowing the deeper intricacies of how the link in the A'dam worked.

 

[Luckers]

Neither Tuon nor the Aes Sedai damane will accept that. He might try, but Tuon will say no, and the damane will back her.

 

Not all Aes Sedia made damane want to remain damane.  Mat rescued 2 of them; there might be more.  A portion of the ones that will be captured at the White Tower might not want to be damane either.

 

 

I'm talking at the time of the agreement--Rand may push it in that meeting, but the any damane nearby will object just as strenuosly as Tuon would.

 

Myself, I don't think he'll push it too hard at all. He might make a gesture in that direction, she'll say no, he'll demand no new leashings--done.

 

No new leashings might be the general rule; Black Ajah & other darkfriend channelers might be exceptions.  Channelers that have done severe crimes might be another exception.  Light sided channelers that give permission might be another.

 

In the long run I could see him making an exception for darkfriends--the 'severe criminals' wouldn't be applicable. There own organisations would deal with them.

 

 

[Mashiara Sedai]

KoD p. 800 "Under and Oak" says:

 

Still, she (the sul'dam) could do nothing without Melitene (the damane), and she was useless as a weapon, a fact that made her hang her head when he pointed it out to the der'sul'dam.  She had needed consoling, her sul'dam petting her and telling her what beautiful Sky Lights she made, how wonderful her Healing was.

 

The Seanchan are well aware that the Aes Sedai can't be used as weapons, and so use them for other methods.  There is more to their empire than just fighting wars.

 

~Mashiara

[Blackhoof]

I know its not that probable, but the whole damane idea disgusts me; slavery is bad enough, the Seanchan brainwash the damane, so they want to be slaves, most of the new damane wont want to be released.

 

And as for the wise ones giving the seanchan trouble; the windfinders were tough, but they were on the verge of breaking when mat rescued them, the wise ones will resist, heavily, but ultimately they will be broken.

[Luckers]

The Windfinders weren't that tough--there is no basis for them to be strong. They have no training in resisting torture, no prior experience in enduring pain, I'd cite the Aes Sedai before that, and they were blindsided by their complete inability to expect such treatement.

 

The Wise Ones however have a knowledge of how to endure pain. They are better prepared than either Aes Sedai or Windfinder.

[Elgee]

And the Gai'shan tradition - the Wise Ones might never have been that themselves, but they would have absorbed the idea.