Why doesn't anyone care that the true source has been cleansed?

[Swigaro]

The last scene in KoD has Taim agreeing to let them bond Ashaman, and him saying 'Let the Lord of Chaos Rule'.  Hopefully, for their sake, they are allowed to pick ones outside of his faction and not end up bonded or taken before a circle of 13 Myrrdraal.

 

That may well be his idea.  Taim and company know that the fears that drove the Reds to approach him are mostly unfounded.  Whether they realize it or not, Taim and crew have the upper hand.  It could be even worse, though.  Taim clearly knows that Sadin is clean, and that the Aes Sedai who propose the bonding either don't know or don't believe.  I would bet that he also knows that a man holding Sadin can't be compelled (there is a good bit of circumstantial evidence that suggest Taim is Forsaken trained if not a New Chosen, himself).  If it is Taim's faction that gets bonded, we may very quickly see a counter for the sizable advantage of bonded Aes Sedai that Logain's faction posseses. 

[Blackhoof]

I was bummered that the whole cleansing saidin thing was not given more limelight. I expected Asa'man to be jumping up and down in joy and singing "Its clean, its clean, im not going to die!" And its annoying how rand ignores the Black Tower, i'm wrapped about the whole BT thing, but rand ignores it and sleeps with min. Honestly.

[Paviel]

The Rebel Hall knows that saidin is cleansed. Or at least, Jahar told them, and Merise backed him up (KoD, chapter 23). I guess they're too busy worrying about the siege to give much thought to the news.

[Aemon raHal]

Anyone remember the Underpants Gnomes episode from Southpark?

 

Stage 1- More power than has ever been used for any reason is channeled for over a day.  No one knows the reason why or who did it.

 

Stage 2- ???

 

Stage 3- The Source has been cleansed.

 

I thought I was the only one :D

 

 

 

I really hoped this would have been made a bigger deal of.

I'd rather have POV's on the fallout from the Cleansing than the Elayne and Perrin POV's in later books, but that's another story.

 

Rand should have been using it as a huge publicity stunt.

I know he really doesn't care about much except uniting nations and getting to TG, but had he spent a bot of time milking this, these tasks would have been much easier.

 

Get the Aes Sedai loyal to him to go visiting people with their Asha'man via Gateways and spreading the word - SAIDIN IS CLEAN thanks to Rand.

Same with sending the Asha'man to the Black Tower.

 

People will think

- wow, no need to worry about men going mad and breaking the world again.

- Aes Sedai trust the Asha'man

- The Dragon Reborn has been able to undo something the DO did, inspiring confidence

 

 

Anyway, publicity stunt opportunity lost.

 

 

 

[Kaznen]

Why I never understood was why the men kept it all hush hush.  I thought the black tower would have been celbrateing for days with AM "skylights" and such.  Then the men would travel all over RAndland and shout it from the roof tops.

 

Imagine if you had terminal cancer, then it suddenly went compltely away, not a trace left.  How would you react.

 

Something that's been shown in WoT is if enough people repeat and talk about lies it becomes the truth.  Everyone would be talking about this and men would march to the BT just for that.  Even if people say it isn't true they would think "but what if it is."

 

There would have been nothing the AS could have done to sweep it under the rug.

 

BTW: I don't think it is possible for men to become a modern AS.  Over 3000 of law and tradition against men have seen to that.  I personally think it more likely the AS become AM.

[Amayahoshi]

While i felt that the cleansing of Saidin was always going to happen ( else how can the Dark One taint it again when he is sealed up in a different Age?), I have to agree that I felt it would be greeted with a tad more interest than it has had.

 

To explain that, I think madly proclaiming that it is clean would get no where, which many have realized - they would need to have proof that noone can doubt. Else as mentioned before the response would be 'crazy person says what?'. Which is why I would argue that they have waited so long to approach the Egwene at el minus Egwene, so Merise could be sure. Someone quoted her earlier saying that 'anything at all could be hiding in there'.

 

Regards comments about Taim and his faction, the Dark Ones protection would negate the feel of the taint and as such they possibly were not aware until Logains faction mentioned it... if they infact have, as they were not on talking terms so I heard :p

 

Also about Rand not dealing with the Black Tower, I think he has an idea in mind about how to sort it out. Elaidas' Foretelling about the 'grounds of the Black Tower shall be rent with blood' or something to that effect that suggests to me that Rand will set Logain's faction against Taims - maybe even get involved himself - as afterall, what weapon is best equipped to combat men channeling!

 

Why has he left it a while? Maybe to give the ones who were going to go over the the Dark One, in fact go over. That way, after he has cleansed Saidin, there will be less chance of people going over purely to escape their fate. Also, the ones remaining he could be more sure about being loyal, as they saw their fate and chose to stick with Rand. I remember him being obsessed with the timing of events and such in earlier books, and ofc that may have been about his schemes up until then, but I doubt that they were his ONLY plans - he must have had a long term plan that would have been affected by the earlier events, and he could possibly be planning to root out the Taim et al in one go.

 

OR, he could just be ignorant of events in the Black Tower. Either way I think itll come down to ashaman vs ashaman.

 

Apologies for the essay, didnt plan on it being this long!

 

 

[Blackhoof]

I personally wouldn't like a huge battle like that. The budding Asha'man would lose half there number. I reckon rand will show up, kill Taim, set logain up as the new M'hael, and off he goes.

[Amayahoshi]

I reckon rand will show up, kill Taim, set logain up as the new M'hael, and off he goes.

 

I would be dissapointed if that was the case after the amount of time the Black Tower has been 'festering' and with it being such a key issue for Rand deal with, is he to strolled in, bonked Taim on the noggin and all be dandy.

 

At the least I'll settle for Rand, Logain and those Ashaman loyal to Rand outside the tower (Narishma et al, cant remember their names!) catching Taim and a few of his most loyal followers unawares and being all darkfriendy and them tearing up Taim, Taim's palace and some of his minions.

 

Im not sure the M'hael title will stay, I recall someone thinking that the title had troubling translations as it implied 'ruler of all or everything' or something like that. Just thought I'd throw that in there :D

[richnewton82]

.

[Charlz Guybon]

I personally wouldn't like a huge battle like that. The budding Asha'man would lose half there number. I reckon rand will show up, kill Taim, set logain up as the new M'hael, and off he goes.

I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a bloodbath where dozens if not hundreds of Ashaman are killed. The Shadow wants to cripple the Ashaman as an organization loyal to Rand. As many that can be turned will be, and the rest killed if possible. Logain will eventually defeat Taim in my opinion.

[Blackhoof]

I dont want all the asha'man to die! they should be on equal footing with the AS, not only have 3 guys left cause they killed each other.  :'(

[Arkelias]

I believe we'll see them integrated into the White Tower as full Aes Sedai before the series is over.  If you look at Elaida's fortelling the BT is doomed.  The surviving male channellers have to go somewhere, and the WT seems the logical choice. 

 

Plus, it would explain why Rand will kneel before the Amyrlin and know her wrath.

[mb]

'rent' in Elaida's Foretelling I take to be political division.

Nicola's Foretelling told that Ashaman and Aes Sedia would balance each other.

 

The wrath part of Elaida's Foretelling, I think that would relate more to he wanting a treaty with the Seanchan and/or to the belief of him doing Compulsion on those who swore fealty to him.

 

[Arkelias]

Those events explain why she'll be upset, but not how Rand will know her wrath.  I'm curious to see how or why that falls out.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Those events explain why she'll be upset, but not how Rand will know her wrath.  I'm curious to see how or why that falls out.

 

I always took the "Amyrlin" in that Fortelling to really mean Egwene.

[Arkelias]

I do too.  Its definitely not Elaida, that's for sure.

[Balefire to da face!]

Those events explain why she'll be upset, but not how Rand will know her wrath.  I'm curious to see how or why that falls out.

 

I always took the "Amyrlin" in that Fortelling to really mean Egwene.

 

Yeah, of all the cruel jokes Jordan has played on Elaida, this should turn out to be the best :D

[lordofsoup]

Those events explain why she'll be upset, but not how Rand will know her wrath.  I'm curious to see how or why that falls out.

 

I always took the "Amyrlin" in that Fortelling to really mean Egwene.

 

Yeah, of all the cruel jokes Jordan has played on Elaida, this should turn out to be the best :D

 

ya someone should just kill her and get it over with

[Amayahoshi]

Those events explain why she'll be upset, but not how Rand will know her wrath.  I'm curious to see how or why that falls out.

 

I always took the "Amyrlin" in that Fortelling to really mean Egwene.

 

Yeah, of all the cruel jokes Jordan has played on Elaida, this should turn out to be the best :D

 

I liked Elaidas' Fortelling of the White Tower being whole again and stronger than ever with her beleiving that she would be the Amyrlin and overcome Alviarin in the process, and using this as the core of her conviction when she was having private penance imposed by Alviarin :D

 

Btw, does anyone know where a list of all the Fortellings / Min's viewings / Egwene's Dreams live? Am not great at navigating sites, and don't want to create a new thread about a small thing - and as they were mentioned thought I'd ask!

[Locke]

Just visiting this site:  http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/.  It has a whole section for prohecies, viewings, etc.

 

I think Elaida's foretelling about the BT is going to be kind of like the WT with Logain vs. Taim.

I hope that Logain wins this, Egwene because the Amyrlin Seat, and then that Rand proposed an alliance between the two.

[Asgard Thorin]

Well CoT didn't have anything about it (We don't use that word here. --Kathana CoT), and I don't remember too much Asha'man stuff from KoD.  I think what happened is that the Asha'man who weren't there have a hard time believing a mortal could cleanse the Source.  Rand needs to start working the PR machine and rein the damn Asha'man back in while he's at it.  Either way, what Rand did is absolutely epic.  Also, I don't think too many of the Aes Sedai even know about it yet.  Maybe Rand will get his due yet.  I don't think he cares too much what people think about him though, which is admittedly badass but also impractical.

Also, I think Rand doesn't know who to brag to. It might be something he wants to keep to his vest. Remember, Rand's so paranoid right now he makes a Tairen Ferrymen look open and honest.

[Locke]

And considering Rand's other problems with the OP (from whatever happened with Moridin) he wouldn't be widely believed.  After 3000 years of Saidin being tainted if a guy came up to you and said it was clean and then started wavering around and looking sick, would you believe him?

 

Plus he has other things to do besides bragging about his accomplishments. That's not like Rand anyway

[Dunderdan]

This is an excellent thread. Id like to add that even though we - the readers - "know" its cleansed, its very difficult for most WoT characters to know it, EVEN if they concur the taint isnt present at the moment. If a terrible thunderstorm suddenly dies in a second, you could either assume the bad weather is over OR that its taking a deep breath.

 

What if you believe Rand to be crazy or evil - wouldnt you worry that he could reverse the effect? Hes already done something impossible. Or, if you think hes less competent, wouldnt you suspect its just a short temporary effect?

 

Given the range of alternative scenarios I wouldnt jump to any conclusions either. Id choose the careful, hesitant approach, waiting to see what the aftermath looks like. And if I were a Rand believer, I wouldnt want to cheer too soon, knowing TG is coming shortly.

 

Giving RJ the benefit of a doubt, I say we're seeing a mass reaction of chock and doubt.

 

[Arkelias]

You all make great points about how the news of the source being cleansed would be received, and that most people wouldn't believe it. 

 

I think more of my issue is that we, as the reader, haven't been privy to enough of these discussions.  We need to see more reaction from the world about this.

 

Most especially from the Asha'man.  Rand doesn't have to convince any of them the source is clean.  They already know. How could they not believe he is the one who did it?

[Knightscape]

Rand and his allies really need to spread the news of the cleansing.  Even if they are not believed initially, they still have to get the news out in order to get people thinking of the mere possibility that it really was changed.  Until this is done there is no reason for anyone to have any inclination that the cleansing took place.