Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[emyali]

 

Nyn will shave part of her head like a Seanchan noble...she does have this annoying tendency to adopt fashion habits from lands far and wide.  Will this prevent her from tugging at her darned braid?  You decide.

 

 

;D ;D

No way

She was raged with the suggestion of getting her hair cut shorter  =D

[Superus Sophia]

If I had to bet on anyone being revealed as Ilyena reborn I'd go with Moiraine.  Just because they both were reborn doesn't mean there has to be romantic involvement, just because Gaidal and Birgitte do.  And that would fit with her finding out in Rhuidean that sleeping with Rand would lead to disaster.  Oh, by the by, anyone else see Olver as Gaidal?  In just about every book after Mat finds him there is a reminder that he is an ugly youth, and Gaidal was always supposed to be an unattractive man.

 

I rescind my theory of Demandred manipulating the BT.  I can't imagine him and Oran'gar (Dashiva) sharing a domain.  I still doubt the Borderlanders, although the sisters being Black could explain it.  I think I'm going to settle into the idea that he is bringing together the trollocs and Shadowspawn for the Last Battle until BS tells me otherwise.

 

And as for Rand's blindness being a metaphor, yeah, I see that.  However, what about the little gamepeice Moridin had that was hinted to be Rand the last time the Third Age came about.  The Fisher.  The figure had the wounds, the missing had, and had a blindfold to represent blindness.  The ancient creator of the game MIGHT have known about the Fisher's metaphorical struggle, but I think it unlikely. 

 

Of course, if things do change gradually as the wheel spins, with each revolution of the Wheel being slightly different each time (the Fisher instead of the Shepherd) that could be an indication that things will be diferent in this Third Age and might foreshadow Rand's survival or even actually defeating the Dark One.  I doubt the latter and suspect he simply fully repairs the seal on the prison.

 

I wonder if Rand gets around the reforming the taint by dying in the process of sealing....

[jemron]

Oh, by the by, anyone else see Olver as Gaidal?  In just about every book after Mat finds him there is a reminder that he is an ugly youth, and Gaidal was always supposed to be an unattractive man.

 

Gaidal is not Olver.  RJ said so, and it doesn't work out based on the timing.  Olver would have already been born when we saw Gaidal in Tel'ran'rhiod, so it's impossible that they could be the same person.  My theory on Gaidal is that he was actually somehow ripped out of the pattern just like Birgitte was, and he is an adult currently in the world looking for Birgitte.  Since they are both linked and have always shared similar fates in Ages past, I think it is safe to assume that this has happened to them before.  Birgitte just doesn't remember it because it's been so long since the 3rd Age happened before.

[Firebird]

My theory on Gaidal is that he was actually somehow ripped out of the pattern just like Birgitte was, and he is an adult currently in the world looking for Birgitte.  Since they are both linked and have always shared similar fates in Ages past, I think it is safe to assume that this has happened to them before.  Birgitte just doesn't remember it because it's been so long since the 3rd Age happened before.

 

I like this idea. It appeals to the romantic in me  ;D

I always feel sorry for Birgitte when she mentions that her memories are fading and she fears one day she not be able to remember Gaidal at all. If she can be pulled out into the real world, why not him too? Maybe Perrin will drag him out somehow.

[Declan]

My theory on Gaidal is that he was actually somehow ripped out of the pattern just like Birgitte was, and he is an adult currently in the world looking for Birgitte.  Since they are both linked and have always shared similar fates in Ages past, I think it is safe to assume that this has happened to them before.  Birgitte just doesn't remember it because it's been so long since the 3rd Age happened before.

 

I like this idea. It appeals to the romantic in me  ;D

I always feel sorry for Birgitte when she mentions that her memories are fading and she fears one day she not be able to remember Gaidal at all. If she can be pulled out into the real world, why not him too? Maybe Perrin will drag him out somehow.

 

although this would please my heart. my mind knows better.

 

Now, the exact book is not brought to mind but i am positive that one of the last times Elayne or Egwene sees Birgitte in Tel'Aran'Rhiod that she tells them that Gaidal Cain has already been resurfaced (his spirit has left the dream world and has been reborn). naturally. which means he was born and not ripped out.

 

which makes things awkward for their relationship. she must be almost 20 years older than him. talk about a cougar....

[b9anders]

there certainly are some hooks left that, with just two books left, will most likely prove very consequential.

 

The forced 13 fades and 13 dreadlords conversion ritual - Someone is gonna bite that bullet and it won't be a nice thing. Considering what a pernicious and persistent threat this has been to Rand, I can't imagine it won't be someone of importance. Would our writers really go so far as damning one of the supergirls to the dark at this point? Is there anything in the dreams, visions, foretellings and prophecies that might offer us a clue? What about Bashere? There's something dark in his future according to Min (death or turning on Rand).

 

Alanna - If there were anyone who did not appreciate what a potentially momentous event it was that she bonded him, RJ told us subsequently in no uncertain terms that it was. Considering that, Allanna has been given an almost contemptously small amount of screentime and importance since then and has even had the significance of bonding the dragon usurped by others as well. By now, it leacves me wondering what the point of it was, other the helping Rand to distrust AS even less. Which makes me confident the authors have something more in store for her.

 

Padan Fain - That quote from tEotW was very illuminating. Lest we forget, there is probably no one in the world, aside perhaps from Moridin, who knows more about the nature of the Dark One and his weaknesses than Mordeth. That knowledge could prove decisive if put to good use. I find it quite probable in fact, than Mordet does know a way to destroy him, even if he himself lacks the means to make that happen (means that his other archnemesis might have though). The fact that the Dark One hunts him shows that he fears this as well, imo. He wants him for more than mere reprisal for going rogue and being a stumbling block for his plans here and there.

 

I don't really see him converting to the light. There has so far not been shown to us even a glimmer of hope that this could ever happen. He is so onesidedly evil that he will almost certainly remain so. Even so, he could still be made to work against the dark one. I think it actually more likely that he will survive Tarmon Gaidon, not as the new Dark One, but nonetheless as a source  (albeit lesser) evil of some kind of in the absence of the Dark One (assuming of course, Rand actually destroys him) in the coming age.

 

The Black Tower - A few players here will make this very interesting. Egwene notes that she will have to address the BT very soon. We know from a viewing from Min in aCoS that Cadsuane has something to teach, not just to Rand, but to all the Asha'man, and they won't like it anymore than Rand likes it. Somehow, she'll probably get embroiled in that storyline as well. Logain most likely too.

[Shard]

I think I understand better why Moridin has gone to the Dark, in tGS he seemed to really just be tired of the conflict between the Light and Dark and just wants it to stop. Oblivion is preferable to him then continuing to fight and he knows the DO will do that. So what if there was another way to end this unending cycle that he was complaining about? Would that tempt him back to the Light?

[Nightstrike]

The forced 13 fades and 13 dreadlords conversion ritual - Someone is gonna bite that bullet and it won't be a nice thing.

Talaan disappeared. Maybe she's turned. Brandon's comment on Taim said that he was "never a nice guy" (or something like that). Before that statement, I might have guessed on Taim.

 

Padan Fain - That quote from tEotW was very illuminating. Lest we forget, there is probably no one in the world, aside perhaps from Moridin, who knows more about the nature of the Dark One and his weaknesses than Mordeth.

I've seen some people suggest that he and the Dagger might be a threat to Shaidar Haran at some point. Two evils... I wonder if that's what will happen?

 

 

[Declan]

I think I understand better why Moridin has gone to the Dark, in tGS he seemed to really just be tired of the conflict between the Light and Dark and just wants it to stop. Oblivion is preferable to him then continuing to fight and he knows the DO will do that. So what if there was another way to end this unending cycle that he was complaining about? Would that tempt him back to the Light?

 

as appealing as this idea is i think Moridin is too far in to turn back to the light without there being serious repercussions. But i love his character, is easily one of my favorite bad guys ever.

 

i hope to see some more conversations between Moridin and Rand. they are very enlightening.

[b9anders]

as appealing as this idea is i think Moridin is too far in to turn back to the light without there being serious repercussions. But i love his character, is easily one of my favorite bad guys ever.

 

i hope to see some more conversations between Moridin and Rand. they are very enlightening.

 

Yeah. Moridin is not just a cynically calculating logician. He is also callous and has a penchant for  unnecessary cruelty. I think he likes fighting for the dark, even if he is getting tired. It would require a very compelling logical proof to make him consider changing sides, imo.

 

That said, I hope we see them interacting more in the next book. That dream scene was one of my favourite scenes in the series.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Gaidal = ripped from the pattern (fully grown) and held captive/turned by the Dark?

 

It would certainly make Birgitte feel a pain that was promised to her by Moggy (was it Moggy?).

[charis sedai]

The forced 13 fades and 13 dreadlords conversion ritual - Someone is gonna bite that bullet and it won't be a nice thing.

Talaan disappeared. Maybe she's turned. Brandon's comment on Taim said that he was "never a nice guy" (or something like that). Before that statement, I might have guessed on Taim.

 

Padan Fain - That quote from tEotW was very illuminating. Lest we forget, there is probably no one in the world, aside perhaps from Moridin, who knows more about the nature of the Dark One and his weaknesses than Mordeth.

I've seen some people suggest that he and the Dagger might be a threat to Shaidar Haran at some point. Two evils... I wonder if that's what will happen?

 

 

 

Wait- could be wrong, but Moridin used to be ishy, right?

 

So Rand's two wounds are from Moridin and Fain/The Dagger.

 

i'm not really sure where this is going, but its interesting.

[Nightstrike]

Yeah, the wound has two evils. The DO's & Shadar Logoth's.

 

Fain will probably play a part yet. He and the Dagger. Probably fighting the DO's evil (intentionally or not) in some way or another.

 

[1eejit]

Padan Fain - That quote from tEotW was very illuminating. Lest we forget, there is probably no one in the world, aside perhaps from Moridin, who knows more about the nature of the Dark One and his weaknesses than Mordeth.

I've seen some people suggest that he and the Dagger might be a threat to Shaidar Haran at some point. Two evils... I wonder if that's what will happen?

 

 

Personally I think Fain is going to be a threat to Big Bad himself.

He's outside the normal pattern, unique to this age, and his top two goals in life are to kill Rand and to kill S'T. If Rand dies (permanently or not, fake or not) at SG and Fain is around I think we can guess who Fain will gun for next.

[Aleron688]

lightbulb

 

3 become one.  Moridin, Rand, Fain.  omg!

[randfandom]

Alanna - If there were anyone who did not appreciate what a potentially momentous event it was that she bonded him, RJ told us subsequently in no uncertain terms that it was. Considering that, Allanna has been given an almost contemptously small amount of screentime and importance since then and has even had the significance of bonding the dragon usurped by others as well. By now, it leacves me wondering what the point of it was, other the helping Rand to distrust AS even less. Which makes me confident the authors have something more in store for her.

 

The importance was first in the increase of distrust that Rand had to Aes Sedai - she and Verin were the first ones he met after Moiraine's death, and he went to meet them voluntarily as a goodwill gesture, only to forcibly bonded. He probably got strength and stamina from the bond, which is quite significant, judging by Bryne's reaction in tGS. I wonder if his resilience in the face of his unhealable wounds was not partly due to the bond (later bonds). Alana's bond was used at least twice to his advantage (track him after the kidnapping and when he went to Far Madding).

 

That said, I think that her plot usefulness is at end. I believe she'll bite the dust in the next book - or (worse?) be turned to the dark by a 13/13 circle. From WH we know that at least one darkfriend (Elza) knew she bonded Rand. Elza is dead, but I am sure she passed on that knowledge by now. So the dark side knows of her bonding Rand. I believe that the only thing protecting her is Moridin's order not to hurt Rand, but the other forsaken don't appear to be similarly inclined. I can well see Halima/Arangar arranging for her to die.

 

If that happens, I really feel sorry for Rand to have to go through that pain on top of all he'd been through, and just when he appears to be getting better. Will her death tip him over the edge after his progress in the last book? Insane rage and depression seems to happen to all the warders, even if they are bonded to others immediately.

 

[charis sedai]

Yeah, the wound has two evils. The DO's & Shadar Logoth's.

 

Fain will probably play a part yet. He and the Dagger. Probably fighting the DO's evil (intentionally or not) in some way or another.

 

 

I knew about the two evils bit- I was more interested in the idea about how it could be foreshadowing of some sort- you know, some sort of combination of Moridin and Fain being a pain in Rand's side, more literally or something- maybe they'll concoct something together?

[1eejit]

lightbulb

 

3 become one.  Moridin, Rand, Fain.  omg!

Possibly, though Fain is already two or more by himself ;)

[Tigraine]

I've not read all 64 pages of this post...but i've read a lot.  In my own personal opinion something momentous is laying in wait dealing with Lan.  Throughout the whole series he has been, by far, my favorite character.  Nynaeve is gonna pull some miraculous emotion out of Rand concerning Lan.  I would hate to see him die with his personal "war with the shadow" 

 

what is going on w/ his cousin that's a DF i can't remember the last mention of him...can't even remember his name right off.  But maybe he offers some sort of plot line...fighting against Lan at the dead Malkier. 

 

[mossman87]

Yeah, the wound has two evils. The DO's & Shadar Logoth's.

 

Fain will probably play a part yet. He and the Dagger. Probably fighting the DO's evil (intentionally or not) in some way or another.

 

 

I knew about the two evils bit- I was more interested in the idea about how it could be foreshadowing of some sort- you know, some sort of combination of Moridin and Fain being a pain in Rand's side, more literally or something- maybe they'll concoct something together?

 

The DO and Mordeth are polar opposites as per RJ, we've seen what happens when they come in contact, at the Cleansing, assuming the taint is the True Power (Saidin on the Seals, touching the DO), and assuming the True Power is the essence of the DO.  Just as Mordeth is basically a power, and not a real person anymore.

 

The wound in his side is the same example, just on a smaller scale.  The two evils fighting eachother and sealed in Rand with the One Power.

 

Most likely it'll make Rand realize what he needs to do in the end.

[Aleron688]

lightbulb

 

3 become one.  Moridin, Rand, Fain.  omg!

Possibly, though Fain is already two or more by himself ;)

 

nope. he's 2... or 3?... mushed into 1. i call him 1. :) 

 

also, i have no proof, no evidence, nothing to base my guess off of, or anything resembling a good argument for why this would happen :D

[jemron]

lightbulb

 

3 become one.  Moridin, Rand, Fain.  omg!

Possibly, though Fain is already two or more by himself ;)

 

nope. he's 2... or 3?... mushed into 1. i call him 1. :) 

 

also, i have no proof, no evidence, nothing to base my guess off of, or anything resembling a good argument for why this would happen :D

 

In a sense each one of these people are individually "two who have become one."

 

Mordeth + DO instilled Fain (merged) = Current Padan Fain

Old Rand + Lews Therin (currently merged) = Current Rand al'Thor

Ishy + Moridin body ("merged") = Current Moridin

 

Kind of interesting.  Another example of this is Slayer.  Isam + Luc (merged) = Current Slayer.

[WolfDragonFox]

Just for poos and winks...lol don't know where i came up w/ that saying...lol but I think when the Tower of Ghenji party save Moiraine she will immediately bond that old Tom feller..lol so he won't up and die on her when they settle down together after the final battle.

[Aleron688]

lightbulb

 

3 become one.  Moridin, Rand, Fain.  omg!

Possibly, though Fain is already two or more by himself ;)

 

nope. he's 2... or 3?... mushed into 1. i call him 1. :) 

 

also, i have no proof, no evidence, nothing to base my guess off of, or anything resembling a good argument for why this would happen :D

 

In a sense each one of these people are individually "two who have become one."

 

Mordeth + DO instilled Fain (merged) = Current Padan Fain

Old Rand + Lews Therin (currently merged) = Current Rand al'Thor

Ishy + Moridin body ("merged") = Current Moridin

 

Kind of interesting.  Another example of this is Slayer.  Isam + Luc (merged) = Current Slayer.

 

i like the relationship we have going here.  I get the ideas, and you prove them.  keep up the good work :D

 

(Note: I am still well aware that this isn't proof, and i probably don't particularly believe this will happen myself)

 

Also, the Moridin + Ishy = Moridin thing is a bit of a stretch....

[jemron]

Also, the Moridin + Ishy = Moridin thing is a bit of a stretch....

 

True.  I guess I was just thinking that they are all currently 1 person who has had two bodies that they all can remember having.