I finally understand why don't like Perrin's post-LOC storylines

[Mr. Micawber]

Asunawa is not a hero by Word of God.

 

I mean, I started feeling deeply uncomfortable with their relationship ever since reading about the spanking, because that's overwhelmingly not cool. It's one thing to talk about the fact that, until two years ago, women had a monopoly on the Power, and so could make the strongest man look like a tiny girl in a shed, but Faile's no Aes Sedai. And Perrin was a freaking *blacksmith*! He's huge, and he's always been written as such.

 

But this guy is supposed to be the gentlest of Our Guys. Remember, at the beginning of ACOS he was ready to fight Rand over his treatment of the captured Aes Sedai. Then, suddenly, he's dismembering prisoners of war because he's angry over his wife being taken. It's not relevant that he's disgusted with himself. I mean, what he's just done is the "to the Pain" bit from Princess Bride. In addition to committing a war crime, he's done something that, unlike Asunawa's ministrations, *cannot* be repaired. Ever.

 

This could be forgiven if RJ were writing something like ASOIAF. But he's not. We've been told again and again and again how Rand's shift towards a "gray" hero is an unmitigated disaster. Indeed, Rand's "hardness" can't even be justified by raison d'etat, because it makes him a *worse* ruler. He's become extraordinarily arrogant and almost incapable of delegation; every time one of his subordinates makes a decision these days, he jumps down their throats. Witness, for example, his reaction to Darlin's nomination for the throne of Tear. Everyone, including Min, thinks he's an absolute jackhole about it. Or look at his reaction to Logain's use of his sigil on his uniform: Logain's words are that no one can take away what he is. The old Rand would have deeply sympathized with this sentiment, but the new Rand is almost jealous.

 

Perrin's not super-arrogant, he's become psychotic instead. I could understand this move if it were justified based on RJ's characterization of him throughout the series, but it's not. It's justified only tenuously on the basis of a relationship that is deeply uncomfortable for a hell of a lot of readers, and that I think is incredibly unhealthy.

 

For that reason, the fact that he tortures a guy is absolutely *wrong* in a way Asunawa's is not, because Asunawa has always been written as a crazy evil torturer guy.

 

Maybe if RJ had written Perrin the way GRRM's written Tyrion - namely, a fundamentally good guy who's been the butt monkey for Westeros his entire life, but who's never been anything like a saint - but he has not.

[Demon_AS]

I quite liked Perrin's story-arc. It's interesting seeing a man who's devoted to his wife (and I find it hard to understand why people find his obsession to hard to understand - imagine losing the love of your life; most people would do anything to get it back) and just wanting her back, but at the same time has a whole army to be responsible for that he never wanted, hanging around with people he doesn't really like and trying to resist a ludicrously beautiful woman that he doesn't want.

 

Also, I'm quite interested to see where his Wolfbrother abilities lead him! :)

 

Besides, I find reading about Perrin far more entertaining than reading about Elayne or Nynaeve... the former is too girly for my liking, and the latter just annoys me because she's so unreasonable most of the time.

[Mr. Micawber]

I quite liked Perrin's story-arc. It's interesting seeing a man who's devoted to his wife (and I find it hard to understand why people find his obsession to hard to understand - imagine losing the love of your life; most people would do anything to get it back) and just wanting her back, but at the same time has a whole army to be responsible for that he never wanted, hanging around with people he doesn't really like and trying to resist a ludicrously beautiful woman that he doesn't want.

 

But, as others have said, if this were really the case, Perrin - in Stonewall's words - be moving swiftly, striking vigorously and securing all the fruits of victory. Or in this case, his lady.

 

But he doesn't. He dithers, fails to make use of his status as a powerful lord until the battle at Malden, fails to enlist Rand's support - considering how Rand feels about harming women and about his two buddies, I'm pretty sure Rand would have given him half the Black Tower and the sworn Aes Sedai to get Faile back - or the support of Bashere and Bashere's BFF Bael, fails to even use his own super-power well. Instead, he makes LTT look like a paragon of rationality, and then he tortures people for information that his Asha'man and Aiel and wolves could get without *any* trouble, based on how RJ has written their abilities.

 

I agree, however, that I'd rather read Perrin's SL than Elayne's. In fact I'd rather read tax law than Elayne's thoughts.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Asunawa is not a hero by Word of God.

 

I mean, I started feeling deeply uncomfortable with their relationship ever since reading about the spanking, because that's overwhelmingly not cool. It's one thing to talk about the fact that, until two years ago, women had a monopoly on the Power, and so could make the strongest man look like a tiny girl in a shed, but Faile's no Aes Sedai. And Perrin was a freaking *blacksmith*! He's huge, and he's always been written as such.

 

But this guy is supposed to be the gentlest of Our Guys. Remember, at the beginning of ACOS he was ready to fight Rand over his treatment of the captured Aes Sedai. Then, suddenly, he's dismembering prisoners of war because he's angry over his wife being taken. It's not relevant that he's disgusted with himself. I mean, what he's just done is the "to the Pain" bit from Princess Bride. In addition to committing a war crime, he's done something that, unlike Asunawa's ministrations, *cannot* be repaired. Ever.

 

This could be forgiven if RJ were writing something like ASOIAF. But he's not. We've been told again and again and again how Rand's shift towards a "gray" hero is an unmitigated disaster. Indeed, Rand's "hardness" can't even be justified by raison d'etat, because it makes him a *worse* ruler. He's become extraordinarily arrogant and almost incapable of delegation; every time one of his subordinates makes a decision these days, he jumps down their throats. Witness, for example, his reaction to Darlin's nomination for the throne of Tear. Everyone, including Min, thinks he's an absolute jackhole about it. Or look at his reaction to Logain's use of his sigil on his uniform: Logain's words are that no one can take away what he is. The old Rand would have deeply sympathized with this sentiment, but the new Rand is almost jealous.

 

Perrin's not super-arrogant, he's become psychotic instead. I could understand this move if it were justified based on RJ's characterization of him throughout the series, but it's not. It's justified only tenuously on the basis of a relationship that is deeply uncomfortable for a hell of a lot of readers, and that I think is incredibly unhealthy.

 

For that reason, the fact that he tortures a guy is absolutely *wrong* in a way Asunawa's is not, because Asunawa has always been written as a crazy evil torturer guy.

 

Maybe if RJ had written Perrin the way GRRM's written Tyrion - namely, a fundamentally good guy who's been the butt monkey for Westeros his entire life, but who's never been anything like a saint - but he has not.

You seriously think Asunawa wouldn't cut someones hand off? That's just silly, I think he would in a heartbeat. Just because he's been portrayed as some crazy dude doesn't justify his actions either. I think it's extremely unfair to compare Perrin to someone like Asunawa who really doesn't care who he hurts so long as he gets a confession he's all good. Perrin was feelign pressured at that moment in time, he had everyone looking at him like he should do it and that's what drove him to make the decision he did. Peer pressure... except without the drugs haha.

 

What would you do if some girl kept punching you? I personally thought that scene was hilarious and wish he would have actually had the scene in the book. I think he was more than justified. What do you think about Mat spanking Joline? So what if Faile isn't Aes Sedai, this is her culture and it's the way she was taught (scary that). 

 

I don't think him reacting to her being taken away is uncharacteristic at all considering what he's been through. He just lost his entire family. Then he turns around and not long after that Faile is taken away. He has no one else so how exactly is he supossed to act?

 

 

But, as others have said, if this were really the case, Perrin - in Stonewall's words - be moving swiftly, striking vigorously and securing all the fruits of victory. Or in this case, his lady.

 

But he doesn't. He dithers, fails to make use of his status as a powerful lord until the battle at Malden, fails to enlist Rand's support - considering how Rand feels about harming women and about his two buddies, I'm pretty sure Rand would have given him half the Black Tower and the sworn Aes Sedai to get Faile back - or the support of Bashere and Bashere's BFF Bael, fails to even use his own super-power well. Instead, he makes LTT look like a paragon of rationality, and then he tortures people for information that his Asha'man and Aiel and wolves could get without *any* trouble, based on how RJ has written their abilities.

 

I agree, however, that I'd rather read Perrin's SL than Elayne's. In fact I'd rather read tax law than Elayne's thoughts.

He wasn't supossed to contact Rand at all until he got back with Masema, that was the whole point in the "fight" they had. Do I think Rand would have been mad if he? No, I think you're right, Rand would have tried to find a way to help him. But at the same time if they had just left and then came back after talking to Rand it might have been harder to find her. They had a problems enough trying to track her without completely leacving the area.

 

I think (someone else said this too but I can't remember for the life of me who) that RJ just wasn't sure what else to do with Perrin so this is what he came up with. However, the battle at Malden seriously helped in more ways than one and I think that going through this was worth it just to see that battle and see how much it really helped everyone out in the long run. (Just me personally, I'm sure everyone disagrees with me haha.)

[Mr. Micawber]

You seriously think Asunawa wouldn't cut someones hand off? That's just silly, I think he would in a heartbeat. Just because he's been portrayed as some crazy dude doesn't justify his actions either. I think it's extremely unfair to compare Perrin to someone like Asunawa who really doesn't care who he hurts so long as he gets a confession he's all good. Perrin was feelign pressured at that moment in time, he had everyone looking at him like he should do it and that's what drove him to make the decision he did. Peer pressure... except without the drugs haha.

 

I could believe Asunawa would do everything including gut somebody. That's what RJ has made clear Questioners do. But the sole example of Asunawa's torture we get is Morgase, and her attitude is that it was only supplementary to the real torture of sleeping with Valda. Moreover, it was intended to be intensely painful, without leaving any lasting physical problems, so that it would appear Morgase confessed to whatever he wanted by her own free will. That doesn't mean it wouldn't drive her insane, of course.

 

In fact, Asunawa could do exactly what Perrin does, but what Perrin does is worse, because he's one of Our Guys. That makes it worse; as I said, if RJ wrote his good guys as deeply flawed human beings existing in a nasty world - which, as I said, someone like GRRM does - I could understand that. But that's not how he writes, so it's a huge shock. Indeed, if you ever read his comments about the Perrin/Faile relationship, which is the catalyst for his behavior, it is abundantly clear that RJ never had any understanding of how much it turned off his readers. In fact, he could get pretty defensive about it, and his comments about Perrin left me feeling that he thought we're supposed to be rooting for this crap.

 

Meanwhile, you laugh about the spanking, but for me, that's physical abuse, full-stop. He is massively stronger than her. I don't think it matters at all what "culture" she comes from. That's like saying I should respect female circumcision, because, actually, that practice really is a major aspect of some real life cultures.

 

What bothers me is that RJ never ever suggests that what he does is wrong in the slightest. Instead, he makes it pretty clear that the girl's own mother gets hot and bothered when her father demonstrates his own superior physical strength. Look, you could compare my feelings on this to Rand's "chivalry", but what makes the latter supremely dysfunctional is that Rand applies it to women regardless of whether they're Shadowsworn or, like Lanfear or Semirhage, able to match him strength for strength. My issue is that it is morally reprehensible for a much stronger party to use physical force against a weaker one absent any real threat to the former, irrespective of gender. I'm as pissed off by things like Aes Sedai using their power to beat up men as I am by Perrin doing what he did. I don't think that kind of behavior is worthy of LoLing.

 

He wasn't supossed to contact Rand at all until he got back with Masema, that was the whole point in the "fight" they had. Do I think Rand would have been mad if he? No, I think you're right, Rand would have tried to find a way to help him. But at the same time if they had just left and then came back after talking to Rand it might have been harder to find her. They had a problems enough trying to track her without completely leacving the area.

 

So you're telling me, in effect, it's completely understandable that Perrin tortures and even thinks that he might swear to the Shadow to get Faile back, but that he would obey the parameters of the "fight"? That's completely illogical, and frankly, ridiculous.

 

While I believe RJ's narrative case for making Perrin psychotic was extraordinarily weak, the fact remains that once Faile was kidnapped, he was willing to do anything, in his own words up to and including joining the Shadow.

 

And he's not willing to use the best weapon at his disposal, his best friend since childhood? I have to call serious BS on this.

 

The fact is that RJ drew out this plotline for four books. He was not "confused" about where to put Perrin, he did this because he wanted to. Same with the idiotic Elayne story line. He removed Mat entirely from Book 8, and I could understand that because he did that for Perrin in Book 5.

 

But then in KOD, and even more so in COT, he barely gave any chapters to Rand, the savior of the bloody world, so that we could read chapters from Faile's perspective about being kidnapped. And at the same time, we're told that the Last Battle is coming.

 

That makes it *more* important that we have chapters from either Rand or his group, not less. TDR, which barely featured Rand at all, before he was even really acknowledged as the Dragon Reborn, still had more pages devoted to him than COT. And it wasn't too much different from the face time he was given in KOD.

[Demon_AS]

I quite liked Perrin's story-arc. It's interesting seeing a man who's devoted to his wife (and I find it hard to understand why people find his obsession to hard to understand - imagine losing the love of your life; most people would do anything to get it back) and just wanting her back, but at the same time has a whole army to be responsible for that he never wanted, hanging around with people he doesn't really like and trying to resist a ludicrously beautiful woman that he doesn't want.

 

But, as others have said, if this were really the case, Perrin - in Stonewall's words - be moving swiftly, striking vigorously and securing all the fruits of victory. Or in this case, his lady.

 

But he doesn't. He dithers, fails to make use of his status as a powerful lord until the battle at Malden, fails to enlist Rand's support - considering how Rand feels about harming women and about his two buddies, I'm pretty sure Rand would have given him half the Black Tower and the sworn Aes Sedai to get Faile back - or the support of Bashere and Bashere's BFF Bael, fails to even use his own super-power well. Instead, he makes LTT look like a paragon of rationality, and then he tortures people for information that his Asha'man and Aiel and wolves could get without *any* trouble, based on how RJ has written their abilities.

 

I agree, however, that I'd rather read Perrin's SL than Elayne's. In fact I'd rather read tax law than Elayne's thoughts.

What you say is absolutely correct - a normal, forward-thinking and logical person may well have done exactly what you suggested. But let's look at things in context:

 

1) Perrin is mad with grief. He's so focused on the "hunt" - it probably never even occurred to him to ask Rand for aid. Or anyone else, for that matter - recall that he's not at ease with being a Lord, and needs lessons from Faile in even the most basic things!

 

2) Don't forget that the last time Perrin was in Rand's presence, Rand hauled him up with the OP and threw him across the room. Hardly the "friendly" relationship you're describing - so, even if the idea did occur to him, he probably would've decided not to. Male pride is still pride.

 

3) Furthermore, Faile is his wife, and therefore his responsibility. Perrin's been painted as this responsible, sensible young man who takes the right things seriously. He's also something of a "lone wolf" (pun sort of intended). That kind of attitude means that when something goes wrong, he's going to try and fix it. Alone.

 

So, yes, there are probably plenty of things he could've done. But don't forget that, as a result of his ignoring the Rand-option as a source for help, he instead managed to forge a working relationship with the Seanchan - something Rand is also trying to achieve - and gained the respect of their commanders.

 

In conclusion - the bigger picture is always made up of smaller, mini-pictures :). When taken contextually, you can probably find a reason for why Perrin did what he did, as I have outlined above! No doubt I have missed many other possible interpretations, but that's how it goes! :)

[Mr. Micawber]

2) Don't forget that the last time Perrin was in Rand's presence, Rand hauled him up with the OP and threw him across the room. Hardly the "friendly" relationship you're describing - so, even if the idea did occur to him, he probably would've decided not to. Male pride is still pride.

 

It was a little more harsh than necessary - as both men later think to themselves - but it was absolutely planned between them.

[wavemistresstrammell]

I could believe Asunawa would do everything including gut somebody. That's what RJ has made clear Questioners do. But the sole example of Asunawa's torture we get is Morgase, and her attitude is that it was only supplementary to the real torture of sleeping with Valda. Moreover, it was intended to be intensely painful, without leaving any lasting physical problems, so that it would appear Morgase confessed to whatever he wanted by her own free will. That doesn't mean it wouldn't drive her insane, of course.

 

In fact, Asunawa could do exactly what Perrin does, but what Perrin does is worse, because he's one of Our Guys. That makes it worse; as I said, if RJ wrote his good guys as deeply flawed human beings existing in a nasty world - which, as I said, someone like GRRM does - I could understand that. But that's not how he writes, so it's a huge shock. Indeed, if you ever read his comments about the Perrin/Faile relationship, which is the catalyst for his behavior, it is abundantly clear that RJ never had any understanding of how much it turned off his readers. In fact, he could get pretty defensive about it, and his comments about Perrin left me feeling that he thought we're supposed to be rooting for this crap.

The difference between Morgase and this Aiel was that she obviously didn't put up a fight, like you said, so apparently Asunawa got his information a little easier that Perrin did. I plea emotional distress for my client.

 

Everyone is flawed, just because Perrin is a good guy doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing something like that, as has been shown over and over again, none of the characters are perfect. You're not realizing that at that point in time he was emotionally distressed and was feeling pressured. That's the point. Like I said before I think it's unfair to compare him to someone like Asunawa.

 

Meanwhile, you laugh about the spanking, but for me, that's physical abuse, full-stop. He is massively stronger than her. I don't think it matters at all what "culture" she comes from. That's like saying I should respect female circumcision, because, actually, that practice really is a major aspect of some real life cultures.

 

Physical abuse... really, like some of her past actions weren't abusive even slightly? So it's ok for a woman to constantly punch a man because she's a woman? I don't think so. She had it coming.

 

What bothers me is that RJ never ever suggests that what he does is wrong in the slightest. Instead, he makes it pretty clear that the girl's own mother gets hot and bothered when her father demonstrates his own superior physical strength.

People are like that... people have very strange fetishes, get over it. It could be something worse than that.

 

So you're telling me, in effect, it's completely understandable that Perrin tortures and even thinks that he might swear to the Shadow to get Faile back, but that he would obey the parameters of the "fight"? That's completely illogical, and frankly, ridiculous.

 

While I believe RJ's narrative case for making Perrin psychotic was extraordinarily weak, the fact remains that once Faile was kidnapped, he was willing to do anything, in his own words up to and including joining the Shadow.

And he's not willing to use the best weapon at his disposal, his best friend since childhood? I have to call serious BS on this.

 

He wouldn't literally go to the Shadow. My god he's not that stupid. Perrin did what he thought was best at that moment in time. Like I said before, he's flawed like everyone else in the series and I don't see how what he does is any worse than what everyone else has done. Like I stated earlier, he was emotionally distressed and wasn't thinking clearly, give the guy a break.

 

The fact is that RJ drew out this plotline for four books. He was not "confused" about where to put Perrin, he did this because he wanted to. Same with the idiotic Elayne story line. He removed Mat entirely from Book 8, and I could understand that because he did that for Perrin in Book 5.

 

But then in KOD, and even more so in COT, he barely gave any chapters to Rand, the savior of the bloody world, so that we could read chapters from Faile's perspective about being kidnapped. And at the same time, we're told that the Last Battle is coming.

 

That makes it *more* important that we have chapters from either Rand or his group, not less. TDR, which barely featured Rand at all, before he was even really acknowledged as the Dragon Reborn, still had more pages devoted to him than COT. And it wasn't too much different from the face time he was given in KOD.

 

He is the author, there's not much that can be done about what he's written already. I personally didn't mind because Perrin is my favorite character. I didn't like Elayne's storyline... I'll agree with you on one thing I guess.

 

He didn't focus on Rand because he either didn't want to or felt that he was farther ahead in the storyline. TDR, that was intentional, we were supossed to be wondering what was going on with him and wonder if he was crazy already or not.

 

We all interpret things differently, just because I interpretted some things differently does not mean that I'm absolutely wrong and of course I'm probably not right... I'm not the author. I didn't write about these characters and I didn't get to know them the way RJ did. We may never know why he did the things he did with the series and with some of the characters. I see where you're coming from, but I just don't agree with you, and there's nothing wrong with us disagreeing... the beauty of being able to have an opinion ^.^

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Micawber]

I quite liked Perrin's story-arc. It's interesting seeing a man who's devoted to his wife (and I find it hard to understand why people find his obsession to hard to understand - imagine losing the love of your life; most people would do anything to get it back) and just wanting her back, but at the same time has a whole army to be responsible for that he never wanted, hanging around with people he doesn't really like and trying to resist a ludicrously beautiful woman that he doesn't want.

 

But, as others have said, if this were really the case, Perrin - in Stonewall's words - be moving swiftly, striking vigorously and securing all the fruits of victory. Or in this case, his lady.

 

But he doesn't. He dithers, fails to make use of his status as a powerful lord until the battle at Malden, fails to enlist Rand's support - considering how Rand feels about harming women and about his two buddies, I'm pretty sure Rand would have given him half the Black Tower and the sworn Aes Sedai to get Faile back - or the support of Bashere and Bashere's BFF Bael, fails to even use his own super-power well. Instead, he makes LTT look like a paragon of rationality, and then he tortures people for information that his Asha'man and Aiel and wolves could get without *any* trouble, based on how RJ has written their abilities.

 

I agree, however, that I'd rather read Perrin's SL than Elayne's. In fact I'd rather read tax law than Elayne's thoughts.

What you say is absolutely correct - a normal, forward-thinking and logical person may well have done exactly what you suggested. But let's look at things in context:

 

1) Perrin is mad with grief. He's so focused on the "hunt" - it probably never even occurred to him to ask Rand for aid. Or anyone else, for that matter - recall that he's not at ease with being a Lord, and needs lessons from Faile in even the most basic things!

 

2) Don't forget that the last time Perrin was in Rand's presence, Rand hauled him up with the OP and threw him across the room. Hardly the "friendly" relationship you're describing - so, even if the idea did occur to him, he probably would've decided not to. Male pride is still pride.

 

3) Furthermore, Faile is his wife, and therefore his responsibility. Perrin's been painted as this responsible, sensible young man who takes the right things seriously. He's also something of a "lone wolf" (pun sort of intended). That kind of attitude means that when something goes wrong, he's going to try and fix it. Alone.

 

So, yes, there are probably plenty of things he could've done. But don't forget that, as a result of his ignoring the Rand-option as a source for help, he instead managed to forge a working relationship with the Seanchan - something Rand is also trying to achieve - and gained the respect of their commanders.

 

In conclusion - the bigger picture is always made up of smaller, mini-pictures :). When taken contextually, you can probably find a reason for why Perrin did what he did, as I have outlined above! No doubt I have missed many other possible interpretations, but that's how it goes! :)

 

But what I really want to know, and you haven't answered this, is why Perrin is willing to make a deal with the Shadow *but never once thinks about asking his friend*!?

 

I get that he's psychotic because she's gotten kidnapped, but this is a gaping hole in the narrative.

 

Btw, I absolutely agree with you about Tylee. I think she's going to be an absolute key for Rand & Co. getting the Seanchan on their side for TG.

 

That's why Perrin's story line is more important than Elayne's every day of the week.

 

But it could have been wrapped up in one and half books with the exact same result, instead of taking up four.

[Demon_AS]

I quite liked Perrin's story-arc. It's interesting seeing a man who's devoted to his wife (and I find it hard to understand why people find his obsession to hard to understand - imagine losing the love of your life; most people would do anything to get it back) and just wanting her back, but at the same time has a whole army to be responsible for that he never wanted, hanging around with people he doesn't really like and trying to resist a ludicrously beautiful woman that he doesn't want.

 

But, as others have said, if this were really the case, Perrin - in Stonewall's words - be moving swiftly, striking vigorously and securing all the fruits of victory. Or in this case, his lady.

 

But he doesn't. He dithers, fails to make use of his status as a powerful lord until the battle at Malden, fails to enlist Rand's support - considering how Rand feels about harming women and about his two buddies, I'm pretty sure Rand would have given him half the Black Tower and the sworn Aes Sedai to get Faile back - or the support of Bashere and Bashere's BFF Bael, fails to even use his own super-power well. Instead, he makes LTT look like a paragon of rationality, and then he tortures people for information that his Asha'man and Aiel and wolves could get without *any* trouble, based on how RJ has written their abilities.

 

I agree, however, that I'd rather read Perrin's SL than Elayne's. In fact I'd rather read tax law than Elayne's thoughts.

What you say is absolutely correct - a normal, forward-thinking and logical person may well have done exactly what you suggested. But let's look at things in context:

 

1) Perrin is mad with grief. He's so focused on the "hunt" - it probably never even occurred to him to ask Rand for aid. Or anyone else, for that matter - recall that he's not at ease with being a Lord, and needs lessons from Faile in even the most basic things!

 

2) Don't forget that the last time Perrin was in Rand's presence, Rand hauled him up with the OP and threw him across the room. Hardly the "friendly" relationship you're describing - so, even if the idea did occur to him, he probably would've decided not to. Male pride is still pride.

 

3) Furthermore, Faile is his wife, and therefore his responsibility. Perrin's been painted as this responsible, sensible young man who takes the right things seriously. He's also something of a "lone wolf" (pun sort of intended). That kind of attitude means that when something goes wrong, he's going to try and fix it. Alone.

 

So, yes, there are probably plenty of things he could've done. But don't forget that, as a result of his ignoring the Rand-option as a source for help, he instead managed to forge a working relationship with the Seanchan - something Rand is also trying to achieve - and gained the respect of their commanders.

 

In conclusion - the bigger picture is always made up of smaller, mini-pictures :). When taken contextually, you can probably find a reason for why Perrin did what he did, as I have outlined above! No doubt I have missed many other possible interpretations, but that's how it goes! :)

 

But what I really want to know, and you haven't answered this, is why Perrin is willing to make a deal with the Shadow *but never once thinks about asking his friend*!?

 

I get that he's psychotic because she's gotten kidnapped, but this is a gaping hole in the narrative.

 

Btw, I absolutely agree with you about Tylee. I think she's going to be an absolute key for Rand & Co. getting the Seanchan on their side for TG.

 

That's why Perrin's story line is more important than Elayne's every day of the week.

 

But it could have been wrapped up in one and half books with the exact same result, instead of taking up four.

A good question, I reckon. To be honest, I never really considered it, but now that you've asked, I am forced to think about it.

 

My guess is that Perrin was interpreting his own actions as something only someone from the Shadow would consider doing. I am, of course, referring specifically to his throwing a tantrum and using his axe in a way none of us ever thought he would. I am guessing that, as with Rand, there's a lot of repressed guilt in him, and he considers his actions as necessary towards attaining his goal - namely, getting Faile back. So, while he hasn't - and would never - make a deal with the Shadow (at least not before exploring other more tenable options), it was his own sense of hyperbole that led him to think that.

 

I don't like the above reasoning, because it seems a bit sketchy - even to me. But, shy of an error by RJ, I can't see any other plausible reason Perrin would consider it. He's no Darkfriend, after all.

[wavemistresstrammell]

My guess is that Perrin was interpreting his own actions as something only someone from the Shadow would consider doing. I am, of course, referring specifically to his throwing a tantrum and using his axe in a way none of us ever thought he would. I am guessing that, as with Rand, there's a lot of repressed guilt in him, and he considers his actions as necessary towards attaining his goal - namely, getting Faile back. So, while he hasn't - and would never - make a deal with the Shadow (at least not before exploring other more tenable options), it was his own sense of hyperbole that led him to think that.

 

I don't like the above reasoning, because it seems a bit sketchy - even to me. But, shy of an error by RJ, I can't see any other plausible reason Perrin would consider it. He's no Darkfriend, after all.

Yes I see what you mean by his interpretation. ^.^

 

Let me guess... MY reasoning is sketchy... yes, well I never said I was the brightest crayon in the box. *shrugs*

[Demon_AS]

My guess is that Perrin was interpreting his own actions as something only someone from the Shadow would consider doing. I am, of course, referring specifically to his throwing a tantrum and using his axe in a way none of us ever thought he would. I am guessing that, as with Rand, there's a lot of repressed guilt in him, and he considers his actions as necessary towards attaining his goal - namely, getting Faile back. So, while he hasn't - and would never - make a deal with the Shadow (at least not before exploring other more tenable options), it was his own sense of hyperbole that led him to think that.

 

I don't like the above reasoning, because it seems a bit sketchy - even to me. But, shy of an error by RJ, I can't see any other plausible reason Perrin would consider it. He's no Darkfriend, after all.

Yes I see what you mean by his interpretation. ^.^

 

Let me guess... MY reasoning is sketchy... yes, well I never said I was the brightest crayon in the box. *shrugs*

I beg your pardon? :) I never made a comment about your reasoning - in truth, I was merely replying to Mr. Micawber's queries regarding my post.

 

Your arguments that Perrin is only human and can be expected to slip up now and again seem to complement my ideas pretty well, so perhaps I merely misunderstood what you meant.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Eh I'm used to being wrong all the time so I assumed it was me you were talking about.... trust me my husband never let's me live it down when I'm wrong when he thinks I am. The sad thing is he's always right... what a jerk haha. He can't even let me have small victories haha.

[Demon_AS]

Eh I'm used to being wrong all the time so I assumed it was me you were talking about.... trust me my husband never let's me live it down when I'm wrong when he thinks I am. The sad thing is he's always right... what a jerk haha. He can't even let me have small victories haha.

Ha, oh no - I specifically quoted Mr. Micawber to avoid such misinterpretations :). I apologise if you felt I was making an unfair comment on your post - I was not.

[wavemistresstrammell]

No no no I didn't, I was just making sure I wasn't misinterpreting. Ahhhh... the effects of no sleep haha ^.^

[Demon_AS]

No no no I didn't, I was just making sure I wasn't misinterpreting. Ahhhh... the effects of no sleep haha ^.^

Ha, I am well familiar with sleep-deprivation.

 

Do you think Perrin's story-arc is less entertaining than the other characters'?

[wavemistresstrammell]

Not really. I didn't care for him chasing after Faile the first time I read the series, but then the second time I read through the series I had no problem getting through it. Not sure if it's because I was prepared for it or not. He's certainly more entertaining than Elayne or Min or Nynaeve in my opinion.

 

How about you? Did you like Perrin's storyline?

[Mr. Micawber]

Not really. I didn't care for him chasing after Faile the first time I read the series, but then the second time I read through the series I had no problem getting through it. Not sure if it's because I was prepared for it or not. He's certainly more entertaining than Elayne or Min or Nynaeve in my opinion.

 

How about you? Did you like Perrin's storyline?

 

Elayne's story line makes me want to read tax law while being beaten by 100 angry Aielmen.

 

Nynaeve has two things going for her in my book: she healed Logain, and she cleansed the entire flaming Male half of the True Source.

 

But I hope dearly Sanderson down plays the braid tugging in the last three books.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Elayne's story line makes me want to read tax law while being beaten by 100 angry Aielmen.

 

Nynaeve has two things going for her in my book: she healed Logain, and she cleansed the entire flaming Male half of the True Source.

 

But I hope dearly Sanderson down plays the braid tugging in the last three books.

 

I completely agree with you. I giggled when I saw what you wrote about Elayne... I'm still chuckling actually haha.

 

I hope he does downplay that too, I've read all the books he came out with and I think it's safe to say I loved them. I know he'll stay true to wha RJ lft but I have faith in him to hopefully eliminate most of the braid tugging haha.

[Demon_AS]

Not really. I didn't care for him chasing after Faile the first time I read the series, but then the second time I read through the series I had no problem getting through it. Not sure if it's because I was prepared for it or not. He's certainly more entertaining than Elayne or Min or Nynaeve in my opinion.

 

How about you? Did you like Perrin's storyline?

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

He was a good choice for the Two Rivers even if he's to stubborn to know it haha. Yeah I don't know if he handled Faile really well, but I still liked that he actually stood up for himself instead of sitting there and taking all her crap. Reminded me of when Lan first met Moiraine in New Spring haha.

 

I agree I love reading about Mat, he's good comic relief in the series. I always enjoyed reading his POVs.

[Demon_AS]

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

He was a good choice for the Two Rivers even if he's to stubborn to know it haha. Yeah I don't know if he handled Faile really well, but I still liked that he actually stood up for himself instead of sitting there and taking all her crap. Reminded me of when Lan first met Moiraine in New Spring haha.

 

I agree I love reading about Mat, he's good comic relief in the series. I always enjoyed reading his POVs.

Yeah, reading about Mat is great in contrast with Rand and Perrin. The latter two are always so focused on doing what's right and being responsible, but not Mat - he just wants to gamble and fondle with equal delight. It's always fun seeing responsibility trying to settle itself on Mat's shoulders :D.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

He was a good choice for the Two Rivers even if he's to stubborn to know it haha. Yeah I don't know if he handled Faile really well, but I still liked that he actually stood up for himself instead of sitting there and taking all her crap. Reminded me of when Lan first met Moiraine in New Spring haha.

 

I agree I love reading about Mat, he's good comic relief in the series. I always enjoyed reading his POVs.

Yeah, reading about Mat is great in contrast with Rand and Perrin. The latter two are always so focused on doing what's right and being responsible, but not Mat - he just wants to gamble and fondle with equal delight. It's always fun seeing responsibility trying to settle itself on Mat's shoulders :D.

Haha it is, he always freaks out like "What in the world am I doing?!" It's funt to read haha.

[Demon_AS]

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

He was a good choice for the Two Rivers even if he's to stubborn to know it haha. Yeah I don't know if he handled Faile really well, but I still liked that he actually stood up for himself instead of sitting there and taking all her crap. Reminded me of when Lan first met Moiraine in New Spring haha.

 

I agree I love reading about Mat, he's good comic relief in the series. I always enjoyed reading his POVs.

Yeah, reading about Mat is great in contrast with Rand and Perrin. The latter two are always so focused on doing what's right and being responsible, but not Mat - he just wants to gamble and fondle with equal delight. It's always fun seeing responsibility trying to settle itself on Mat's shoulders :D.

Haha it is, he always freaks out like "What in the world am I doing?!" It's funt to read haha.

It certainly is! :)

 

But back to the topic, Perrin's storyline, I guess, might not be as entertaining as Mat's because it's pretty much the same thing for two whole books - I must find Faile, I must find Faile! - whereas Mat's got tons to deal with in trying to escape Seanchan detection as he flees Altara; wondering why in the hell he was fated to marry Tuon and, at the same time, trying to keep all the womenfolk in his happy little camp from killing each other. It's a merry juggle!

[wavemistresstrammell]

Yeah, I thought he was a good choice for Lord of the Two Rivers. And his chasing of Faile was pretty good, I thought - I liked the interplay there lol. Particularly when he finally did something about her stubbornness (although admittedly he tackled the situation a little differently than I would have lol).

 

I think, post-LoC, the story line I've enjoyed the most has been Mat's. He's definitely my favourite out of our three ta'veren heroes.

He was a good choice for the Two Rivers even if he's to stubborn to know it haha. Yeah I don't know if he handled Faile really well, but I still liked that he actually stood up for himself instead of sitting there and taking all her crap. Reminded me of when Lan first met Moiraine in New Spring haha.

 

I agree I love reading about Mat, he's good comic relief in the series. I always enjoyed reading his POVs.

Yeah, reading about Mat is great in contrast with Rand and Perrin. The latter two are always so focused on doing what's right and being responsible, but not Mat - he just wants to gamble and fondle with equal delight. It's always fun seeing responsibility trying to settle itself on Mat's shoulders :D.

Haha it is, he always freaks out like "What in the world am I doing?!" It's funt to read haha.

It certainly is! :)

 

But back to the topic, Perrin's storyline, I guess, might not be as entertaining as Mat's because it's pretty much the same thing for two whole books - I must find Faile, I must find Faile! - whereas Mat's got tons to deal with in trying to escape Seanchan detection as he flees Altara; wondering why in the hell he was fated to marry Tuon and, at the same time, trying to keep all the womenfolk in his happy little camp from killing each other. It's a merry juggle!

Yeah I agree, not the most entertaining but it was worth it for the ending result (just my opinion I know others don't agree). Mat was my favortite to read for every reason you stated above.