Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[ohaitharguiz]

How long do you guys expect ToM to be? We have A LOT to cover in this book. I'm thinking 1k+ for sure. If it was me writing about all of this stuff, this book would prob hit 1500 pages. But I am not a writer, so I can't be so sure.

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

Does anyone else think its suspicious that Sorelia (sp) is the only one Cadsuane showed the collar too right before it got stolen?

 

 

Both Bair & Sorilea are present for that.  Sorilea hisses that the domination band is evil.  Bair has a less marked reaction.

 

I wonder how much Cadsuane has trusted the other AS.  She didn't think at any point before showing the WO that she was the only one who knew where the band was.

 

Also, Sorilea is extremely weak in the OP.  I doubt she could channel enough to overcome Cadsuane's wards.

 

Conclusion:  Bair is a DF. We haven't seen enough Aiel DFs overall.

 

No matter how weak Sorilea is she is still infinitely stronger than Bair who can't channel at all.

 

 

There's another mystery bound up in Callandor. It's the only thing which can resist balefire. How is that possible?

 

 

That might have been a function of the amount of raw power Rand was channeling at that point. i.e., it might not be that Callandor deflects balefire, but that it's possible to deflect Balefire when you're using that much power.

 

Didn't that scene take place in tel'aran'rhiod, too? Rand might've been able to non-consciously manipulate the balefire via the World of Dreams.

 

Too many variables. Good subject for an author question, I think.

 

Yes, it did take place in tel'aran'rhiod, but we have seen no indication that channelling works any different there,

[randsc]

Quote

- Rand, being cured of insanity, will lay his ego aside and bow to Fortuona in a state of submission. This will forge the alliance between them and him.

 

Or maybe not. That's part of Ishamael-influenced prophecies.

isnt the real one about rand binding the 9 moons to him, I cant recall too well

 

So, Rand needs to be in a circle with two women to use Callandor, yes?

 

The collar and leashes that Semi and Elsa used on him effectively create a circle with him and two women, yes?

 

Tuon is an experienced damane, used to guiding the channeling of another, yes?

 

 

[Aeos]

Hey guys,

 

New to the forums as a poster, but I've been following for quite a while and I am shocked that none of you speculated and/or came across any reference to the title of the upcoming book "Towers of Midnight." Now, most people would rightly assume Midnight Tower = Black tower because there has to be a confrontation there soon. But unfortunately all these assumptions are probably wrong. (I say probably because I might, just might, be wrong too).

 

Now all die-hard fans should have at least looked at/read through/or own a copy of "The World of Robert Jordan's : The Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan (of course) and Teresa Patterson. I want to copy two excerpts from the book to provide new, hopefully true, insight into some of the events in the next book.

 

*To those of you that love the books, but hate reading long forum posts, stick with me*

 

In the section of the book on Seanchan, more specifically pg. 159. On the right side of the page shaded in a slightly yellow box is a very interesting side note to the history of the Seanchan. Here is how it is written:

 

    The First a'dam was made by an Aes Sedai, Deain, who brought it to Luthair paenDrag in an attempt to curry favor with him. She knew he had no Aes Sedai in his armies, and for the most part the Aes Sedai hated him. Deain believed the Luthair would eventually win and felt that she would be richly rewarded for bringing him a gift that could hand him the Power of the Aes Sedai, whilling or not. Several years after that, the first sul'dam were found---women who could learn the channel and had the spark, but could not actually channel without trainging. These women were considered ideal controllers of the damane, the Leashed Ones. For her trouble Deain was rewarded with imprisonment by her own device. She was, after all, Aes Sedai and thus not to be trusted. It is said her screams "shook the Towers of Midnight."

    Once the a'dam gained regular use, the title Aes Sedai disappeared completely from Seanchan, and those who could channel were renamed marath'damane, or Those Who Must Be Leashed.

 

So, one could obviously take from that the title of the next book is obviously a place, a place that certainly isn't the Black tower or the ToG. No, this place in on the continent of Seachan. Before I explain my theory let me give you an additional piece of information. This one is in the same section, but on pg. 162 left hand side of the page. It is the only other reference known to me of the Towers of Midnight. Please read:

 

    Both the Tower of Ravens and the Court of the Nine Moons are located in Seandar, the Imperial capital, located in the northeast of the Seanchan continent. Seandar is the largest city in the empire. The other major cities in descending order are: Kirendad, Noren, M'Shar, Asinbayar, Qirat, Imfaral (location of the Towers of Midnight), Sohima, T'zura, Anangor, Shon Kifar, and Rampore.

 

Now we have a city name, in which the Towers of Midnight exist. Looking at the map of Seanchan on pg. 157 (if you have the book) Imfaral is the northmost city in the middle. it also has underneath it, (Towers of Midnight) the only city on the map to have such distinction.

 

My theory is, that since the absolute last book is all about the Last Battle, that at the end of the next book. The Towers of Midnight are going to be where Rand and Fortuona make their pact, the question is why? The first excerpt shows the Towers of Midnight to be a place of pain and where she first got the collar put on. It is obviously not the Crystal Throne as shown in the second excerpt. So, to put two and two together... The Towers of Midnight are where all Damane are trained and taken when first collar. It is a painful place, dark as Midnight, one of enslavement. My opinion is that when Rand makes his treaty, part of his requirements are that all damane go free. This will be the biggest reveal of the next book by far. Not discounting the parts we all want to read ( go Mat and Thom! and as to the third man, it is either the little boy or the man who is playing snakes and foxes with the little boy in TGS)

 

Discuss and give feedback!

 

 

[roshan]

I'm curious to find out how and why Rand kneels to the Crystal Throne.  Will it be a literal kneeling in front of the throne (remember, it's in Seandar) or a figurative kneeling to Fortuona?  Remember, the Crystal Throne is a sa'angreal that causes extreme devotion to the throne's occupant (Fortuona).  Or could it be someone else there (in Seandar) by then?

[Aeos]

Well, I don't think the Seanchan prophecies can be entirely trusted. They are a little off sometimes. I think that their way of putting "Kneeling in front of the Crystal Throne" is put as a figurative kneeling in front of the Seanchan Empress.

[mike-cook]

next book should be interesting looking back to book 1 with mins first viewing of rand it was "A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood, lightning around you, some striking at you, some coming out of you. You and I will meet again." the sword that is not a sword is in book 3, crown of laurel leaves book 7, beggars staff book 12, so next book im thinking something big with the aiel...because one aiel prophecy is ""He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live." Also the iron i think has to do with elayne because she also had a viewing of a hot iron over top of her.

[Strykr017]

How long do you guys expect ToM to be? We have A LOT to cover in this book. I'm thinking 1k+ for sure. If it was me writing about all of this stuff, this book would prob hit 1500 pages. But I am not a writer, so I can't be so sure.

 

Sanderson has said that ToM is going to be a little longer than TGS, I believe. I expect it to be around 900-1000 pages, then. That'd put it up along with the other longest books in the series. There's definitely a lot to get done, you're right about that.

[Muad Cheade]

Things left to do:

 

The Borderlanders. Not an easy task as their position negates channeling and Rand isn't as hard as he once was I suppose.

 

Mat, Moiraine, the Finns, and Aludra's Dragons.. Probably going to be a major arch.

 

Elayne. Her coronation, the DarkFriends, and Black Ajah. Also, she apparently is going to help Mat with the Dragons as at the end of TGS he was in Caemlyn. She was completely absent from TGS.

 

Perrin. The Broken Crown (possibly have to do with the Borderlanders and Rand's meeting), Galad and the Whitecloaks, various other things.

 

Lan. His ride to Tarwin's Gap. Completely absent from TGS although referenced several times.

 

Demandred. It'd be nice to get a glimpse of what he's doing before aMoL.

 

The Black Tower, Taim, Logain, etc.

 

Before TGS, I thought the title was a reference to the four towers that are facing trouble and are covered in darkness: the White Tower, the Black Tower, the Tower of Ghenjei, and the Towers of Midnight (a reference to the Seanchan).

 

We know the Black Ajah has been cast out of the White Tower and it is now whole so that is eliminated. So that leaves:

 

1). The Asha'man- a large number who are most likely Darkfriends and have bonded Aes Sedai. Also note that the embassy that the Salidar Aes Sedai sent to the Black Tower never returned.

 

2). The Tower of Ghenjei- it's obviously important as Mat and Perrin will play the main roles of ToM, like Rand and Egwene did in TGS.

 

3). The Seanchan- they have been rejuvenated. The captured 200 Wise Ones (I wonder how the other Aiel will react to Perrin's necessary decision), captured a couple dozen of Aes Sedai (who can Travel! That's going to have reprucussions), and they are about to take control of Arad Doman and possibly Murandy and Illian (depending if Rand removes his army form the border.

[FortySix]

This is as much a hope as it is a speculation but what I really want to see is a wedding. We've plowed along with these same characters for over two decades. This wedding would be for all the lovers in the world: Rand and his ladies, Egwene and Gawyn, Siuan and Bryne, Moiraine and Thom, et all. Like the Baby Boom which happened as a result of the war ending, this will be a marriage boom with everyone knowing the oncoming battle will decide the fate of the pattern itself. With gateways allowing instant travel, all the characters can gather for one evening to forget about the coming struggle and to be reminded exactly what it is they're fighting for. This suits well with Rand's new take on life. It also pays homage to the fans who've followed this series for most of their lives by having the majority of characters together and having a send off for them.

[coteaz]

There's another mystery bound up in Callandor. It's the only thing which can resist balefire. How is that possible?

 

Wasn't that Because it had the OP coursing through it at the time?

[firstfishman]

1. Elayne, Gawyn, Morgase, Galad, Rand all sit down and come to terms.. Elayne has Rands babies, and he gets Aviehnda pregnant.

2. Perrin, Whitecloak, Faile, Wolves, etc

3. Logain kicking Taim and his darkfriend cronies out of the Black Tower

4. Matt assuming control over the ever victorious army as the prince of ravens, trading his eye for Moiraines release, finding out that Olver is Gaidal Cain and him getting some nookie off of Birgitte. I dont think Matt needs the horn anymore, as almost all the dead heroes have been reborn. (how do you call someones soul from his reborn shell to fight for you? They are already going to fight)

5. Thom giving the tinkers their song... I believe there was reference to him "finding a few paragraphs" of some long forgotten song. He will also get back togeather with Morgase.

6. Egwene finds and defeats Mesanna, uses her ter'angreal making talent to copy a bunch of sa'angreal, etc for use in the final battle, marries Gawyn and makes him her warder. Recruits the Wise Ones and takes control of the world of dreams.

7. Aviendha finds ter'angreal/sa'angreal that were missed with her talent and does something unexpected that helps everyone and earns her enough honor to marry Rand as his equal.

8. Mazrim Taim is, in fact, Damondred

9. Rand goes blind from developing Saa from his use of the True Power, releases all those sworn to him from their oaths and offers them the honor of being an equal instead of a follower. Tracks down Matt in the crystal throne room, offers Fortuona the free world in exchange for putting a stop to collaring people. He then kneels to her, and earns Matt as a general leading the Senchan. Rand will kill the gholam with the True Power.

10. Min figures out the secret to sealing the Dark Ones prison for good..

 

It's tough to decide whether you are joking, because you are really mixing reasonable ideas with a couple utterly ridiculous ones.

 

ideally gawyn should be stabbed in the heart by padan fain. God i hate him.

 

He and Egwene deserve each other  ;D

 

 

I bounce the ideas off the wall.... You discuss them... Which ones did you think were good/bad and for what reasons?

[coteaz]

I'm curious to find out how and why Rand kneels to the Crystal Throne.  Will it be a literal kneeling in front of the throne (remember, it's in Seandar) or a figurative kneeling to Fortuona?  Remember, the Crystal Throne is a sa'angreal that causes extreme devotion to the throne's occupant (Fortuona).  Or could it be someone else there (in Seandar) by then?

 

I doubt he will kneel, considering that particular prophecy is false.

[wotjunkie]

 

The First a'dam was made by an Aes Sedai, Deain, who brought it to Luthair

paenDrag in an attempt to curry favor with him. She knew he had no Aes Sedai in his

armies, and for the most part the Aes Sedai hated him. Deain believed the Luthair would

eventually win and felt that she would be richly rewarded for bringing him a gift that

could hand him the Power of the Aes Sedai, whilling or not. Several years after that,

the first sul'dam were found---women who could learn the channel and had the

spark, but could not actually channel without trainging. These women were considered

ideal controllers of the damane, the Leashed Ones. For her trouble Deain was

rewarded with imprisonment by her own device. She was, after all, Aes Sedai and thus not

to be trusted. It is said her screams "shook the Towers of Midnight."

Once the a'dam gained regular use, the title Aes Sedai disappeared

completely from Seanchan, and those who could channel were renamed marath'damane,

or Those Who Must Be Leashed.

So, one could obviously take from that the title of the next book is obviously a place,

a place that certainly isn't the Black tower or the ToG. No, this place in on the

continent of Seachan. Before I explain my theory let me give you an additional piece of

information. This one is in the same section, but on pg. 162 left hand side of the page.

It is the only other reference known to me of the Towers of Midnight. Please read:

Both the Tower of Ravens and the Court of the Nine Moons are located in Seandar,

the Imperial capital, located in the northeast of the Seanchan continent. Seandar is the

largest city in the empire. The other major cities in descending order are: Kirendad,

Noren, M'Shar, Asinbayar, Qirat, Imfaral (location of the Towers of Midnight), Sohima,

T'zura, Anangor, Shon Kifar, and Rampore.

 

ashamedly ive never bought the book i scanned it once or twice but when ive found it ive never had the $$ to buy it.

 

what you have said i think is very interesting many things i didn't know, but it may have clicked another piece of the puzzle into place perhaps the location of Demandred.

 

unless he was blowing his own horn he said something to the effect that he had an army and his position was secure, he also had a loose association with messana and semirhage.

 

the 2 current theories on Demandred's location being Roderan of Murandy or with the Boarder landers have never sat right with me, the Muridians could never really be called an army and i doubt Demandred would need the band to help unify them and Roderan sounds nothing like Demandred in temperament, with the boarder landers you have the 4 monarchs plus their retainers who are also have reputations of their own for valour, Demandred would have a problem gaining influence without Aes Sedi scrutiny.

 

Shara is a possibility but as another poster on this forum (cant remember who atm) pointed out its cutting it a little close to start introducing a new culture.

 

so i theorize that the leader of the "i wish i was better than Lews therin" Club has united the fragmented seanchan army back in seandar because they have the only army that could potentially match rands, and Demandred's ego wouldn't allow him anything less.

 

so in summary i think the towers of midnight reference could possibly be that rand will help Tuon retake Seachan if Tuon agrees to end the leashing of channelers there by instigating a battle with Demandred at the Tower of Midnight lets face it it sounds like the type of place Demandred would hang out in.

[coteaz]

RJ has stated that the main sequence of books will never return to Seanchan, so that wont happen.

[lillcheese]

 

No matter how weak Sorilea is she is still infinitely stronger than Bair who can't channel at all.

 

 

D'oh, I forgots that bit obviously.  Well then, maybe it makes sense Bair didn't have much reaction to the domination band.  I can't recall what Bayle Domon or his Seanchan lady said about it, if anything.  

 

I'm still disappointed there aren't more Aiel DF.  Maybe Bair told Elza or SH where to find it?  Yeah, I have nothing else to go on.

[wotjunkie]

RJ has stated that the main sequence of books will never return to Seanchan, so that wont happen.

 

fair enuff, but it would be possible for Demandred to bring them across the ocean  by traveling yes?

 

Rand defeats Demandred, Tuon gets her army back and and in return stops leashing channelers

[coteaz]

Yeah thats possible, but i still maintain IMHO that demandred has his fingers in many pies lol

[wotjunkie]

lol i dont doubt that  :D

 

but it bugs me not knowing where he is and in my mind, its the only reasobable location but then with RJ who knows  :o

[coteaz]

Yeah too true

[Aeos]

Regardless of what RJ said about the main storyline never going back to Seanchan it is irrelevant.

 

Let me put it this way. RJ was going to write one, humongous book, AMOL, to end the series. He could have very well had Rand going to Seanchan and/or some of them going over there for the Towers of Midnight and it wouldn't have been a main sequence of books, just a side note...

 

There is correlation between why BS chose to name one of the three remaining books "Towers of Midnight" Let me give you some reasons:

 

1. In the info book I quoted, RJ would not have left 3 very direct references to the Towers of Midnight, in the Seanchan continent might I add, if he was not at least going to touch there again.

 

2. He named the book after those specific towers. Look, you can't play blind and say he means all the other towers that have problems and just tried to sum it up. No, BS made that the title because RJ was going to have something major happen there in the final book, but because BS had to split it up, it will be going into the main sequence as an ending to one of the books.

 

 

[Aeos]

Wotjunkie, I like your point about Demandred, It could very well be how you are saying, and we are all putting the pieces together. I personally always felt like Taim was Demandred, but who knows?

[Lambada]

Initially my thought was that it was a reference to the Towers of Midnight in Seanchan. BUt as the dragonmount news post pointed out there is no The at the beginning which has lead me to believe that the title does not refer to The Towers of Midnight but metaphorical towers such as the Forsaken.

[coteaz]

Regardless of what RJ said about the main storyline never going back to Seanchan it is irrelevant.

 

Let me put it this way. RJ was going to write one, humongous book, AMOL, to end the series. He could have very well had Rand going to Seanchan and/or some of them going over there for the Towers of Midnight and it wouldn't have been a main sequence of books, just a side note...

 

There is correlation between why BS chose to name one of the three remaining books "Towers of Midnight" Let me give you some reasons:

 

1. In the info book I quoted, RJ would not have left 3 very direct references to the Towers of Midnight, in the Seanchan continent might I add, if he was not at least going to touch there again.

 

2. He named the book after those specific towers. Look, you can't play blind and say he means all the other towers that have problems and just tried to sum it up. No, BS made that the title because RJ was going to have something major happen there in the final book, but because BS had to split it up, it will be going into the main sequence as an ending to one of the books.

 

What you are saying makes no sense, RJ saying the main sequence of books wont be returning to seanchan MEANS they wont be going to seanchan in the main sequence of books aka the wheel of time series, to even have one mention where rand has gone to searching would completely invalidate this statement. It would be awesome see rand go there, and get a little more info on seanchan itself, but i dont see it happening.

 

Initially my thought was that it was a reference to the Towers of Midnight in Seanchan. BUt as the dragonmount news post pointed out there is no The at the beginning which has lead me to believe that the title does not refer to The Towers of Midnight but metaphorical towers such as the Forsaken.

 

Exactly, Either the forsaken, or the various towers in randland riddled with evil, there are a few ways the name can be interpreted.

[benr]

I'm really looking forward to how the whole Rand/Fortuona thing works out.

 

- Will Rand find out that Mat is the Prince of Ravens and married to Fortuona?  Will he find it out before he meets with her again, or while they are meeting?

- How willing will Fortuona be to meet with him again?  He scared the bejeebers out of her, and rightly so.  Of everyone that he needs to convince that he isn't DarkRand anymore, the Empress will be the hardest.

- If Rand finds out about the WT raid before he meets with her again, how will that affect him? 

 

I think that it would be great if Rand takes Mat along to the meeting, without the Seanchan knowing.  I also think that the only way that Rand will get the Seanchan to agree to a truce will be to kneel to the throne.  He has seen how much better they are at governing than he is; I think that he'll see that his opposition is hindering his cause.  He needs to bend alot here.