Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Lewsdarren]

My prediction on the Callandor prophecy: the 3 that shall be 1 are saidin, saidar and the true power......

[Leezus]

Egwene will find out from Rand about the truth on the oath rod and hopefully remove the stupid thing.  

 

What "truth" are you talking about?  They already know the Oath Rod limits age.

 

The truth that it was a device used to bind criminals.  Something he would know from his now integrated memories.

 

Not to mention, as the high seat in the hall of servants, summoner of the Nine Rods of Dominion, the "Oath Rods" kind of belong to him. Hos betta start payin' up for messin' with his stuff.

[The Desert Pea]

Is anyone else hoping that Mat will end up asking one of the High Blood something along the lines of "So where's Tuon?" at some point in the next book and getting the response "She's dead." since she's now Fortuona? :D

[The Desert Pea]

ignore this, meant to hit edit on the above post  >:(

[jthoma8318]

 

Egwene will send a delegation to Rand.

 

 

Black Tower will break. :o

 

Demandred's location will be revealed, I almost want to think he is with the Borderlanders since no other Forsaken has shown up there.

 

Egwene will have a face to face meeting with Rand. Elaida's Foretlling, "The Dragon shall stand(come before?) the Amyrlin and know her displeasure." Which Alvarin and Elaida took to mean Elaida. Might have misquoted that a bit but I don't have the books with me in the truck. I know others disagree, but the ONLY army left of note is the Black Tower. We know a'ganor was there. I don't think he would have satisfied himself with just hanging in the background with rand unless Demandred was there first.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Egwene will send a delegation to Rand.

 

 

Black Tower will break. :o

 

Demandred's location will be revealed, I almost want to think he is with the Borderlanders since no other Forsaken has shown up there.

 

Egwene will have a face to face meeting with Rand. Elaida's Foretlling, "The Dragon shall stand(come before?) the Amyrlin and know her displeasure." Which Alvarin and Elaida took to mean Elaida. Might have misquoted that a bit but I don't have the books with me in the truck. I know others disagree, but the ONLY army left of note is the Black Tower. We know a'ganor was there. I don't think he would have satisfied himself with just hanging in the background with rand unless Demandred was there first.

 

Problem is that the Forsaken never trod directly on each others toes.  If Demandred were already at/in/of the Black Tower, Aginor would have had to go elsewhere.  Since he didn't, Demandred is located somewhere else.

[elec1cele]

Not to mention, as the high seat in the hall of servants, summoner of the Nine Rods of Dominion, the "Oath Rods" kind of belong to him. Hos betta start payin' up for messin' with his stuff.

 

RJ has said the Oath Rods are not the Rods of Dominion

 

Question Part 1: I have a question about the Nine Rods of Dominion. We have a couple of references to this, and Ishamael says that Lews Therin summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, and theories have been floating around. Are the Oath Rods not the Nine Rods of Dominion?

Jordan: They were not the Oath Rods.

Question Part 2: Well are they positions of power? Were they people, or were they actual rods?

Jordan: They were actual people, and they were, but you might call them regional governors of the earth, regional governors of the planet. So if I say, summon them, then we've got a guy who has been given in effect ultimate power.

[coteaz]

 

Egwene will send a delegation to Rand.

 

 

Black Tower will break. :o

 

Demandred's location will be revealed, I almost want to think he is with the Borderlanders since no other Forsaken has shown up there.

 

Egwene will have a face to face meeting with Rand. Elaida's Foretlling, "The Dragon shall stand(come before?) the Amyrlin and know her displeasure." Which Alvarin and Elaida took to mean Elaida. Might have misquoted that a bit but I don't have the books with me in the truck. I know others disagree, but the ONLY army left of note is the Black Tower. We know a'ganor was there. I don't think he would have satisfied himself with just hanging in the background with rand unless Demandred was there first.

 

Problem is that the Forsaken never trod directly on each others toes.  If Demandred were already at/in/of the Black Tower, Aginor would have had to go elsewhere.  Since he didn't, Demandred is located somewhere else.

 

He may not actually be there physically, but using taim as a proxy to raise a channeling army.

[Leezus]

Not to mention, as the high seat in the hall of servants, summoner of the Nine Rods of Dominion, the "Oath Rods" kind of belong to him. Hos betta start payin' up for messin' with his stuff.

 

RJ has said the Oath Rods are not the Rods of Dominion

 

Question Part 1: I have a question about the Nine Rods of Dominion. We have a couple of references to this, and Ishamael says that Lews Therin summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, and theories have been floating around. Are the Oath Rods not the Nine Rods of Dominion?

Jordan: They were not the Oath Rods.

Question Part 2: Well are they positions of power? Were they people, or were they actual rods?

Jordan: They were actual people, and they were, but you might call them regional governors of the earth, regional governors of the planet. So if I say, summon them, then we've got a guy who has been given in effect ultimate power.

 

Aaah, no Foolin'. See, I figured it just meant he presided over punishments, that makes it much cooler. Thanks!

[Ged]

Turned out that despite having 'ultimate power' he still couldn't get women to do what he wanted :P

[b3arz3rg3r]

Turned out that despite having 'ultimate power' he still couldn't get women to do what he wanted :P

 

Even with ultimate power there are some things which are impossible.

[Ishmayl]

Egwene will find out from Rand about the truth on the oath rod and hopefully remove the stupid thing. 

 

What "truth" are you talking about?  They already know the Oath Rod limits age.

 

The truth that it was a device used to bind criminals.  Something he would know from his now integrated memories.

 

That should have nothing whatsoever to do with how it's used now, though.  So many things are used in different ways than what they were meant for.  The Aes Sedai don't know what the original use of the 3-Ring Ter'Angrael was for, but do you think if they all of a sudden found out it was simply meant as a diversionary tactic for unruly, angst-ridden teenage channelers (originally), they would stop testing Novices with it?

 

Not to mention, as the high seat in the hall of servants, summoner of the Nine Rods of Dominion, the "Oath Rods" kind of belong to him. Hos betta start payin' up for messin' with his stuff.

 

No, no, no, no, no.  The Nine Rods of Dominion have absolutely nothing to do with the Oath Rods.  The Nine Rods of Dominion were governors of various areas of the world during the Age of Legends.  There are over a hundred "Oath Rods" (binding rods), and the two are 100% UNRELATED.

 

[FanoLan]

Well, some interesting speculation throughout this thread, so I'm going to post some of my own  ;D  Long-time WoT addict, first read started in '95 and I've waited anxiously for every book since ACoS.  Cannot even estimate the number of re-reads, but seems like at least once a year all the way through (some sections skimmed of course).  Have not posted much on any board, but frequently lurk and love the (civil) debates back and forth on some of the issues - though some positions make no sense from time to time though.  On to the speculation ....

 

Although we received lots of the Rand story arc in tGS, I expect we'll get some more in ToM.  Specifically, I think we'll see the fulfillment of the second time Perrin has to be there to save Rand - this time from the hands of those at the Black Tower.  I think this capture will include some of the escaped/loose BA as well, possible some captured/bonded AS.  The Amyrlin will also prob be involved as a result of the AS emissaries having gone missing and Rand will know her anger for leaving the BT basically unsupervised and allowing it to turn into a sanctuary for evil male channelers.  The Two Rivers recruits that were briefly mentioned (Taim harvesting berries or some such) will also prob play a key role in assisting Perrin with the rescue.

 

Mat will get some good info from Birgitte about the ToG and head off with Thom and Noal to circle thrice 'round the gleaming, featureless structure - bearing items that make music to dazzle, fire to blind and iron to bind.  Olver's role?  Hmmmm - not a strong opinion on that one but maybe he'll sneak in and save the day after Noal is killed off/sacrificed within the ToG?  Tough negotiations follow (little foreshadowing in Mat's deal with the Seafolk Windfinders in EbDar) and the rescue party along with Moiraine are released.  Either Noal's long history and vast collection of memories or sharing the experience of Olver's yet to come adventures will be a part of the bargain - possibly both.

[cdmays]

I really want Mat to go Do his Tower of the Genji Bit. I think that that will defiantly be in the next book. ITs a Good long arc that Brandon can end it on.

 

I really thought during the Book that Moiraine was going to be the key to saving Rand's soul during the final battle.  My theory was set back by the ending in this book when Rand seems to shy away from the Shadow.

 

But, maybe the Dark One isn't done with Rand and the Dark One is going to continue to try to corrupt Rand, so that the fate of the world depends on Rands ultimate choice.  Maybe Elayne, Min, or Aviendha will die and Rand will go all evil Spider-Man again.

[fader6818]

We're going to see Avihenda in the columns. We're also going to see Nynaeve's test for Aes Sedai.

 

There will be lots of goodness in those scenes.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Being speculation, I think this one belongs here more than it does in the Forsaken Roundup thread.

 

Mesaana - I think in story terms she is the most immediately interesting Forsaken.

 

Where is she and what is she up to?

 

Sheriam was commanded to secure all of the Dream Ter'angreal and give them to Mesaana.  We see from Sheriam's storyline that she had been successful in doing this before the Seanchan attack.

 

Why does Mesaana want them?  What does she plan to do with them?

 

My guess is that she and probably Cyndane and Moghedien, along with probably 18 BA are going on a Heroes Hunt in T'a'R.  I think their intent is to somehow search out the souls of any Heroes that they can find and cast them out of T'a'R as Moggy did with Birgitte.  Difference being that there will be no Elayne handy to bond them and preserve their existence.

 

I think they will be at least successful enough to greatly blunt the effectiveness of any remaining Heroes when Mat sounds the Horn of Valere.

 

The most important casualty will likely be Artur Hawkwing.  Rand now apparently has the real Justice and it would be paradoxical for two Heroes to have the same sword in the same battle.  Another possible will be Rogosh Eagle-eye.

 

In-line with theories expressed by others elsewhere, I think the twins will be spared, being spun-out as Rand and Elayne's children before they can be caught in the purge.

 

These vacancies in the Heroes ranks may be what necessitates Rand's death.  However many Heroes remain will need a strong and powerful leader.  With Hawkwing gone, Birgitte now corporeal and much less effective as a result, Gaidal Cain already reborn but too young to take part, and other unknown holes in their ranks, that would seem to require the Dragon.  Rand will likely die close enough to the time when Mat sounds the Horn that the Hero Hunters will not find the Dragon in T'a'R.

 

Things will likely look very bleak for Team Light by the time Towers of Midnight ends.

[Declan]

Being speculation, I think this one belongs here more than it does in the Forsaken Roundup thread.

 

Mesaana - I think in story terms she is the most immediately interesting Forsaken.

 

Where is she and what is she up to?

 

Sheriam was commanded to secure all of the Dream Ter'angreal and give them to Mesaana.  We see from Sheriam's storyline that she had been successful in doing this before the Seanchan attack.

 

Why does Mesaana want them?  What does she plan to do with them?

 

My guess is that she and probably Cyndane and Moghedien, along with probably 18 BA are going on a Heroes Hunt in T'a'R.  I think their intent is to somehow search out the souls of any Heroes that they can find and cast them out of T'a'R as Moggy did with Birgitte.  Difference being that there will be no Elayne handy to bond them and preserve their existence.

 

I think they will be at least successful enough to greatly blunt the effectiveness of any remaining Heroes when Mat sounds the Horn of Valere.

 

The most important casualty will likely be Artur Hawkwing.  Rand now apparently has the real Justice and it would be paradoxical for two Heroes to have the same sword in the same battle.  Another possible will be Rogosh Eagle-eye.

 

In-line with theories expressed by others elsewhere, I think the twins will be spared, being spun-out as Rand and Elayne's children before they can be caught in the purge.

 

These vacancies in the Heroes ranks may be what necessitates Rand's death.  However many Heroes remain will need a strong and powerful leader.  With Hawkwing gone, Birgitte now corporeal and much less effective as a result, Gaidal Cain already reborn but too young to take part, and other unknown holes in their ranks, that would seem to require the Dragon.  Rand will likely die close enough to the time when Mat sounds the Horn that the Hero Hunters will not find the Dragon in T'a'R.

 

Things will likely look very bleak for Team Light by the time Towers of Midnight ends.

 

we know exactly where she is. she is in the White Tower that has been laid out a long time ago.

 

She wanted the dream ter'angreal so that the AS could not get into TAR. that is pretty simple. She is a forsaken and does not want the forces of light anything that could help them.

 

There is no way Mesaana is working with and for Cyndane and Moghedien. Those two are under direct control of Moridin, and since Mesaana is not there is no reason to think that she is helping or working with them. The only reason Birgitte was torn from TAR was because she was helping Elayne and Egwene not beacause Moghedien was searching for her.

[Bob T Dwarf]

No, we know she was in the White Tower, but we don't know where she is at present.

 

If she's gone to the trouble to collect those Dream  ter'angreal it seems likely that she's going to do more than sit on them.

 

Everybody is now working for Moridin.  Demandred even jumps when he says, "Toad."

[DafyddNZ79]

Galad is the man in white, and he will take the sun throne.

I beleive Moraine has been in the ToG before, she has had too much knowledge of the future. IMO she knows she is going to marry Thom. Her reactions in the EotW talking about the pattern weaving and stuff, when they are leaving Emond's Feild, show a knowledge of some things.

 

 

[AuldGoldBeard]

Pretty obvious that Messy wanted the dream ter'angreal to cut off Egwene's access to the rebels so that they would either elect a new Amyrlin or do something stupid without Egwene guiding them.  If Messy wanted to hunt down heroes, she could just as easily open a gateway to TAR and have her Black Ajah cronies hop through.  

 

Either way, the theory makes no sense.  It's risible to think that black sisters who have never been in TAR before know the world of dreams well enough to hunt down people who are not only the 150 or so greatest heroes in the history of the world, but who have also spent hundreds and hundreds of years living in TAR.

[Declan]

Moridin would like to think that he is in complete control. I think that Demandred may be playing nice now but right when he gets the chance he will try and kill Rand, and nothing can or will stop him.

 

Mesaana will probably hide the ter'angreal or just give them to Moridin. I doubt a forsaken wants a BA (someone below them) to have a power that previously only the Forsaken, and a couple others, had on the forces of dark. One of those selfish things

[Lord_of_the_Morning]

I think the Towers of Midnight is a quick reference to Fortuona's inevitable collaring, which would lead to the dismantling of the Seanchan's policy on channeling.  Her screams, and the screams of the Blood and the HighBlood in her retinue would be more than enough to shake the Towers of Midnight.  The Aes Sedai who created the a'dam for Hawkwing was imprisoned as such.  It is only fitting that the circle be complete with Fortuona discovering she has the spark.

[elec1cele]

I think the Towers of Midnight is a quick reference to Fortuona's inevitable collaring, which would lead to the dismantling of the Seanchan's policy on channeling.  Her screams, and the screams of the Blood and the HighBlood in her retinue would be more than enough to shake the Towers of Midnight.  The Aes Sedai who created the a'dam for Hawkwing was imprisoned as such.  It is only fitting that the circle be complete with Fortuona discovering she has the spark.

 

I doubt Fortuona has been working with an a'dam long enough to be able to be collared with it.  IIRC even the imperial family is not immune to becoming damane so even if it worked I don't see it causing the collapse of the Seanchan's policy.  The collaring of channelers is so ingrained in their culture I can't see it being resolved until after the last battle if ever.

 

Emma: Can the a'dam hold every sul'dam?

RJ: The a'dam can only hold sul'dam who have been sul'dam for a long time and so wearing the bracelet for a long time. Four months for example isn't enough. He said the circle helped them get to the point that's described in the book, as being on the brink of being able to channel, one foot stepped over or something

[coteaz]

Tuon is a Damane trainer, she has definitely worked long enough.

[BigTrainG]

Tuon is a Damane trainer, she has definitely worked long enough.

 

Seems like I remember Tuon mentioning that she has "almost" seen her Damane's weaves. When traveling with Mat and talking about training horses and Damane.

 

Somebody find and quote it. If she can "almost" see the weaves then the a'dam WILL hold her.