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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Arkelias

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About Arkelias

  • Birthday 07/13/1976
  1. Be well Jason. Document the experience, and share it with us when you get back!
  2. I think this is one of the few major flaws in the series. It's obvious that RJ doesn't want us to know what's going on at the Black Tower, but the entire plot has been badly handled from the start. From Rand ignoring Logain's warning to him accepting Taim in the first place, we as the reader basically knew how things were going to play out from the very beginning. Anyone with half a brain realizes that there will be a bit of a civil war, after which Taim will be deposed and Logain will rise to power. Yet for book after book this subject has been ignored. For thousands of pages we've followed Perrin on his quest for Faile. We've watched Elayne take the throne of Andor. We've seen perspectives from many of the factions, including the Salidar Aes Sedai. Yet the black tower still hasn't been addressed over a decade and five books later. We still haven't seen the inevitable clash between Logain and Taim. We never saw how the revalation of the source being cleansed might effect life in the tower for your average dedicated or soldier. You think that perspective is unneccesary, and even called it a bit redudant. To me that scene would have been very, very gripping to read because it was something that as a reader I was very curious about. Obviously that's true of many other readers, as this complaint comes up on the boards often. I agree about RJ probably not wanting to give anything away. Whatever his intention though he did give a lot away. We all know the tower is a ripe recruiting grounds for darkfriends. We all knew nearly from the start that Taim was a darkfriend, so this was not a very great leap to make. Given how much we as the reader know it greatly surprises me that RJ didn't move this story line forward. Obviously much of the reader base wants to know what's going on there. Much more than we cared about Perrin's endless quest for Faile, or Elayne's taking of the throne of Andor. If you feel that showing the Asha'Man is redundant, couldn't you make the same argument about Perrin or Elayne? In both cases we knew exactly how the events would play out. And, in KoD they ended exactly as we expected with no surprises. Elayne ended up on the throne, and Perrin got Faile back. I don't understand how you can defend the repetition in this series, but then say that a part that's entirely missing is redundant. The endless descriptions of terciary characters was redundant, yet you seem ok with that. What's the difference? That's an honest question as I don't see it, and am curious if you do. How do we know they are happy? And how do we know what conclusions they are coming to? We haven't been told. People like myself are curious to know the answer, and would have greatly appreciated this being addressed. Cleansing the source was an epic event. It's reaction should have been equally epic. Many, many people were dearly hoping to see it addressed with the same flare as Rand becoming the Dragon Reborn and the Car'a'carn. We were disappointed when that didn't happen. Tegardless of what RJ intended, in this he erred. From book 7-10 many mistakes were made, this not the least of them. You're welcome to your opinion on that, but it doesn't invalidate those who feel otherwise. Thanks for keeping it civil Mr. Ares, you have no idea how much I appreciate that. I will make sure that my tone matches. I apologize for the vitriol in my earlier post. That was out of line.
  3. Removed. Argumentative. *steps down off his soapbox* Now back to the part of the discussion that still seems relevant. Ares said: In your opinion the reaction we got was reasonable. In mine it was not. I'm given point of views from farmers, random Aes Sedai, minor nobles and a host of others. I couldn't get one chapter from an Asha'man's perspective? I couldn't see his internal conflict and confusion? His gossamyr hope that the source has been cleansed, and the realization that if it truly has he won't go insane? We couldn't have one person (say Egwene) shocked to her core that such a feat could even be performed? Why didn't anyone react with shock? We've been told over and over by the time the cleansing happens that everyone believed it imposible. If something you believed completely impossible was done right after you felt enough power channeled to crack the world don't you think it might have a pretty big impact? From the lowest Soldier or Dedicated to the ranks of the Aes Sedai to the Windfinders to the Wise ones, everyone should have been profoundly shocked. The Asha'Man, though, should have had their entire world shifted on its axis. Imagine if you accepted eventual madness as the price for working with the power. You know it when you sign up with the Dragon Reborn, but you accept it because the last battle is coming. Suddenly the taint is gone. You have a glimmer of hope that maybe you can survive the last battle. Maybe you won't go mad. Don't you think this would have been a HUGE revelation for every male channeler in the world? Even some who turned to the shadow may have done so for protection from the taint, and it might cause them to rethink their allegiance. We saw none of that. Instead we got one comment from Logain saying that he didn't believe Rand cleansed the source. This was unsatisfying to me as the reader, because I would have expected Logain to have a more intelligent reaction. He's sworn to follow Rand which suggests he believes that Rand can defeat the Dark One. If he can do that why wouldn't he be able to cleanse the source? Especially knowing that on the same day Logain felt the source become clean he sensed more of the one power than anyone had ever felt. Is it really that short of a logical leap for him to go, "Hmm, Rand says he cleansed the source. On that day enough power was channeled to do that. Maybe, just maybe he managed to do it." You're welcome to your opinion Ares, but my position is more than just baseless criticism. RJ could have mined the cleansing for a lot more tension, and many readers would have enjoyed a much crisper emotional payoff. I know that you disagree with my stance, and that of others. But we are just as welcome as you are to have it. Why don't you see if you can argue against my points without telling me my opinion is worthless or just being a prick in general? We all like the Wheel of Time here. Do you think maybe you could treat us as a community of equals and friends instead of punching bags for your amusement?
  4. This is my first post here in a long time, but I had to break my silence after reading this thread. Unnassigned, if you search the boards you'll find a number of threads I posted that read very similarly to yours. The longest was about the second half of the series, and what I perceived as its flaws. In it I agreed with most of your points, particularly those in regards to books 7-10. As I'm sure you've already found the reaction on these boards nearly always goes the same way. You post a well thought out argument, Mr. Ares shows up to insult you and tell you why you don't have a right to your opinion and how pathetic your post is, and then his cronies chime in to support him. Don't let it get you down. There are many, many fanboys on these boards who will brook no criticism of the series regardless of how many people voice it. Every month or two someone like you or I will show up, but we're generally chased away pretty quickly. I just wanted you to know that there are people out there who agree with you. A lot of them. If you find yourself with free time wander over to Amazon and check the reviews on CoT, PoD or WH. You'll find quite a few people agreeing with you. Books 7-10 did take the focus off the action. The pace slowed, the cast of characters ballooned and the focal points of the books were things many fans were not interested in. The biggest sticking point I had is exactly the same as you. Why wasn't there any sort of emotional payoff for the reader after the source was cleansed? Part of the reason that CoT is the single most hated book in the series is that we all expected that topic to be a major part of it. Instead it was largely ignored, and three books later it still hasn't been given the attention it deserves. We still haven't seen the Black Tower's reaction. Those few who do comment are like 'eh, so he cleansed the source'like he was going to the store for a pack of cigarettes instead of accomplishing the impossible. Like you and many others I expected more, and was disappointed by it's absence. Regardless of what the fan boys will tell you this was obviously a problem. Otherwise, why did so many people react like we did? That said I loved the series as a whole and tGS specifically. I believe it's brought back the feel of the early books. So much so that I volunteered to help with the book signing tour, and even had Brandon sign my book 'From the man who saved the Wheel of Time.' It doesn't excuse the huge problems with the middle of the series, but if he can keep up the good work it means that the beginning and end will be amazing. I can forgive the slow middle as long as the ending justifies the faith I placed in the series when I first started reading back in 1994. Anyway keep your chin up and don't let the bastards grind you down!
  5. True, but RJ could have kept the necessary amount of detail and still cut a lot of descriptions. Especially from secondary characters. If you had to include them I would have appreciated less wordy descriptions of what they look like. I just don't see the need to know what every side/minor character is wearing and how much condensation is on the carafe of wine they are drinking from. Don't get me wrong I'm awed by the level of description, but it DOES eventually fade to white noise. Moreso when you are engrossed in the plot, but the plot doesn't move for hundreds of pages because of these descriptions. It's not that they don't belong in the series, but toning down the overall number of PoVs and cutting back on the description would have made for an improved text in my opinion. If you look at tGS that's the style Brandon used, and I love it. There is more plot in that book than any since The Shadow Rising, and that's because he didn't spend nearly as much time on secondary characters or on descriptions.
  6. Rob, I would have loved to ask him that question just to see what his reaction was. The good news is that I had an absolute blast meeting Harriet and Brandon. The bad news is was impossible to pin them in place long enough to get questions answered. I'll be posting a report complete with pictures by the end of the day, so at least you guys can see Bubbles the trolloc balloon and hear about everything that went on!
  7. Got it MB! I've updated my list of things to ask.
  8. Thanks for the answer Luckers! Oh and Rabbittmaster we already know Luckers is Demandred so no need to ask that. Ali, they were worried about their soldiers killing each other. Also, if perceive themselves as being in danger they can use the power. Put two Aes Sedai in the same area, and make them both feel in danger and they could kill each other.
  9. *scribbles down a list* I'm printing these all out for Brandon. I'll try and get answers for everyone. I figured there might be slow points during the signing where I can pester him! Ashaman, I think your question made sense and I'll ask it. Kathana if you mean figuratively smack him in the nose I'll take you up on it! My deck is evil. Evil I tell you >=) If he likes it enough I'm going to loan it to him for use against Brandon, as the rules of their contest state that they are using cards provided by friends and fans! If anyone is curious my question is regarding a certain castle that had a certain forsaken in it. I want to know if the 'punch in the face' scene was his idea or Jordan's.
  10. You got it Bob! I'll run both by Brandon. Kathana, I'll bring my magic deck and if need be I'll smack Jason into submission!
  11. Saturday is the big day! It's the last stop of the signing tour and my turn to work as a Stormleader. After the signing we will be going out to dinner with Brandon, Harriet, and our very own Jason. Does anyone have any questions that they want me to ask of Brandon? If there are spoilers involved feel free to PM me. I can't promise to ask everything, but I am going to do my best to pick his brain! We'll also be streaming the signing, and will have pictures up this Sunday!
  12. When Gawyn arrived at the White Tower he'd had training, but was far from a blademaster. They even make a point of saying how far above him Galad is, so you get the opinion that Galad is destined to be a sword master while Gawyn will be good at best. Then, a few months later Gawyn is besting master swordsmen. He's far better than warders who've been training (and fighting) all their lives. Warders are the cream of the crop and enhanced by the warder bond, and many of them are supposed to be the best of the best culled from the entire world. My point is that such improvement is unrealistic in that period of time. It makes sense for Galad to best warders, because we've been told he's a prodigy. Gawyn is the slower sibling with a fraction of the skill, or he was supposed to be anyway. When learning an activity like a sword much of your development comes quickly. What I mean is when you first start learning a lot of your potential is unlocked, and then you begin the slow process of mastering the blade much like a martial artist in modern day. Gawyn being trained by Gareth explains why he came to the WT at least decently trained. But remember the scenes with him in the practice yard, both what he has to say about Galad and him getting whupped by Mat. I just feel that his meteoric rise in skill is too quick. It needed to be there for the story, but feels a bit contrived because of the short span of time. That's not to say that he couldn't have killed Hammar. Hammar could have slipped in a patch of blood and Gawyn could have exploited that. So, that's not the issue. It's just his general level of skill. I can't say more than that or I risk spoilers =X Our Ta'veren and budding Aes Sedai are easier to swallow as they all have gimmicks that can explain their rise to power, though having it happen to each and every one of them is a bit much. I guess it feels as if none of the prexisting people in the WoT world mattered at all. The best swordsmen, Aes Sedai and generals were all chumps and losers, easily eclipsed by a bunch of untrained teenagers. None can stand before the might of the villagers who spend their entire lives shearing sheep and planting tabac =p But, in the end its fiction and such flaws are very easy to forgive. It's an excellent series, and if I wanted to read reality I'd pick up a newspaper. I just wanted to weight in on the issue, since the OP wasn't getting a lot of love from the community here.
  13. I spit soda bluecole >.< All over my monitor. I was -not- ready for that much funny packed into so few words. Razer, he's comparing our Bela to the Bella from Twilight.
  14. I'm taking the risk and posting even though I know that within a few hours Mr. Ares will appear and do a line by line dissection of my post. Afterwards I'll do the same, and within a few days this thread will be 19 pages long, 17 of which are he and I sniping at each other. Ok, now that my disclaimer is out of the way I wanted to put in my two cents about the short length of time the novels take place in. By and large this is fairly realistic, and many people in this thread have explained why. However, there is one thing about the brevity of the WoT that bugs the heck out of me. If you look at Rand he becomes a blademaster in a startlingly short amount of time, but this makes sense because Lews Therin is floating around in his head. So, I can buy how quickly he learns. What about people like Gawyn or Galad? I can almost swallow Galad as RJ made such a huge point about how much potential he had, and how quickly he learned. Yet when the younglings go to battle to stop Hammar from freeing Suian it is Gawyn that kills him, not Galad. How did Gawyn become such a master swordsman in such a short span of time? Every time we see him he's more dangerous, but when you break the timeline down at best it's been a bit over a year and a half since he first arrived at the White Tower. Later, Galad bests a swordmaster with years and years of experience. Despite having only used the sword for a few years. Rand, Mat and Perrin all become consumate badasses who can take down fades, blademasters, Aiel or any other military threat. Egwene, Elayne and Nyneave become some of the most powerful women in the white tower, even though its supposed to take years to pass Accepted and gain the shawl, then another 50-100 years as an Aes Sedai before you're considered experienced. Warders spend decades getting stronger. Swordmasters spend years training. In the short span of the books why is it that all of our characters became so skilled so quickly? It really doesn't make sense. I know its a minor gripe, but one that has bothered me. It's definitely a lack of realism, but as Sylvia said its fiction so I guess I should be more forgiving.
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