White Tower Mafia *Starting*

[Elgee]

How would we know who the Heads are?

 

And I'm sticking to my vote for [glow=red,2,300]Mmeesh[/glow] - my reason being that I think she has the most points.

[Torrie]

I think that is what we need to figure out. I have a few ideas but I am waiting to see what happens.

[Crystal Tipps]

Ok can I just ask, for clarification, where was it stated that if we took out the Ajah head that would kill the entire Ajah. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember reading this anywhere.  :-\

 

Ok here is an interesting idea for you. Right you think that lynching the high point earners is a good tactic, but I am going to go against that now and say that maybe we should keep them in the game for now. We don't know who is in their Ajah, so the only way to know for sure where the most points are is to keep that player in the game. Otherwise those points are out there being used by... we don't know who. At least with the high point scorers we have a target for potentially stopping their night actions. We can use it to our advantage raher than treating it as a threat.

 

No vote yet, I will try and decide on something tomorrow.

[Talya]

It was in the spiel that Dragon gave you with your Ajah, at least thats where I thought it was.

Knowing who the Ajah Head is not going to be easy. Excpet where someone has been recruited, then they could tell their new team mates I suppose.

[Crystal Tipps]

Ok thanks Talya I will go find it  ;)

[Talya]

He told my Ajah on our quick topics thing! Hope that helps ;)

[Crystal Tipps]

That's ok I found it  :)

[LilyElizabeth]

I have questions for both Lily & Ludmian.  I notice that after posting my vote for Min, Ludmian comes in with this response:

 

I don't like the randomness of this bandwagon. Last day we had a reason to be suspicious of Cosmicpanda. Besides he was a heavy point earner. Now we seem to be lynching a completely random person. I'd like to see some explanation how she is more dangerous than any other Aes Sedai or how we would benefit from lynching her more than from lynching anyone else. I'd suggest looking at the people who didn't vote for Cosmicpanda on day 1. Most likely, the other two Whites are among them and one of them is a Head. I'm withholding my vote for now.

 

P.S. Min is not from my Ajah either. I'm just trying to make things more thoughtful and less random.

 

A few comments to Luddy:

 

The only benefit to lynching ANYONE is to get closer to endgame and to eliminate people not from your Ajah.  You know that...and you contradict yourself by wanting to go after somebody not on Pandy's lynch.  What makes THEM more dangerous?  If you are trying to eliminate the Whites, then you're doing the exact same thing I'm suggesting = lynching people not from your Ajah.  So what is the difference between me voting for Min, and you wanting to vote for somebody not on the Pandy lynch?

 

Also, the lynch forming on Min is not random.  If you look back, you’ll see several people voicing concerns or suspicions on Min.  She even states it herself!!  Look here:

 

 

Okay, other then me not being in your Ajah's can you all please tell me what makes you so suspicious of me?

If people are pointing fingers at you and you are innocent of course you would redirect their attention. It is not a sinister thing to do. It is a self-preservation thing. Not to mention I had very low points earned. I mean my Ajah is extremely low on the points scale you might say. Just really curious why you would go after a low points earner and leave those who are the true threat to us all unchecked. My thought is that I would be after those who earned a lot of points to keep their Ajah from obtaining too many objects of power.

 

But then Lily comes by and agrees with Ludmian.  See:

 

Ludmian, you make a lot of sense. Although that's still 10 people, if my Math is right. Any ideas on how to narrow it down? Okay, most of us can cross off the two people in our own Ajahs, but that's still 8. I may do a read-through of those pages, if I can find the time, and make a list. I'm glad to see a well-thought out idea presented, because I've had nothing.... lol.

 

Perfectly normal, until I remembered this post from a few days ago:

 

Like any of us would object to free points? Pete take your time if you need to. I would rather your points and all be accurate as possible personally. I know my Ajah would appreciate it too.

 

Am I the only one who finds this post interesting? Min must have a heavy point earner in her Ajah.

 

So you "have nothing"?  Even you have voiced some suspicion on Min.  You specifically did it a while ago, but then said you were "mistaken".  And then you think she has a heavy point earner.  And now you leave the idea completely to agree with Ludmian, who disagress with the lynch on Min.  Can you help me understand the change of heart?

 

Verb, you have a very good question. It deserves an equally good answer. This is my first game. I'm also playing a newbie game on the games board, which started a bit after this one. I wish I could answer you thoroughly, but I can't, because it has to do with the consequences of my aggressive behavior in the other game, which is still going. I have decided that thoughtful is better than aggressive, that's all. So, yes, I've had a change of heart. Which is not to say I won't vote for Min if things are going that way. Any lynch, as long as it's not my Ajah, is a good lynch. In other words, everyone's the enemy.

 

Trying to eliminate the White Ajah makes sense, because (hopefully) those points will go away if the Ajah does, and not be able to be used against the rest of us. And we already have one member gone. Trying to find the other one or two is a good idea. I still don't know how we can do that, but I helped out by making the list. Maybe someone else can logic out the next step.

 

What I meant by "I got nothin'" is that I have no other significant things that added up in my head like some of the things I said during the night. I meant I have nothing brilliant to say.

 

I hope that explained my position. If not, ask away. I'll do my best to answer.

 

 

 

 

[LilyElizabeth]

Maybe Min really is in Luddy's Ajah and he's just trying to save her by offering us another plan, and I fell for it. But it made sense to me to try to make those nasty White points go away. I don't know who is in what Ajah, other than my own, obviously, but Panda earned quite a few points. What if, say Mystica, is also in the White Ajah? She has quite a few, too. I'd like them gone before they can hurt us. We can't assume that Panda's teammates are low point earners, although I hope they are.

 

 

Before someone says "What about Lily's points?" again, let me just say, why in the world would I be offering these conclusions if they applied to me? If they did, I'd keep my mouth shut. I'm new, but not stupid. Also, I'm not earning so many anymore. I've been pretty quiet today. Not much to offer.

 

[Ludmian]

Like any of us would object to free points? Pete take your time if you need to. I would rather your points and all be accurate as possible personally. I know my Ajah would appreciate it too.

 

Am I the only one who finds this post interesting? Min must have a heavy point earner in her Ajah.

 

So, Lily is even suggesting that Min has a heavy point earner in her Ajah.  Aren't you suggesting the lynching of heavy point earners?  By taking out a member of that Ajah, we would be limiting the effectiveness of the heavy pointer earner.

 

Again, this is not random.  I've just outlined some reasons.  You were looking for reasons, and not just random.  Lynching heavy point earners is one way to go.  This is another way.  I'm trying to do exactly what you are suggesting.  ;)

 

Verb, no, seriously, I can't understand your logic. Heavy point earners are dangerous, so let's go after people who don't earn a lot of points, so that life for heavy point earners would suck a little more? Does not sound right to me. Well, ok, as the deadline is approaching, and I don't want a no lynch, and people insist on choosing candidates for lynching at random

 

[glow=red,2,300]Min[/glow]

 

Let's hope she turns out to be someone important.

[LilyElizabeth]

Well, that's 6 votes for Min. We need what? 12? 13? I still think it's better to try for someone who might be in the White Ajah, if anyone has a viable plan there, but I also agree that no lynch is not what we want. I'm going to get some sleep and see what happens while I'm sleeping. I'll vote tomorrow, unless there's a lynch during my night.

 

 

[Mystica]

how do we figure out who is in the White Ajah? Or any other Ajah for that matter? Short of being told so by the members, I don't think we'll ever be able to figure that out.

 

I'm still torn between the general vote and going a different road myself. It seems to me that there just isn't any solid ground to voting for anyone except them 'not being in my ajah', which as others have said goes for everone but 3 people (myself included).  :-\

[Verbal32]

Verb, no, seriously, I can't understand your logic. Heavy point earners are dangerous, so let's go after people who don't earn a lot of points, so that life for heavy point earners would suck a little more? Does not sound right to me. Well, ok, as the deadline is approaching, and I don't want a no lynch, and people insist on choosing candidates for lynching at random

 

[glow=red,2,300]Min[/glow]

 

Let's hope she turns out to be someone important.

 

Honestly, I didn't want to have to spell out the logic, but I will as you're not picking up on it and keep saying it's random.  If you are in an Ajah with a heavy point earner, and we've been discussing the lynching of the heavy point earners, guess who WON'T be named the Head of the Ajah?  Yes, the heavy point earners, as they are most likely lynch targets.  That is the logic behind my vote on Min.

 

So.....again, this is not a random vote.

[Verbal32]

Before someone says "What about Lily's points?" again, let me just say, why in the world would I be offering these conclusions if they applied to me? If they did, I'd keep my mouth shut. I'm new, but not stupid.

 

Just a quick comment on this.  Lily, have you heard of a WIFOM argument?  If not, then google it, as it will greatly help in learning the full range that mafia games have to offer.  It is from the Princess Bride movie, btw.

 

For those that might not know:  WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me

 

Taking WIFOM into consideration, one could say that you'd offer those conclusions because you knew somebody would, and therefore wanted to state it yourself as if you'd never do that....but maybe you would.  You just want us to think that you wouldn't, when it fact you just did.  But maybe....just maybe....you knew that we'd think that you would in order to make us think you wouldn't, so you did it anyway.

 

*head explodes*

 

See how much fun can be had with WIFOM?  ;D

[Charis alAslan]

Before someone says "What about Lily's points?" again, let me just say, why in the world would I be offering these conclusions if they applied to me? If they did, I'd keep my mouth shut. I'm new, but not stupid.

 

Just a quick comment on this.  Lily, have you heard of a WIFOM argument?  If not, then google it, as it will greatly help in learning the full range that mafia games have to offer.  It is from the Princess Bride movie, btw.

 

For those that might not know:  WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me

 

Taking WIFOM into consideration, one could say that you'd offer those conclusions because you knew somebody would, and therefore wanted to state it yourself as if you'd never do that....but maybe you would.  You just want us to think that you wouldn't, when it fact you just did.  But maybe....just maybe....you knew that we'd think that you would in order to make us think you wouldn't, so you did it anyway.

 

*head explodes*

 

See how much fun can be had with WIFOM?  ;D

 

I havent heard of WIFOM, but I've seen Princess Bride! One of my favorite films! I think what Verbal is saying is that you make a preemptive strike in order to get people off your case. I had a constant situation like that with my previous supervisor. When he knew he was in the wrong, he would always say sorry and try to reconcile ahead of time to cut you off from venting at him and really saying what needed to be said - mainly that he was untrustworthy.  ::)

 

That's neither here nor there, just an example. I think we all would tend to do that at some point, esp if we think "suspicion" is about to fall our way.

[Charis alAslan]

Also, I do agree with Mystica on the whole 'how can we know who's in the White Ajah?' thing. It's true. Out of the two handfuls of people who didnt vote for CP last time, not one of them could end up being White simply b/c his teammates could've jumped on the bandwagon wanting to cast off suspicion. That means you have to look at the ones who actually voted, not the ones who didnt, and honestly, it could be a total waste of energy. The fact is - our group is still too big to narrow things down very well at this point. Once Min is lynched, we'll know what Ajah she's in, and possibly if there is a cult and she was in it. Other than that, at this point we hardly have anything to go on. It sux that we have to lynch more randomly this time around, but that's how it seems this game must be played b/c there is no mafia.

[Ludmian]

Verb, no, seriously, I can't understand your logic. Heavy point earners are dangerous, so let's go after people who don't earn a lot of points, so that life for heavy point earners would suck a little more? Does not sound right to me. Well, ok, as the deadline is approaching, and I don't want a no lynch, and people insist on choosing candidates for lynching at random

 

[glow=red,2,300]Min[/glow]

 

Let's hope she turns out to be someone important.

 

Honestly, I didn't want to have to spell out the logic, but I will as you're not picking up on it and keep saying it's random.  If you are in an Ajah with a heavy point earner, and we've been discussing the lynching of the heavy point earners, guess who WON'T be named the Head of the Ajah?  Yes, the heavy point earners, as they are most likely lynch targets.  That is the logic behind my vote on Min.

 

So.....again, this is not a random vote.

 

All right, let's hope that if Min is lynched today we'll hear something other than "an Aes Sedai from X Ajah had to go to the Kin" from Dragon.

[Illiara]

This is what I get for starting school.  After reading back through the posts made during this day phase, I have a couple of things I would like to share.

 

1. What is the point of going after Min?  She isn't a heavy point earner and she's been offering solid logic behind her posts.  Those of you that are convinced that she is a threat to us have me baffled.

 

2.  Those of you pushing the Min bandwagon are high up on my list of people to watch.  I see no feasible reason for voting for her other than "oh, well, she looks suspicious so I'm voting for her."

 

With that, I'm going to place my vote on [glow=red,2,300]Verbal[/glow] for being the one to start the bandwagon and discouraging other paths to find a different person to lynch.

[Charis alAslan]

Those of you pushing the Min bandwagon are high up on my list of people to watch.  I see no feasible reason for voting for her other than "oh, well, she looks suspicious so I'm voting for her."

 

I think some of us already said that it's not about looking or being 'suspicious' or being a 'threat' b/c there's no mafia. It's about voting for someone outside your own Ajah. And it's about possibly voting for a low-scorer b/c they could be an Ajah Head. That makes sense to me and that's why I'm voting for Min in the end.

 

Illiara, if you'd started the Verbal bandwagon earlier, I would've had the same reasons for voting for him. It's really that simple at this point. Like I said earlier, we're still to big to do any proper lynching. It's really all about elimination and points accumulation right now.

[Illiara]

I know you've said that it's because she wasn't in your Ajah.  To me, that's pretty much the same kind of reasoning.

 

What I'm seeing is that the first person to place a vote is getting the person they voted for lynched without any discussion.  Even if it is an elimination stage of the game, as you put it Charis, what you all are doing is dangerous.  What happens when you or one of your Ajah mates is targeted next?  You're going to have a bandwagon lining up behind you simply because "you're not in my Ajah."

[Ludmian]

It's about voting for someone outside your own Ajah. And it's about possibly voting for a low-scorer b/c they could be an Ajah Head.

 

If we vote for low-scorers because of that we have an aweful lot of people to choose from. And to choose at random, by the way.

 

Last time when I voted for Cosmicpanda the bandwagon wasn't yet at its full speed. When I woke up in the morning, Panda was already lynched. Let's see if it happens this time. I'm pleased to see that someone has made an attempt to divert the Min bandwagon. As I've been trying to convince people to seek for other ways to choose a person for a lynch for a long time, I can't but support this attempt.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote Min,

Vote Verbal[/glow]

[LilyElizabeth]

With only 4 1/2 hours to go, it doesn't look like we're getting a lynch today. I'll check back before the deadline, and see if my vote is needed to wrap one up. I really don't have strong feelings one way or the other, except that I'd like to see a lynch, rather than no lynch, and, of course, I don't want them to be from my Ajah. *shrug*

 

Verb, I wish I was that good. But I'm too new to be able to pull something like that off. Maybe someday once I've gotten a bit more experience. Nice try to divert attention my way, though. I don't think it worked.

[a pale tanned lover]

Well looks like we won't have a lynch, maybe we would have if we went for a high scoring person.

 

I don't understand why people would want to try and target the White Ajah, I see it as being more important to reduce the other Ajahs by at least one person as quick as possible to stop them building up points faster so targeting one Ajah wouldn't really help at this stage, until there is fewer players.

[Illiara]

I think that you may be right on that one, Pale.  That's what I would have done had I been able to be around more.

 

Seeing as we don't know who else is in the White Ajah, it doesn't make any sense to go after them.  I think that lynching the high point scorers makes the most sense at the moment so they can't keep earning high amounts of points.

 

At least the tiles here in the Red quarters aren't going to be red with blood tonight.

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

As night began to approach, nothing stirred in the ajah quarters. One aes sedai, Talya sedai, was walking along the red corridiors and she happened to come across two boxes. What would they be? She did not know, yet she only had time to grab one.

 

Night 2 will end at 9 pm Wednesday

 

Day 2 points (People you really stepped it up, I think you are getting the swing of this.  8) )

 

Mystica - 19

Min - 6

Talya - 16 (?)

Tynaal - 1

Pale - 9

Verbal - 29

Torrie - 17

Charis - 19

Crystal - 8

Lily - 23

Illiara - 13

Mcs - 2

Jaydena - 2

Ludmian - 13

Elgee - 8