Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Seafolk Sedai]

Merillil and Talaan. Where the hell did they go? Merillil obviously kidnapped Talaan in order to train her in the Aes Sedai way because she couldn't overcome the fact that there are so few Aes Sedai that are so strong.

 

Talaan was NOT kidnapped. Earlier in the books she had already asked Nynaeve to take her to the WT to become a Novice. Obviously she asked Merilille to take her, and Merilille being Aes Sedai, happily agreed to take her. They snuck off because a) Talaan's mother and the other Windfinders would not let her go (the seafies only send they're weak channellers, after all) and b) Merilille was supposed to be teaching the Windfinders, per the Bargain that was made, and so she was not free to leave either.

 

They'll either show up at the WT sometime soon, or something will have happened to them along the way.

[Morsmordre]

Yes, I remember clearly now. You're right. Either way, I am curious what happened to them. A couple of months have passed in TGS and they should have been in the WT by now.

[Coltaine]

Hi guys. Brand new poster, long time reader.

 

Just a couple of things I wanted to mention that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

 

As far as Callandor goes, I'm positive that Cadsuane states that the only reason Rand needs to link with 2 female channelers to safely use Callandor is because it lacks the buffer other Sa'angreal have and amplifies the taint without that buffer. I can't recall off hand the book or page number, but I can find it. So, without the taint, why can't Rand use callandor solo now?

 

Also, I have a theory about Rand's sickness when grasping Saidin. I believe his sickness is linked to his dark persona, just the way the food spoiling and other things were linked to his dark persona. I'm interested to see if, now that he is Light Rand and is at peace with himself, if the sickness will go away when he grasps Saidin.

 

Feel free to tear this apart.

[clu7ch]

because maybe it doesn't amplify the taint but it still lacks the buffer, and rand could end up like our good ol' forsaken buddy in tEotW and end up as a pile of ashes.

[Luckers]

As far as Callandor goes, I'm positive that Cadsuane states that the only reason Rand needs to link with 2 female channelers to safely use Callandor is because it lacks the buffer other Sa'angreal have and amplifies the taint without that buffer. I can't recall off hand the book or page number, but I can find it. So, without the taint, why can't Rand use callandor solo now?

 

Two reasons. One, the lack of a buffer means using Callandor without to women is dangerous--it could burn Rand out, or kill him. Two, prophecy seems to indicate that the circle around Callandor is necessary.

 

 

[Rocky_Outcrop]

You'd think that Rand would know if he was close to his limit since he's been farting around with the Ck for so long.

 

As for amplifying the taint, why did that happen? Could what was making that happen have some sort of other impact now the taint is gone?

[Sharaman]

You'd think that Rand would know if he was close to his limit since he's been farting around with the Ck for so long.

 

As for amplifying the taint, why did that happen? Could what was making that happen have some sort of other impact now the taint is gone?

About the sickness, doesn't that start happening after the BF cross in CoS? I always thought it was some deal of Moridin gets sick using OP and that nausea keeps affecting RaT.

Even if RaT has warning signals, there isn't a cut-off switch with Callandor as there is with CK access key and other Angreal.

So he may overdraw.

 

[Luckers]

You'd think that Rand would know if he was close to his limit since he's been farting around with the Ck for so long.

 

The Choedan Kal has a buffer. Rand was not 'pulling himself short of his limits' when using it. It simply stopped him. Callandor would not do so.

 

As for amplifying the taint, why did that happen? Could what was making that happen have some sort of other impact now the taint is gone?

 

It happened because Callandor had no buffer, and yes it could have an impact now the Taint is gone--specifically Rand could over-draw and burn himself out or kill himself.

 

About the sickness, doesn't that start happening after the BF cross in CoS? I always thought it was some deal of Moridin gets sick using OP and that nausea keeps affecting RaT.

Even if RaT has warning signals, there isn't a cut-off switch with Callandor as there is with CK access key and other Angreal.

So he may overdraw.

 

RaT is a terrible acronym.

 

And yes, the sickness is due to the link between Rand and Moridin.

[Sharaman]

Moridin has a very special relationship with rats, capitalised or otherwise. That's why I like the acronym.

 

[Crael123]

You'd think that Rand would know if he was close to his limit since he's been farting around with the Ck for so long.

 

The Choedan Kal has a buffer. Rand was not 'pulling himself short of his limits' when using it. It simply stopped him. Callandor would not do so.

 

As for amplifying the taint, why did that happen? Could what was making that happen have some sort of other impact now the taint is gone?

 

It happened because Callandor had no buffer, and yes it could have an impact now the Taint is gone--specifically Rand could over-draw and burn himself out or kill himself.

 

About the sickness, doesn't that start happening after the BF cross in CoS? I always thought it was some deal of Moridin gets sick using OP and that nausea keeps affecting RaT.

Even if RaT has warning signals, there isn't a cut-off switch with Callandor as there is with CK access key and other Angreal.

So he may overdraw.

 

RaT is a terrible acronym.

 

And yes, the sickness is due to the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

 

But Rands sickness started before the link. and why was it so bad in tPOD when he was ripping the seanchan a new one in altara. and what happened in Ebou Dar in when he fulfilled the prophecy of the beggar? why was it so bad those times specificly if it was due to Moridin?

 

 

and what does RaT stand for? sorry.

 

100th Post!!! o yeah

[Sharaman]

Sorry Rand al Thor = RaT.

According to the Metaphysics Q&A posted in this spoiler board, the nausea may not be because of the link between Moridin & RaT.

Brandon just says Everyone thinks it is.

So there may be more to it.

 

 

[charis sedai]

Okay. Here's the thing.

 

 

Why did Brandon name the book Towers of Midnight if they aren't in them??

 

I mean, he knew they were there, and if he didn't, Harriet did. So why? I'm sure there is a reason of some kind, but what is it?

[wotjunkie]

this is kinda a weird theory thats just popped into my head, at least ive never read it here or on TL

 

i think Thom may kill Cadsuane, because i have a feeling Caddy was involved in gentling Thom's nephew Oweyn.

 

reasoning - to me Cadsuane is basically filling the role of moiraine, Moiraine gets rescued caddys role is at an end.

 

Cadsuane herself stated she has caught more men who could channel than any red (not a direct quote)

 

if this posted before sorry it only just came to me.

[Sharaman]

More likely, Owyn was gentled by Reds - Cads was (in her own PoV admittedly but she can't lie) never brutal about gentling whereas the Red broke Tower custom in the way they did it. Interesting though that Moiraine didn't give the names in her letters since she had promised to give the names if Thom went to Tanchico with Nyn and Elayne. (Or maybe she did and Thom didn't show that bit to Mat)

[Coltaine]

And yes, the sickness is due to the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

 

 

I have never read of any evidence suggesting that the sickness is due to his link with Moridin. From what I've gathered, people are just speculating that it is. I'm still of the belief that his sickness was due to his dark persona, much like the food spoiling and such.

[clu7ch]

As for why the sword amplifies the taint, I have no proof, but I kind of think it was created after the Strike at SG, between Female AS, and still mostly sane males. The first glimpse of it we get is right before the construction of the Eye. I would assume the taint-flaw is a side-effect of the lacking a buffer. Without a buffer, more and more taint could flow through. As for why the sword lacked a buffer, probably designed that way by the AS, to be a box. They had no idea Saidin could be or would ever be cleansed. With the prophetic return of the Dragon facing the future, they created it with the madness in mind. In a sense, the Aes Sedai could do like Elaida planned, keep the dragon under lock and key until the last battle, let him hold Calandor, linked to sisters, who would meld the flows. Essentially, the DR would be doing nothing but holding the source, and he could still face TG.

[cleantoe]

Okay. Here's the thing.

 

 

Why did Brandon name the book Towers of Midnight if they aren't in them??

 

I mean, he knew they were there, and if he didn't, Harriet did. So why? I'm sure there is a reason of some kind, but what is it?

 

???

 

The last book (the book that this entire forum is based on) was titled "The Gathering Storm" and the next book, which hasn't even been completed yet, is "The Towers of Midnight", and it will most likely contain the Tower of Ghenji.

[Sentinel78]

As for why the sword amplifies the taint, I have no proof, but I kind of think it was created after the Strike at SG, between Female AS, and still mostly sane males.

 

The WoT Companion book explicitly states that Callandor was created during the War of Power; not during the Breaking.

[WolfDragonFox]

And yes, the sickness is due to the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

 

I have never read of any evidence suggesting that the sickness is due to his link with Moridin. From what I've gathered, people are just speculating that it is. I'm still of the belief that his sickness was due to his dark persona, much like the food spoiling and such.

 

I agree there is no evidence that the sickness is due to the Moridin link but I actually am one of those that thinks it is.  We know the TP is dangerous and makes the user mad eventually just like the unclean saidin did so it could be said that the counterstroke that tainted saidin was that part of the TP so in saying that, Rand is linked to Moridin who is a TP user so it is in someway making it worse than it usually is to embrace saidin for Rand since he Ishy/Moridin became Naeblis and started using that TP.  I would almost equate it as a similarity to Elayne bonding Birgette, when she drinks Elayne gets the hangover, whereas maybe when Moridin uses TP Rand gets the negative affects and they build over time and worsen everytime he tries to use regular saidin.  Once again just my opinion as always.

[Sentinel78]

I agree there is no evidence that the sickness is due to the Moridin link but I actually am one of those that thinks it is.  We know the TP is dangerous and makes the user mad eventually just like the unclean saidin did so it could be said that the counterstroke that tainted saidin was that part of the TP so in saying that, Rand is linked to Moridin who is a TP user so it is in someway making it worse than it usually is to embrace saidin for Rand since he Ishy/Moridin became Naeblis and started using that TP.

 

The main reason I disagree with the TP being involved in the sickness is that Ishy used it for a long time and never had any apparent sickness symptoms.  His TP-induced symptoms at the well-advanced stage were flames in his eyes and mouth.  Now that he's using it again as Moridin, he has the saa and presumably will eventually have the eyes/mouth of flame.  Because the only TP-user never exhibited these symptoms that we have seen, it just seems like a stretch to conclude that Rand's sickness is from his link to Moridin.

 

Further evidence against this theory is that Moridin clearly feels sick when Rand seizes saidin.  Rand sees an image of Moridin's face and Moridin appears nauseated and furious when Rand seizes saidin at least one time.  Rand doesn't have any completely random bouts of nausea from what I remember.  You'd have to think that Rand feels Moridin's pain too, so he would have noticed this phenomenon if it was there. 

 

I agree with Luckers in that the nausea is going to go away or at least be reduced once he gets 'back on track' and abandons his whole Dark-Rand persona.  The last time he seized saidin was the worst time ever, which just happened to be when he was going unleash levels of balefire that might have destroyed the Pattern not to mention killing many thousands of people.  If not, he's going to have a tough time getting off Dragonmount.  He's on a tiny point on top of Mt. Everest essentially, he'll die in minutes without his air-concentration and heating weave, and he let go of the Power after destroying the CK.  If he gets that sick again he's going to lose his balance and fall a few thousand feet.

[WolfDragonFox]

Yeah could be anything

[Auld Manriva]

Hasn't Rand always had to fight off some degree of nausea when grasping The Source?

 

I admit it got worse after the balefire episode with Moridin. But maybe that was just adding that extra straw to "the camel's back" so to speak. It crossed the point of discomfort to become incapacitating or near to it.

 

"I agree with Luckers in that the nausea is going to go away or at least be reduced once he gets 'back on track' and abandons his whole Dark-Rand persona.  The last time he seized saidin was the worst time ever, which just happened to be when he was going unleash levels of balefire that might have destroyed the Pattern not to mention killing many thousands of people. "

 

That statement and observation indicates to me that maybe it's more to do with "LTT" than Morry. "LTT" because it appears now that his "LTT is real" claims have all been his own neuroses becoming more and more prevalent. In essence, Rand created a "real" LTT in his own mind in order to deal with the memories (which he was Born with) that were coming to the forefront of his mind, now that The Pattern determined it was time. Plus he knew he was supposed to go mad and this "person" in his head became the madness he had to fight against and keep from letting it take over. All the tussles over "who" got to do the channeling was another frightening thing to him which fed the nausea.

 

Between the stories of crazed male channelers he grew up with, his guilt at having the ability, memories that told him he WAS the Kinslayer and then having to Master the ability in order to be the Saviour of the World; Does it not seem possible he had some little "problem" with channeling that might lead to a bit of a queasy stomach?

 

Now that he's "stood atop the highest peak" and come to grips with himself, it would make sense if the nausea was not so big a factor, if none at all from here on out.

[randalthorr]

Could be anything. I used to think at one point that it was LTT or the split persona Rand had himself created in his head which could actually be the madness, that was somehow building this effect so that the LTT/insane part of him can take over when Rand holds the source by making him more weak when he takes hold of saidin.

 

I dont think thats the case anymore, but yeah I thought that was it  until the last book.

[WolfDragonFox]

Auld Manriva I really like the way you think on this subject.  I think that is actually completely possible and almost the best answer I've seen posted on the sickness and LTT subjects.  It is completely based in real life as in what we know of Dissociative Identity Disorder.  His brain could reasonably created a voice for LTT as a way of coping with all those worries of going mad and the pressure of who he is destined to be and filter as you said, all those memories that he and those who follow as the dragon reborn, will always be born with if the are to be savior of the world as seems his thread and soul's destiny.  This accounts for the sickness as a sort of physical reaction to his bottled up emotions of killing so many people particularly women and the innocents he has killed.  It gets worse every time, not because he keeps using saidin but because he knows he will be taking more lives and adding more guilt and bottling more feelings and the more he doesn't express the worse the internal feelings manifest themselves physically in his nausea and sicking up.

 

I really hope this is the answer or very close because if so my appreciation and sympathy for Rand has gone through the roof.  You can almost say he had a psychotic break that caused the LTT and sickness and need for repressing his emotion to begin, then he had a breakthrough of reflection and release of emotions and acceptance that he has more to live for than he thought which will discontinue his need for LTT thus the voices go away and he will weep for those that will die in the battles to come but accept that with life comes death and he will show his emotions but push forward to protect those he loves by protecting the world.  And he won't need to feel nausea and sickness when reaching for the source because he will use it properly in the best way to resolve things decisively but with the least amount of injuries and destruction possible.

 

Sorry if i rambled but I was kind of in the moment when writing that.

[Auld Manriva]

Thanks WDF, I appreciate that.... And most people who pay a lick of attention to anything I post around here call me Manny or Riva, not that there is an over abundance of such poor misguided souls.

 

I was listening to TGS today and a couple of POV's from Perrin and Mat got me to thinking about this a bit and then that post above was the hammer hittin' the nail. Both fella's, seeing Rand in the Ta'veren mirror on the wall thought, more or less, "Rand what have you done to yourself now?" Matt still thinks Rand is going to go crazy (still no idea Saidin is cleansed) and torch everyone in sight and Perrin was more sympathetic but still had a bit of that outlook. And that got me to thinking of their common upbringing and the pressures on each one and how each deals with them. Rand seems to me to be a combination of Both the other boy's but hugely magnified in every aspect. And that's where the internalized, self inflicted "sickness" idea came from.

 

I think we might see a "brighter" Rand from here on, and I'm thinking a good deal less of Rand in ToM. At least until the last third of that volume. My guess is that is when the "fun" starts. I'm bettin' we get a real old time "Perils of Pauline" cliff hanger with all the pieces moved to where they need to be, for the most part, and all hell breakin' loose like nothing we've seen so far; then BAM! wait'll 2011 WoT fans...

 

Then A Memory of Light comes out with a bang up beginning and a second half of the book, "take a deep breath the war is over," anti climactic coast to the finish. Which would include getting all the main chars into their "ever after's" ... happy or otherwise.

 

I still don't think we'll see a slug fest with the DO. I think that is going to be more cerebral or something, what with the thing Verin said about not realizing what the DO was or what The Last Battle would be or something I'm not recalling precisely.

 

I think how Moiraine will be gettin' sprung from FinnLand is going to be surprising and I think how Rand gets the Knucklehead Kids (the Hawkwing eejits) issue resolved is going to be a bit of a revelation to us readers as well. Personally I don't think anyone has hit on how either happens.