Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[dmanmiller34]

MOriane specifaclly said 3 mist go. Anymore and any less will end up in disaster. She saidthat almost verbtum in the letter to Thom. Unless of course since Oliver is not a man but a mere boy he may not count. Kind of like in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince where Harry did not register with the boats magical limitation because he was not of age yet. Interesting tought maybe. Sorry to blend worlds but It wasthe best ananlogy I could think of.

[grolm]

 

Mat saves Moiraine in Finnland.  Courage to strengthen, Fire to Blind, Music to Dazzle Iron to Bind.  I think we all know Thom will take care of the music and so that leaves fire iron and courage.  These are the things i want to figure out.

 

 

its the Iron that kind of hard to figure out

 

Iron weapons were my thought on that. Perhaps with Aludra gathering so many resources for the gunpowder, some iron will be around for use. Thom will supply music, the strikers the fire, and courage comes from within all of them just to go make the attempt. The iron fire and music sound like items they need to sneak into Finnland.

 

 

[charis sedai]

 

Mat saves Moiraine in Finnland.  Courage to strengthen, Fire to Blind, Music to Dazzle Iron to Bind.  I think we all know Thom will take care of the music and so that leaves fire iron and courage.  These are the things i want to figure out.

 

 

its the Iron that kind of hard to figure out

 

Iron weapons were my thought on that. Perhaps with Aludra gathering so many resources for the gunpowder, some iron will be around for use. Thom will supply music, the strikers the fire, and courage comes from within all of them just to go make the attempt. The iron fire and music sound like items they need to sneak into Finnland.

 

 

 

unless Thom sings... then its another internal thingy. Maybe its an iron will they need to bring...

 

My thought on the named door:

 

Postuma sounds like posthumous to me. As in, recieved after death. I don't really know where I'm going with this, except that it could be interesting. And while Paul would be a rather silly name for a door IMO, something like the Posthuma Gateway sounds interesting.

 

 

[WolfDragonFox]

Here is a passage from TSR Chapter 15, Into the Doorway.  

 

Finn Greeter to Mat: "Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music?"

 

At this point the Eelfinn guy asks him once more and Mat says no but almost asks why and doesn't so that he doesn't waste a question.  His thought after is this:

 

"Why should he care if I have a dozen musicians and a smithy on my back?"

 

I know in Moiraine's letter she said she didn't recognize or couldn't make out the 3rd man but I wonder was this a random thought that RJ decided to give Mat or are the words filled with purposeful clues.  The reason I pointed out that Moiraine's letter said she doesn't recognized the 3rd man is because she obviously knows Perrin, but that "smithy" comment got me thinking along with the way the Eelfinn asks the questions to Mat.  Here is my new 3 people and why!

 

Mat - He will be the Fire in the bunch because he will be taking something special from Aludra and this will be how he loses an eye.  Fire to Blind is his part of the puzzle and I think he will Blind them by blinding himself with a backfiring firework because we know he already suspects that the Finns see through his eyes and get some pleasure or feeding sustanence out of it.

 

Thom - Obviously he is going to have the Instruments of Music via his flute, but more importantly his prized harp. Music to Dazzle is his part so he will distract the blinded Finns with music so they either can't hear or they just get dazzled by music easily.  He'll probably play the harp and recite a story in high chant.

 

This brings me to the 3rd.

 

Perrin - He is the Iron of the bunch.  He has thrown away the Axe and his TOOL is an Iron Blacksmith Hammer.  I can't find a passage saying it is made of iron but i'm fairly certain smith hammers or iron.  So he will have the forbidden Tools of Iron part and be the Iron to Bind part of the riddle and hammer them to the wall or something (dunno)

 

As far as courage to strengthen, this will be either all of them or once again go to Mat as the General that gets the troops ready, but all 3 of these guys are of no lack of courage.  Please let me know what you think everyone.

[RenaldFanwar]

Perrin - He is the Iron of the bunch.  He has thrown away the Axe and his TOOL is an Iron Blacksmith Hammer.  I can't find a passage saying it is made of iron but i'm fairly certain smith hammers or iron.  So he will have the forbidden Tools of Iron part and be the Iron to Bind part of the riddle and hammer them to the wall or something (dunno)

 

As far as courage to strengthen, this will be either all of them or once again go to Mat as the General that gets the troops ready, but all 3 of these guys are of no lack of courage.  Please let me know what you think everyone.

 

one flaw in the theory

 

Moraine would have known Perrin in her possible future visions, and she clearly mentions "a man i don't know"

[Declan]

i am going to have to go with the guy above me. I think Perrin has too much else going on to have to deal with the ToG anyways.

 

I hold that it will be Noal and that Noal is Jain Farstrider. I want to read a novel about Jain Farstrider.

[FanoLan]

i am going to have to go with the guy above me. I think Perrin has too much else going on to have to deal with the ToG anyways.

 

Primarily for Perrin, IMO, he's going to have to save Rand's skin again.  Maybe that Min viewing relates to an event during TG, but I think it will be a separate event entirely.  And a big part of ToM.

 

I hold that it will be Noal and that Noal is Jain Farstrider. I want to read a novel about Jain Farstrider.

 

How cool would it be to lay your hands on a first edition Travels of Jain Farstrider?

[Declan]

it would be ridiculously cool.

 

this next book will quite obviously have more Perrin as well. i dont think he will save Rand a second time seeing as we wont see alot of Rand.

 

I just really want to read the chapters on the Tower of Ghenjei now. i hope this book comes out earlier than next fall.....

[Crael123]

i hope that lan and moiraine meet again before the last battle that should be... heart wrenching. o and maybe nyneave would FINALLY get Lans bond. that has really annoyed me

 

[jadelollipop]

Nynaeve will not get Lan's bond until she meets Myrelle who currently has it.  IIRC Myrelle is at the Black Tower with other Aes Sedai re: bonding of Ashaman

[Crael123]

Nynaeve will not get Lan's bond until she meets Myrelle who currently has it.  IIRC Myrelle is at the Black Tower with other Aes Sedai re: bonding of Ashaman

 

i forgot she was with them

[Tigraine]

Nynaeve will not get Lan's bond until she meets Myrelle who currently has it.  IIRC Myrelle is at the Black Tower with other Aes Sedai re: bonding of Ashaman

 

i forgot she was with them

 

isn't there some speculation that those Aes Sedai are either gonna die or be turned by the 13/13 and made darkfriends....what then?

[Declan]

well we know that even if an Aes Sedai is a darkfriend does not mean the warder is. so it shouldnt affect Lan. but it might be tricky to get his bond though. hahahahaha.

 

That would be very bad for the light because if Myrelle is turned then the dark would be able to know where Lan is. and his army.

 

I dont think they are or are going to be turned though. Taim is a darkfriend but he does not have total influence over all the Ashaman because there are so many of them. i dont know what to think with the AS that went there and have not been heard from...

[Tigraine]

- Her and casuade will go at it, and nyaneave  and min will said with moiraine.

Why will they go at it?

 

moiraine and cadsuane would go at it because if you remember they haven't met up since what New Spring?  Moiraine thinks cad is a darkfriend and in case you haven't noticed neither of them seem to want to bend to someone else's whims.

 

and because of this Tuon will be “bound” to help Rand.

That makes no sense at all. Mat does not bind Fortuona to Rand by virtue of his existence.

 

tuon mentions that she has known since forever that she would marry to help the empire what better way to help the empire than to marry the Dragon's best childhood friend? How else would Mat be for the better of the empire???

[charis sedai]

it would be ridiculously cool.

 

this next book will quite obviously have more Perrin as well. i dont think he will save Rand a second time seeing as we wont see alot of Rand.

 

I just really want to read the chapters on the Tower of Ghenjei now. i hope this book comes out earlier than next fall.....

 

Any hope we can get harriet/brandon to write the travels of jain someday?

 

i agree, unless something bad happens to Rand right at the top, and then we get to hear about perrin's rescue throughout a major part of the book?

 

 

[FanoLan]

it would be ridiculously cool.

 

this next book will quite obviously have more Perrin as well. i dont think he will save Rand a second time seeing as we wont see alot of Rand.

 

I just really want to read the chapters on the Tower of Ghenjei now. i hope this book comes out earlier than next fall.....

 

Any hope we can get harriet/brandon to write the travels of jain someday?

 

i agree, unless something bad happens to Rand right at the top, and then we get to hear about perrin's rescue throughout a major part of the book?

 

 

 

Well, IMO, we still haven't seen the second Perrin rescuing Rand that was foreseen in Min's vision.  Maybe it will get tied up in TG, but I think we'll get a lot of Perrin's PoV on the effort.  We don't really need much screen time for Rand to see that plot thread through to the end.

[Mr Ares]

- Her and casuade will go at it, and nyaneave  and min will said with moiraine.

Why will they go at it?

Moiraine and Cadsuane would go at it because if you remember they haven't met up since what New Spring? Moiraine thinks Cad is a darkfriend and in case you haven't noticed neither of them seem to want to bend to someone else's whims.

Moiraine considered Cadsuane a Darkfriend in passing. She has no reason to seriously consider it, especially now the BA have been purged. And the both of them have bent to Rand's will.

 

and because of this Tuon will be “bound” to help Rand.

That makes no sense at all. Mat does not bind Fortuona to Rand by virtue of his existence.tuon mentions that she has known since forever that she would marry to help the empire what better way to help the empire than to marry the Dragon's best childhood friend? How else would Mat be for the better of the empire???It still doesn't bind them. It at best gives an opening, but both Rand and Fortuona are politically svvy enough to not put aside everything because Mat is cool. If they come to an agreement, it will be because they see political advantage in it. Rand already thought that a truce was for the best, but Fortuona considers herself the most important person in the world, and thinks Rand has to kneel to her. She needs to be disabused of that notion before anything can happen, and Mat being Rand's friend isn't enough.

[WolfDragonFox]

i am going to have to go with the guy above me. I think Perrin has too much else going on to have to deal with the ToG anyways.

 

Primarily for Perrin, IMO, he's going to have to save Rand's skin again.  Maybe that Min viewing relates to an event during TG, but I think it will be a separate event entirely.  And a big part of ToM.

 

I hold that it will be Noal and that Noal is Jain Farstrider. I want to read a novel about Jain Farstrider.

 

How cool would it be to lay your hands on a first edition Travels of Jain Farstrider?

 

Two things:

1. I totally agree that my statement of Perrin being the third is wrong, just put it there to see if anyone saw a way around it.  I am also of the Noal/Jain as 3rd man bandwagon so I just now need help figuring what his role will be.  I do know this tho, since the Finns love living through people, and Noal is so eager to go, I think it may be safe to say he's been to the Finns before so they will oust him to Mat and Thom and Moiraine(if she's found by that point.)

 

2. This is one of the things that saddened me most about RJ's death besides the fact that he didn't get to finish his life's work, but I know he wanted to do the outrigger novels even if they weren't right after the final book of WoT.  I was hoping, though I never really heard anything on it, that he would write a Travel's of Jain Farstrider Novel for us to get a peek at what everyone in Randland loves to read most.

[Crael123]

it would be ridiculously cool.

 

this next book will quite obviously have more Perrin as well. i dont think he will save Rand a second time seeing as we wont see alot of Rand.

 

I just really want to read the chapters on the Tower of Ghenjei now. i hope this book comes out earlier than next fall.....

 

Any hope we can get harriet/brandon to write the travels of jain someday?

 

i agree, unless something bad happens to Rand right at the top, and then we get to hear about perrin's rescue throughout a major part of the book?

 

 

 

Well, IMO, we still haven't seen the second Perrin rescuing Rand that was foreseen in Min's vision.  Maybe it will get tied up in TG, but I think we'll get a lot of Perrin's PoV on the effort.  We don't really need much screen time for Rand to see that plot thread through to the end.

 

 

No Perrin already rescued Rand in LOC....... small part of the book, easy to miss.... dumanis wells.... rather small part of the series.....

[FanoLan]

it would be ridiculously cool.

 

this next book will quite obviously have more Perrin as well. i dont think he will save Rand a second time seeing as we wont see alot of Rand.

 

I just really want to read the chapters on the Tower of Ghenjei now. i hope this book comes out earlier than next fall.....

 

Any hope we can get harriet/brandon to write the travels of jain someday?

 

i agree, unless something bad happens to Rand right at the top, and then we get to hear about perrin's rescue throughout a major part of the book?

 

 

 

Well, IMO, we still haven't seen the second Perrin rescuing Rand that was foreseen in Min's vision.  Maybe it will get tied up in TG, but I think we'll get a lot of Perrin's PoV on the effort.  We don't really need much screen time for Rand to see that plot thread through to the end.

 

 

No Perrin already rescued Rand in LOC....... small part of the book, easy to miss.... dumanis wells.... rather small part of the series.....

 

Brilliance personified - yeah right.  Min's viewing indicated Perrin would have to be there twice to pull Rand's bacon out of the fire and Dumai's Wells was the first.  Some folks have argued the second save occurred when Cads retrieved Tam from Perrin's company, but that seem too tenuous to me.

[Tigraine]

I truly hope that Nynaeve can talk Rand into helping Lan out... I love that even w/ everything goin on she still has concern for her man

 

GO NYNAEVE ;D

[ed2funy]

Rand can't go to help Lan...just because he married Nyn. Lan would undrstand about duty....he knows that if he can't get help, then he will have to fight with what he has...Rand has to much to do...plus Lan isn't that central to the plot...he is expendable!

[Tigraine]

how can you even say that... He's a very important character,  if not then why would they have brought him back.  Even so as a woman I understand the concern for her man and yes rand should help because of nynaeve they are from the same village

 

[ed2funy]

we knew he would go to that trollop from the beinning...Egwene is from the same village and he was bethrothed to her! i don't exactly see them as best friends...if nyn knew lan like she shuld as his wife then she would know he would gladly die fighting the shadow in the most important battle ever!

[Tigraine]

we knew he would go to that trollop from the beinning...Egwene is from the same village and he was bethrothed to her! i don't exactly see them as best friends...if nyn knew lan like she shuld as his wife then she would know he would gladly die fighting the shadow in the most important battle ever!

 

that's exactly the way a man would look at it.  Egwene is a totally different discussion why would you even bring her up.  Lan wanted to die fighting the shadow true but it's pointless if something good doesn't come from it.  Like him dying in a winning battle. but that is beside the point anyway because that "trollop" knows that rand should send help even if it wasn't Lan