Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Hannah Banana]

I don't want to see the whole POV of Avi going through the columns, but I do want to know what she sees there for sure. Probably won't be too much to reveal, though, inasmuch as Rand pretty much Spoiler-ed that for the rest of the Aiel. Some people had mentioned her possibly finding "The Song" that the Tinkers search for, except... The Song isn't really lost. It's just that Tinkers don't know what it is. WE know what it is. Will they bother to "fix" the earth before TG, when it probably will get jacked again? You have to go through Rand, Avi, Loial, the Ogiers to get to that point. I'd rather use what little word count we have left for something more interesting :-\

 

I can't wait to see Morgase's return to Caemlyn, and I hope it's not in some lame flashback or aside mention. I don't think it will be, Morgase has to have some personal resolution, upon learning she was under the thumb of one of the Forsaken, and marry Tallanvor. And come to terms with her daughter knocked up by the Dragon Reborn! Maybe once Morgase gets rid of her emotional baggage and meets back up with Elayne and goes through the shock, anger, acceptance of Elayne's relationship with Rand, Elayne will pass word on to Egwene, via T'A'R, and Egwene will pass word on to Gawyn via pillow talk, and Gawyn can stop being a first class jerk.

 

And of course, we should get the more in-depth recounting of Perrin meeting up with the Whitecloaks--hopefully including Galad's recognition and revelation of Morgase, and of course Berelain and Galad getting it on. Galad should be challenge enough to keep Berelain interested.

 

I think the next book needs to move into Moiraine's rescue pretty quickly, because she needs some time to come up to speed and reunite satisfactorily with Rand and confront the other Aes Sedai (a.k.a. Cadsuane) who's manipulating him. Hopefully she doesn't come out of the tower and just decide to retire and run off with Thom! (She saw a vision about marrying Thom, so presuming she doesn't do that immediately after her return to the real world, it could be an indication that she and he will survive TG...)

 

I feel like the Seanchan either have to have some shattering change in their policy about channelers or they'll have to retreat to Seanchan after TG. They seem pretty comfortable in Randland right now, and the peoples they've conquered also seem content. The big conflict, really stressed in this book, was their feeling about channelers. Will someone finally unequivocally reveal that the sul'dam can channel? Will it break them? If the answer to those questions is yes, will that "encourage" them to ally at least temporarily with Rand?

 

I wouldn't argue against most of the book being from Logain's POV though, either. In all seriousness, the BT showdown between Logain and Taim could be during TG itself. Taim could launch a "surprise!behind you" sneak attack with his loyal DF Asha'man while Rand is otherwise occupied at the battle front, but Logain stomps him down like an insect.

 

I'm afraid that for the rest of the series, characterization will take a back burner, simply due to the sheer weight of what still has to be fulfilled. If the last book is going to basically be TG (and I desperately hope some good resolution after the fact!! don't you dare leave us hangin'), then this next book has a LOT of stuff to get through to get us to that point. It should be enjoyable, if a lot of it isn't done in passing. Like:

 

Elayne: Hey mom, wasn't it great when we were reunited and you found out I was pregnant with Rand's babies?

Morgase: Good times.

[b3arz3rg3r]

RJ stated that one may create an Oath Rod in TAR and use it to unbind oneself. Not sure how that worked given they were used as binders on criminals in an Age were every Aes Sedai was trained in Tel'aran'rhiod, but he said it nonetheless.

 

I think any unbinding or binding would only hold for as long as you are in TAR.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

I think Galad will take the throne of Cairhien. Rand will return Mattin Stepanos to Illian's crown, once he is discovered in the white tower, assuming he didn't escape or get offed in the raid, allowing  I can see him fighting in the raid tho, esp. as we are told he looked more suited to armor than his fine coat.

 

Borderlanders will return to their post's with their tails between their legs, having taken Rand's admonishments to heart, and hearing of Lan raising the Golden Crane. They will want to be there for that. Kind of a cop out way to wrap up that plotline, but we are running out of pages after all.

 

Seanchan, I'm not sure about yet. A couple ideas, but they need work. I think Mat will play an integral role, however.

 

Black Tower cleansing, with Logain's faction and some of the Aes Sedai for filler. I believe the majority of the Black Ajah has fled to the Black Tower.

 

The end will see Mat, Perrin, and Rand meeting again, Mat having learned something from Verin/Moraine, and Rand will figure out that the Last Battle will not be a massive battle and duel between him and the dark one and their respective forces. I do think, and had posted a week or so ago, that Rand's attempt to kill Shai'tan must be done within the pattern of reality. I compared it to Raistlin from the Dragonlance twins series, where he enters the abyss to fight the goddess, but in order to win he must draw her out into the real world, as she must take on a mortal form, since everything in the real world is mortal. Rand may do something similar, break the seals, enter Shayol Ghul, and attempt to draw him into the pattern. (Remember, the age lace was woven to keep him outside the pattern, and the bore is a hole in the pattern which allows him to reach inside)

 

Just a few ideas for now. I am still pondering a couple of theories, and will post once they are more concrete.

 

 

[firstfishman]

Maybe the three becomeing one refers to the three paragraphs of the old forgotten song that Thom found...

[Gis]

What about the actual Towers of Midnight themselves? In the Guide they are mentioned as being a physical construct in the province of Imfaral, in Seanchan, and later as the place that Deain was sent. Yet I doubt that we will be travelling to Seanchan itself so late in the series. Perhaps it is a metaphorical reference to the encroaching darkness upon the land, and the importance that "towers" will play in the volume. In that case, I suspect the Tower of Ghenjei and the Black Tower will be prominent. Which bodes *very* well indeed.

[Ash_Korsair]

hey i am new on the boards but not to the series.

anyway, dont shoot me if this has been handled before or if i misread it and missed it all together.

i wanna know who spoke to rand at the end of book 1.

like:

IT IS NOT HERE, I WILL NOT INTERFERE DIRECTLY or something like that

 

was that the creator?

or are shai'tan and the creator two sides to one medal?

 

but above all, i just want to read about moiraine in the next one. i miss her

[Ash_Korsair]

they should ask something like are you aligned with the DO or follow him in any way

 

Or, more specifically, "Are you Mesaana?," since Egwene knows she's there.

 

Comedy Option: Rand shows up and simply recognizes her.

 

Anyway, here's my prediction for the next book, based on this prophecy:

 

 

 

 

"Let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."

 

Rand's change of heart is going to result in Spring finally hitting, green things growing again, and valleys giving forth lambs (etc.)

 

Not bad.  The sun did appear above him on Dragonmount at the end.

 

mmm this great sword of justice....isnt hawkwings sword called justice?

is that maybe the sword rand carries? he recognised it from his own memory....he spoke to hawkwing in falme didnt he?

[Shimmer]

I really want Mat, Thom and Noal to go and get Moiraine from the Tower of Ghenjei. And for a truce to be made (finally!) between Tuon/Fortuona/Empress and Rand.

 

[move]  :D :D :D :D :D :D[/move]

[jwillis7]

i think that she needs to be rescued in ToM, and i think in the first half.  She needs to get out and get to Rand and help him start planning for TG.  I think she has to much to learn about what has happened and is to big of a character just to come in at the very last moment saving the day.  I think when we see Mat in the next book he will be in Caemlyn trying to find things out about the tower and just waiting on Verin to come get the letter.

[Second Chance]

I don't disagree that it's highly likely that Noal will be number three into the Tower, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being Aludra, or at the very least Aludra hooks Mat up with some fireworks to help him cheat:

 

Courage to strength - ?

Fire to blind - Aludra

Music to dazzle - Thom

Iron to bind - Mat?

[Eleint]

I don't disagree that it's highly likely that Noal will be number three into the Tower, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being Aludra, or at the very least Aludra hooks Mat up with some fireworks to help him cheat:

 

Courage to strength - ?

Fire to blind - Aludra

Music to dazzle - Thom

Iron to bind - Mat?

 

See, I think it is going to be:

 

Courage to strengthen: Olver

Fire to blind: Mat with Aludra's Matches

Music to dazzle: Thom, obviously

Iron to bind: Noal

 

See, I think that Moiraine knows she can't tell Mat about Olver.  Basically, Mat/Thom/Noal go in, do stuff, but something happens.  And Olver's courage in going in alone to help his friends, he does something that turns the tide.

 

Of course, the Courage could be all three and no Olver, but hey.  I kinda want Olver to do something big.

[Twitchy]

So, this doesn't exactly have to do with ToM, but I was reading in a different thread theories of what's going to happen after TG, and it hit me...

 

Holy crap what if the Shadow wins? Nobody saw that coming. Can't decide if I'd love the ending or hate it.

[aeshma]

I really hope to see the reactions of the Ashaman to the world almost being blown up. Could be it triggers the whole Black Tower in blood and fire thing.

[sdelu]

I want to know who/what Taim is, once and for all. It would be neat if he were Be'lal. It fits, and it would make everything about Taim make a bit more sense, and it can be explained (at lest as much as most other theories). I'd like to see the Forsaken who haven't done much of anything to, well, do something.

 

I would also like to see Moiraine come back, but for some reason I feel like she wouldn't meet up with Rand and Co until AMoL, just in time to turn the tides. How? Who knows. Maybe it's something Rand needs, maybe it's something Lan needs (which is Rand's indirect need, one could argue). Either way, I would think she would show up in a moment of crisis, and not just a random "oh by the way, Moiraine's alive" from Matt when she walks in the door.

[Eleint]

I want to know who/what Taim is, once and for all. It would be neat if he were Be'lal. It fits, and it would make everything about Taim make a bit more sense, and it can be explained (at lest as much as most other theories). I'd like to see the Forsaken who haven't done much of anything to, well, do something.

 

It's unlikely he's Be'lal for an important reason: Jordan said balefire blocks the DO's ability to shift souls unless the balefire is 'very weak'.  I don't think Moiraine's would be weak enough.  More like those tiny little balefire dart-type lines Rand was firing off at the Shadowspawn at the end of tFoH.

 

My opinion, though.

[Bellanoire]

Faile being revealed as a Darkfriend.

 

And how do you expect THAT to happen?

 

I can see it now......

 

Perrin: "I love you so much."

 

Faile: "I love you so much as well."

 

Perrin: She smells of jealousy, snarf snarf.

 

*BOOM, FAILE TURNS INTO DEMANDRED*

 

DemandraFaile: "HAHA! you have been making sweet love to a man since the beginning!"

 

*Perrin throws up*

 

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!i AM SERIOUSLY ROLLING ON THE FLOOR.

 

poeple at work are looking at me and i have tears in my eyes!!!!!!!dude do yuo want to be my warder, with wit like that we'd have a good ol time

[Bellanoire]

I also thought Avi might find the song, or at least an important clue in the rings.  I think it will be important or they would not put it in at this late date when we are finally seeing the plots come to a close.

 

Perin will have to make peace with the wolves if he expects to lead them in the last battle.

 

 

 

Rand already knows the song from the rings, he sang it as one of his ansetors, plus he knows hows to play an instrament, perrins going to hear him playing it after he's whpole hes sane again thing and ewill mention he heard it from tinkers in another age and will tell him to tell the tinkers now*l*

 

thinik well just find avies jurney back to rand and hear how hard it allw was to see it all in person then just hear about it.

[Bellanoire]

 

 

I just want to see Graendal alive, I love her. I cried when she died(didn't die),  I want her to survive Tarmon Gaidon, and just go into hiding or something.  She's easily my favorite character from any series ever. And she's the coolest and best of the forsaken imo.  She can't die!!!!!

 

 

Mesaana being caught by Egwene. Yes I think she's in the tower still.  Off topic a bit but,  Mesaana can't be posing as an Aes Sedai. Why? Aes Sedai that swore to the oath rod have the Ageless Look, Making it imposible for her to replace any Full Aes Sedai that had already achieved the Ageless Look.

 

Rand and Tam again... Tam might not be abel to forgive rand for trying to kill him. who knows.

 

 

i think shes laras the cook, but with ilision she could look like anyone, tam will forgive his boy anything and rand will finially weep on his fathers shoulder hug hug kiss kiss and then be kick ass again but with a soft candy cneter*l*

[Luckers]

RJ stated that one may create an Oath Rod in TAR and use it to unbind oneself. Not sure how that worked given they were used as binders on criminals in an Age were every Aes Sedai was trained in Tel'aran'rhiod, but he said it nonetheless.

 

I think any unbinding or binding would only hold for as long as you are in TAR.

 

Things done to a person hold through into the waking world--injuries sustained for instance. Yes, she wouldn't be able to bring the created Oath Rod out of the dream any more than Carlinya could have brought the knife that was used to cut her hair out of the dream, but he hair was still cut.

 

What about the actual Towers of Midnight themselves? In the Guide they are mentioned as being a physical construct in the province of Imfaral, in Seanchan, and later as the place that Deain was sent. Yet I doubt that we will be travelling to Seanchan itself so late in the series. Perhaps it is a metaphorical reference to the encroaching darkness upon the land, and the importance that "towers" will play in the volume. In that case, I suspect the Tower of Ghenjei and the Black Tower will be prominent. Which bodes *very* well indeed.

 

In point of fact we won't. RJ stated that the main sequence books would never return to Seanchan. Unless the title stems from a tale of the Towers of Midnight (possibly, if unlikely) then the Towers in question is not the Seanchan fortress--and note that the title is 'Towers of Midnight', not 'The Towers of Midnight'.

 

 

[Bellanoire]

Is anyone worried about the continually hints about Rand being blind in the future? That Seanchan prophecy mentioned by Tuon about Rand being blind was just another hint towards that direction. Hasn't enough been done to Rand at this point? I kinda feel like enough is enough of the negativity with Rand. It's time for a poor positive focus.

I think blind is not so literal, more figuertively speeking, he has been blinded for a while with his insanity and various ideas he's had for surving TG and alterego lewis terrin, and yadda yadda, way to many things, all of which have now fallen away. doesn't the porfacess say he reclaims his sight as well? As for his missing hand, they will learnhow to replace it soon enough, hopefully.

 

someone mentions the sword of justic, the one arthur hawkwing hand when called by the horn, is it the same one rand now has?? has anyone gone back to the book with flame and reread that pasage with hawkwing?

 

Tuon fortunata will trade anything for a relic from the hawkwing, that sword will pay the price for releasing all AS and leaving every female channler on this side of the ocean alone and uncollared, I'm thinking.

[Ted M]

We know that Matt and Thom are going to the tower to rescue Moiraine.  Who will they take with them?

 

Well Noal said in KoD that he would come along. Don't see reason to think he wouldn't therefore go with them.

 

Olver wants to go too.  I'm trying to discern who will 'bind them with iron.'

 

*shurg* Noal seems pretty adept with weapons himself. Why not him therefore? Didn't KoD make it pretty clear those 3 would go?

 

It made it pretty clear that those three were the ones who were planning on going. 

 

On the other hand, Olver's been obsessed with Snakes and Foxes for a very long time, and I can't see any reason for that to have been brought up so many times over the course of the series unless he's going to have some part to play in the rescue. 

 

Personally, I think Noal's going to get killed off before (probably right before) they go into the tower.  Either the gholam is going to take him out on his way to Mat, or some trace of a past compulsion is going to kick in, and Mat is going to end up killing him in some sort of really touching, poignant scene.

[The Desert Pea]

We know that Matt and Thom are going to the tower to rescue Moiraine.  Who will they take with them?

 

Well Noal said in KoD that he would come along. Don't see reason to think he wouldn't therefore go with them.

 

Olver wants to go too.  I'm trying to discern who will 'bind them with iron.'

 

*shurg* Noal seems pretty adept with weapons himself. Why not him therefore? Didn't KoD make it pretty clear those 3 would go?

 

It made it pretty clear that those three were the ones who were planning on going. 

 

On the other hand, Olver's been obsessed with Snakes and Foxes for a very long time, and I can't see any reason for that to have been brought up so many times over the course of the series unless he's going to have some part to play in the rescue. 

 

Personally, I think Noal's going to get killed off before (probably right before) they go into the tower.  Either the gholam is going to take him out on his way to Mat, or some trace of a past compulsion is going to kick in, and Mat is going to end up killing him in some sort of really touching, poignant scene.

 

If Noal has to die before they go into the Tower, and assuming he's Jain Farstrider, he better die a hero in a scene comparable to that of Ingtar's salvation.

[Tel Janin]

I'm re-reading PoD (on my umteenth series re-read), and I just had a thought...

 

Rand saw Perrin meeting Galad in tGS.  Berelain is with Perrin... It's time for her to be "swept off her feet by a man in white"...

[steave435]

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

Well, I suppose it warrants considering the option, but like someone else said, RJ stated that we have seen mesaanas alter ego, and I can't remember ever reading about her before. I'd suspect that it is just a red herring, especially after watching a recent interview with BS (

) talking about the amount of detailed work that RJ put into the surroundings of scenes, writing specific details about hundreds of charachters that were just part of someones army, never apearing at all in the books, but still having a name and background. It wouldn't be too hard or inconcieveable to just mention one of those.

RJ stated that one may create an Oath Rod in TAR and use it to unbind oneself. Not sure how that worked given they were used as binders on criminals in an Age were every Aes Sedai was trained in Tel'aran'rhiod, but he said it nonetheless.

"I swear to not do this, and that I will never try to free myself from this oath".

 

Holy crap what if the Shadow wins? Nobody saw that coming. Can't decide if I'd love the ending or hate it.

RJ mentioned in an interview with Fast Forward (either december 2005 or march 2003, I watched both on youtube at the same time and can't remember which one it was) a few years back that one thing he believe draws people to fantasy and the core of the genre is that people know that in the end, the good people win, and that it would be the same here.

[tneva82]

RJ mentioned in an interview with Fast Forward (either december 2005 or march 2003, I watched both on youtube at the same time and can't remember which one it was) a few years back that one thing he believe draws people to fantasy and the core of the genre is that people know that in the end, the good people win, and that it would be the same here.

 

Wonder what would happen if one day in book good guy would actually lose :D