I hate Rand al thor

[Mr Ares]

This fool is acting too high and mighty for his own good. He needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

 

My ideal scenario is Rand is off as usual doing his thing of acting like Big Boss.  Suddenly he meets demnadred face to face. Rand says i defeated so many forsaken. I am going to take you out too. He disregards his backup who are by the way just around the corner. A big battle ensues. rand realises demandred is a whole different ball game. Rand is in the end stilled. Demandred is going to adminster the killing blow. Rand is saved just in the nick of time by logain and his followers. demandred escapes.

 

 

Rand is dazed. He has been taught a lesson. His ego is crushed. He knows he's Demandred's bitch from now on. slowly he cries back to nynaeve and asks her to restore him fully. Nynaeve does so. Not before laughing at rand and telling him to start acting wisely.

The situation you outline is awful. How high and mighty should he be acting?

 

well for starters, i would not think of using my friends as he does everytime he sees perrin.

Then you would lose.

if i were perrin i would bury that axe in rand al thor's head and split his aiel face for good.

Then you would lose.

 

i would be like artur hawking. fair and noble.

Hawkwing would have used people as well.

i would be a cool dragon reborn. who rallies people by convinction, strength and leadership rather than frightening people to death.

Why should these people love you? There are a lot of people in positions of power who have lost that power on account of you. It is better to be feared than loved. Let them hate, so long as they fear.

 

and when i die they would glorify me.

No, they wouldn't.

 

Belal should finished this clown and the dark one take his soul

Then the world gets destroyed, because you can't put up with a saviour who has a bit of a big head. He's hardly the worst epic fantasy has to offer.

 

Trouble is i don't know who will give him the thrashing he deserves.

Cadsuane?

[Durinax]

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i would be like artur hawking. fair and noble.

Hawkwing would have used people as well.

 

Somewhere in the books it says that Hawkwing was noble with the commoners, but brutal with the nobles

[draconian]

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i would be like artur hawking. fair and noble.

Hawkwing would have used people as well.

 

Somewhere in the books it says that Hawkwing was noble with the commoners, but brutal with the nobles

he was also ishaemal's puppet

[sheikh chilli]

ares,

 

you made a lot of good points but i still don't agree with many of stuff rand does. i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

 

rand is just too much. The way he uses his friends especially perrin has just made me dislike him so much. Honestly rand al thor might be the first character who is central to a story whom i despise so much. I just can't warm to him anymore. It's quite a fall from book 1,2,3 and 4. At this point i would feel no remorse, no sadness if he gets destroyed at tarmon gaiden. Fat chance of that happening though.

 

 

durinax,

 

can you blame arthur hawking for being ishy's puppet. the guy was a forsaken. the most powerful of them all. Only LTT is closer to him in power. Artur hawking was an awesome leader. Rand will never be as good as him.

[killdawabbit]

ares,

 

you made a lot of good points but i still don't agree with many of stuff rand does. i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

 

rand is just too much. The way he uses his friends especially perrin has just made me dislike him so much. Honestly rand al thor might be the first character who is central to a story whom i despise so much. I just can't warm to him anymore. It's quite a fall from book 1,2,3 and 4. At this point i would feel no remorse, no sadness if he gets destroyed at tarmon gaiden. Fat chance of that happening though.

 

OK, let me get this straight.

 

-You have the ultimate responsibility for saving the world from what amounts to the most evil and sadistic force there is, through no fault or desire of your own. In fact, it is considered by many to be your job to die horribly at the appropriate time to do it.

-You are twice wounded, in ways that will never heal, and are constantly in severe pain.

-You have to organize all the free peoples of the world in order to mount a defense, and have limited time to do it.

-The vast majority of people hate and fear you simply because of who you are.

-Not only do you have to deal with the machinations of you enemies, but those who you are trying to save constantly hinder you with their petty squabbles and ambitions in the face of armageddon. Further, many factions seek to use you in order to further their plans. Even the majority of your most loyal allies still have their own agendas.

-You have a nutcase in your head that sometimes tries to take you over.

-You are starting off as a young kid with zero experience in any of this.

 

I think I covered most of it, though I'm sure some could add more.

 

I'm going to go with "99% of people would simply break down under the immense stress". All in all, Rand has done a fairly remarkable job given the situation.

 

[draconian]

ares,

 

you made a lot of good points but i still don't agree with many of stuff rand does. i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

 

 

rand leads with courage example any battle vs the forsaken

most ppl go weak in the knees when the forsaken r discussed

rand passes fair laws and scares nobles when they act asgainst his wishes

rand constancely discusses with himself how he hates that he cant afford to do the right thing and must do what necessary

example would be asmodean or a truce with seanchan

i could agree if the so called aes sedai were not completely blind except for maybe a very few and were doing there job of rallying the nations behind him

 

hawkwing was a ta'veren and i doubt compulsion works well vs them and it does not with any1 with a strong sense of self or the forsaken would of used it on mat and perrin

i cant be sure but i think ishamael guided hawkwing the old fashioned way

hate for aes sedai was and is strong and the WT slighted hawkwing when he helped them

[Cillian]

you made a lot of good points but i still don't agree with many of stuff rand does. i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

 

Everything that killdawabbit and draconian said, plus I'll just emphasize that Rand just doesn't have the time it would take to change the near 3,000 year old, widely held perception of what the Dragon Reborn is.

Even so he is very fair to the common folk and very courageous to boot.

 

rand is just too much. The way he uses his friends especially perrin has just made me dislike him so much.

 

It's necessary to save the world, his friends are in very powerful positions.

[Arath Faringal]

i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

 

Generally speaking, that might be true.  However, when you're the reincarnation of a man remembered and reviled for causing the breaking of the world, and slaughtering all of his loved ones, that stacks the odds against you.

 

For 3000 years, men have been popping up claiming to be you, and causing untold amounts of death and destruction.  You've been used as a story to frighten small children into obedience, right along with the Forsaken and the Dark One himself.  And the prophecies all state that you're going to break the world AGAIN.

 

You have limited time to unite the world behind you, since the seals are already breaking by the time you figure out that you're able to channel, let alone who you really are.  At every step of your journey, you face massive opposition, even from the people you are destined to save.

 

When the entire world hates you since before you were born, do you really think you have time to gain their trust and love before Tarmon Gaidon?  Especially with Tar Valon, the Whitecloaks, and the Seanchan all against you, and your most vocal supporter is the Prophet, a psychopath who sanctions extreme violence against all of those 'too slow' in their support of you.  Plus other packs of bandits independant of the Prophet roam the countryside, committing whatever atrocities they want in your name.

 

With the odds stacked that badly against you, fairness and good ideals won't get you very far, and you don't have time to impress people with courage.  The only reason the Tairen nobles obeyed Rand at all was because he could, and would, kill them for disobedience.  And even then it was hit and miss.

 

I can just imagine how well things would go convincing Elaida to your side with courage and good ideals.

[sketching sedai]

I used to be a fan of perrin. Until he turned out to be dumber than a sack of potatoes. He has been pussified by faile. Lost alot of man cred. what a wuss

I couldn’t help but laugh, truthfully though I think the P man’s awesome. Yeah he’s kind of whipped, but I do recall a certain someone getting a good seeing to in the ways... 

[Discomandavis]

I couldn’t help but laugh, truthfully though I think the P man’s awesome. Yeah he’s kind of whipped, but I do recall a certain someone getting a good seeing to in the ways... 

someone wouldn't be refering to failes spanking in the ways. That part makes me lol evertime. I love Perrin, he is perfectly capable and has stood up to Rand on numerous occasions. Soooo stfu. If anyone gets pushed around it's mat, he's always like "I should bail, but I am not going to for un explainable reasons"

[Mystica]

wait, back up a bit...... 10 women is an army? :o

 

 

Are we good or what? *preens*

[funsize]

Well, to a man you certainly are ;D

 

I also find it funny that you cream yourself over Hawkwing, when he was an irrational ass who thought Aes Sedai are the devil incarnate (say what you want about Ishamael, but only if you concede Rand is under mitigating pressure - you can't have it both ways), as well as "an unpleasant person", according to Mat's memories - and you know those are true.

 

Seriously, you're in love with an ideal. I think you should get over yourself.

[fikkie77]

I don't hate Rand, but each new book I'm having a harder time identifying myself with him, because of his madness, his bad temper, his inability to hurt women or to chose between women.

 

But I think that's the strength of WoT: even though you're not able to identify with a major character, there are always others.

[a pale tanned lover]

I don't hate Rand, but each new book I'm having a harder time identifying myself with him, because of his madness, his bad temper, his inability to hurt women or to chose between women.

 

But I think that's the strength of WoT: even though you're not able to identify with a major character, there are always others.

 

That doesn't sound right :D

[OptimusPrime]

I don't hate Rand, but each new book I'm having a harder time identifying myself with him, because of his madness, his bad temper, his inability to hurt women or to chose between women.

 

But I think that's the strength of WoT: even though you're not able to identify with a major character, there are always others.

That doesn't sound right :D

 

Too god damn right it doesnt! My keyboard has coffee under the keys now because of that! Rands inability to hurt women is probably the only thing he has in common with any of the male readers. Why are people so surprised by it? It is both very human and very male, and its the last shred of humanity he can feel, so he grabs it and holds on for dear life.

 

Dear god fikkie I laughed a lot when I saw that post.

[Mr Ares]

i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

Sometimes, that is not an option. You either run roughshod over them or they do over you.

 

rand is just too much. The way he uses his friends especially perrin has just made me dislike him so much. Honestly rand al thor might be the first character who is central to a story whom i despise so much.

Try reading Prince of Nothing. You'll feel much better about Rand once you've met Kelhuss.

[fikkie77]

I don't hate Rand, but each new book I'm having a harder time identifying myself with him, because of his madness, his bad temper, his inability to hurt women or to chose between women.

 

But I think that's the strength of WoT: even though you're not able to identify with a major character, there are always others.

 

That doesn't sound right :D

:D

You probably know what I mean. He has that in a softy kind of way: he kills male Forsaken asif he's having breakfast, but he can't kill women who'd kill him any time.

[sheikh chilli]

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means? Oh i am rand al thor. The saviour of the world. You better do as i say or i will blow your brains out. Oh i do this to protect the world you live in. Damn.

 

I would not even have a problem with rand roughshodding over dumb ass people like weiramon for example. But rand al thor has passed a zone which frankly turns him to a total unfeeling tool.

 

 

For example. loial the ogier was on of his closest friends. You see their friendship in book 2. Go to LOC. He treats his own friend like a piece of meat. Props to perrin for standing up to the fool who was using his friend like that. There is no excuse for that. Treating friends like that. Then you go to knife of dreams he cant even find even the slightest bit of happiness for the ogier's marriage.

Again book 5 moiraine's death. He had to force himself to mourn her death. Struck me as pitiful and fake. That after the whole hilarious BS about not killing lanfear because she was a woman. So it's not just nobles he treats like shit but his own companions too. Strikes me as completely pathetic. If he's the sort of person who was instructed to save the world then i will gladly welcome the great lord of the dark taking over.

 

 

It's says smething when you can't even warm to the book's central character. Hell i like padan fain more than al thor now. At least there's abit of consistency with fain.

[sheikh chilli]

Well, to a man you certainly are ;D

 

I also find it funny that you cream yourself over Hawkwing, when he was an irrational ass who thought Aes Sedai are the devil incarnate (say what you want about Ishamael, but only if you concede Rand is under mitigating pressure - you can't have it both ways), as well as "an unpleasant person", according to Mat's memories - and you know those are true.

 

Seriously, you're in love with an ideal. I think you should get over yourself.

 

hawking was awesome. say what you want but he's 10 times the leader rand al thor will ever be. So what if he hated aes sedai. he was manipulated by ishy. artur could not channel and ishy was the dark one's general. cant blame him for that.

 

rand al thor acts like total unfeeling tool and he does not have the excuse of someone manipulating him

[killdawabbit]

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means? Oh i am rand al thor. The saviour of the world. You better do as i say or i will blow your brains out. Oh i do this to protect the world you live in. Damn.

 

I would not even have a problem with rand roughshodding over dumb ass people like weiramon for example. But rand al thor has passed a zone which frankly turns him to a total unfeeling tool.

 

 

No. People are sayig he is a product of his circumstances. Reading comprehension is a good thing. If you think about general human nature then you can begin to understand why he is like he is. Like I said earlier, the vast majority of people would simply break under the immense amount of stress.

 

[Hybrid]

You guys think the ends justify the means?

Only if the ends justify my means.  Otherwise they don't.

[Arath Faringal]

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means?

 

Lets see ... save the world but be reviled as one of the biggest jerks the world has ever known, or let the world burn, and let everyone you've buried your feelings for suffer for your incompetance ...

 

I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and say the whole 'saving the world' path is the better one.

 

Wanting the supreme evil being to win just because you don't like the hero is just childish.  You're offered the choice between an icecream cone and a kick in the groin, and you take the kick because the cone doesn't have sprinkles.

[sheikh chilli]

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means?

 

Lets see ... save the world but be reviled as one of the biggest jerks the world has ever known, or let the world burn, and let everyone you've buried your feelings for suffer for your incompetance ...

 

I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and say the whole 'saving the world' path is the better one.

 

Wanting the supreme evil being to win just because you don't like the hero is just childish.  You're offered the choice between an icecream cone and a kick in the groin, and you take the kick because the cone doesn't have sprinkles.

 

that kind of a person is not a saviour. he's a weakling with a pathetic character. So people hate and despise you. Perhaps you should try and set a good example and change people's opinions of you. Just like how egwene seems to be doing in the tower.

 

Oh by the way perrin, and the ogier are some of his closest friends and yet to rand they are nothing but pieces of meat. rand is no saviour. At least to me. He can't even mourn for moraine without forcing himself to do so. what a wuss!

[Hybrid]

that kind of a person is not a saviour.  he's a weakling with a pathetic character.

He's still the Dragon Reborn.  He's still the saviour of the world.  And, as multiple people have pointed out over and over and over again, he has no time and no room to enact change slowly.  He is surrounded by many of the worst examples of human nature in the Tairens, the Andorans, the Cairhienin.  His only options are to ensure that they listen to him or to eliminate the threat they represent.  His only chance rests in seeing the world through TG.  Survival first, healing later.

 

So people hate and despise you. Perhaps you should try and set a good example and change people's opinions of you. Just like how egwene seems to be doing in the tower.

There are a couple of differences between Rand's situation and Egwene's situation.  Egwene is not the savior of the world.  All she is right now is a prisoner.  She has no other options and not as much rides on her success.  Besides, when she was in power, she acted very similarly to Rand.  In fact, it's one of the major reasons people dislike Egwene's character.  At least Rand has the excuse of being insane and almost universally disliked for no reason.

[Phariah]

oh come on

are u telling me u are the one to save mankind, you are trying to quell anarchy and nobles that don't care about the world only what they can get their grubby paws on, u have a past life talking to u, u have to deal with the taint on the source, you basically know u have to die to save these non-caring fools

oh and for character: he is building schools for the future, trying to feed the masses ( which the nobles have no care for ), trying to end men killing men... ya this is a petty thing he does ya he is so mean and nasty he wants to feed peasants / poor , omg thats so wrong

you see the big picture over all and have to deal with it

now u tell me its bad form to have friends that you trust do important tasks to aid you? so what they spend one less day in an Inn or they have to leave after they just arrive? lol that is rich

im just glad we don't have you leading the forces of light to save us

 

hey Perrin hey Loial whats up let have some cookies and milk while we sit here bsing around, dont worry that the shadow is building up or we need to organize, don't worry that we will have trollocs streaming forth from every way gate into the heartlands , don't worry that the shadow is bad enough but i have these nobles that would kill me before TG just for some more power... nah have a chocolate chip one its good