Rand kneeling before the crystal throne...

[Mashiara Sedai]

What if when Rand meets Tuon for the first time, she tells him that Mat is her husband.  Rand, out of shock, falls to the ground, kneeling, but not necessarily out of submission or surrender.

 

Just the thought of what Rand will do when he finds out that news makes me laugh hysterically.

 

 

~Mashiara

[Perrin 187]

I would be very dissappoint if Rand kneels to anybody especially Tuon,(whom hasn't done anything close to deserve such a thing). Even if he does so unintentionally, he is the Dragon Reborn he should kneel to no one.

[MatsLuck]

I think the interesting question is whether it means the literal throne or just Toun as Empress. I like Toun and wouldn't care if he had to kneel to her, it wouldn't kill him. In the beginning, with the scheming, greedy nobles and the ridiculously arrogant Aes Sedai,  I was glad to have him stand up as DR and put them in their place. But, he is a little over the top now I think. A little humility wouldn't hurt him. Even still, I think he will kneel to her out of simple necessity. He needs the Seanchan.

[Solarian]

Wasn't that section of the Prophecies falsified by Ishamael?

[Safia al-Maaz]

I believe so, but by doing that he made it necessary that Rand kneel because all the Seanchan think he must.  So either way he's screwed.

[Aldanath]

I guess that because it was falsified it no longer becomes necessary, which for me means that he'll hopefully find a way around it.

[Mandragoran]

I would be very dissappoint if Rand kneels to anybody especially Tuon,(whom hasn't done anything close to deserve such a thing). Even if he does so unintentionally, he is the Dragon Reborn he should kneel to no one.

He'd have a hard time convincing the other nations to follow him if he did and he can't kneel to every ruler either. Not as the Dragon Reborn. They must all follow him or none will.

 

If he is in disguise and approaches Tuon as a messenger or a wandering beggar then he can show the courtesy required. If Tuon later realizes who he was but has no way to prove it, she'll still have to admit the prophecy fulfilled.

 

 

[Builder]

I thought about this and I think it relates to the fact that Rand will learn to cry again. However because this part of the Prophecy is falsified I think he'll just find a way around it, but other than that I could only see it as a part of him learning to be human again.

[Majsju]

Thing is, the way Rand have positioned himself, he either gets his truce with Seanchan, or he will destroy them completely. Tuon is in no position to make any demands about him kneeling.

 

Too bad we know Tuon will realise this, and there will be a truce, I would much have prefered to see the Seanchan completely destroyed.

[Master Norry]

O yeah? Why? I like them...

[Mandragoran]

While I like Tuon somewhat, the way Seanchan treat damane and dacovale is despicable. Not just slavery but the complete breaking of a human being.

 

 

[lordofsoup]

rand could just tale the male hale of the Chroedan Cal and just kill them all without an army if they dont make a truce, it would save his troops for TG

[Builder]

I see so many similarities between the Seanchan and the ancient Chinese that I envision the Seanchan as Chinese-looking people.

[MatsLuck]

Thing is, the way Rand have positioned himself, he either gets his truce with Seanchan, or he will destroy them completely. Tuon is in no position to make any demands about him kneeling.

 

Too bad we know Tuon will realise this, and there will be a truce, I would much have prefered to see the Seanchan completely destroyed.

I'd say that's EXACTLY why she is in position to demand it. If she says kneel or no truce what's he going to do? Destroy a well organized military filled with experienced weapon-channelers while mankind is facing its most desperate fight in an age? Bad idea IMO. No, if that's the way it goes down, and he refuses, I kinda see Cadsuane taking him by the ear and saying don't be foolish, boy. Also, I think people read too much into this. Whether or not it is a legit prophecy (and I'm not convinced it is) I see it as a symbolic gesture, a show of respect for a nation's ruler. He's not kneeling the way Alliandre did to swear fealty to Perrin. He has done things like this in the past. Remember his first entrance into Cold Rocks? He humbled himself to show respect for Dorhinda (SP?) and the Aiel were much impressed by this. Moiraine (and Cadsuane I believe) advised him to be respectful to rulers. If say, Elayne were to tell him that the Andorans would not follow without some similar gesture, does anyone think he wouldn't kneel before the Lion Throne? I see it as nothing more than an acknowledgment of another ruler, not an act of fealty. I think many just don't like it because the Seanchan are unpopular. I doubt people would care as much if he was kneeling to Elayne.

[Perrin 187]

I'd be dissappointed if he kneelt to anybody, especially Elayne. If he wanted to on his own he could level a major city these people need to understand its either you help Rand and fight the shadow or you'll be killed by the shadow. He is the creator's answer to the shadow he kneels to no one. If anything Tuon should kneel to him. 

[MatsLuck]

I agree that they SHOULD. But in the real world and RJ's we know that people often don't do what they should. Just the way it is.

[Mr Ares]

Rand will not kneel.

[Dunedain Fal]

I think I figured out a way how Rand can kneel to the Crystal throne without kneeling to anyone.  At present, no one is sitting on the Crystal Throne.  To fulfill the Seanchan prophecy, he just Travels to Seandar, the capital of Seanchan, to the Imperial Court and simply kneels before the empty Crystal Throne.  Seanchan's version only says that he has to bow before the Crystal Throne, never mentioning that it may be empty or not.

 

He bows before the Crystal Throne and viola! Then he captures the Crystal Throne and makes use of it and use it to compel the Daughter of the Nine Moons or the Court of the Nine Moons to serve him.  Neat, no?

[Thor]

While I like Tuon somewhat, the way Seanchan treat damane and dacovale is despicable. Not just slavery but the complete breaking of a human being.

 

 

 

don't know, but then you can argue that once you break the human being, it is no longer a human being and hence it is not slavery anymore.

 

but there's nothing wrong with seanchan anyways, they are a civilisation just like any other.  if you don't like them, you are welcome to try destroying them (like some of you suggested).  but i doubt any force of the light in randland can tbh.

[Mandragoran]

 

don't know, but then you can argue that once you break the human being, it is no longer a human being and hence it is not slavery anymore.

Tell that to Amathera, Alivia, etc.

 

I'd say that's EXACTLY why she is in position to demand it. If she says kneel or no truce what's he going to do? Destroy a well organized military filled with experienced weapon-channelers while mankind is facing its most desperate fight in an age? Bad idea IMO. No, if that's the way it goes down, and he refuses, I kinda see Cadsuane taking him by the ear and saying don't be foolish, boy.

When Rand asked Cadsuane's advice, she told him a truce with the Seanchan would be unpopular in the lands under the Empire's control. And in her opinion, other rulers would question whether he'd cede more lands to the Seanchan once he allowed them to keep the lands they took.

 

Bottom line is, everyone needs him more than he needs them. He's the one who has to die for their sake. I don't mind him kneeling to Elayne, there will be little loss of face kneeling to the woman bearing your children. Kneeling to Egwene is another matter, especially after everything the Tower put him through. The Seanchan wouldn't like that, although not as much as she'd hate to see Rand kneeling to them. And the Asha'man would have objections in both cases.

 

 

[MatsLuck]

When Rand asked Cadsuane's advice, she told him a truce with the Seanchan would be unpopular in the lands under the Empire's control. And in her opinion, other rulers would question whether he'd cede more lands to the Seanchan once he allowed them to keep the lands they took.

 

Bottom line is, everyone needs him more than he needs them. He's the one who has to die for their sake. I don't mind him kneeling to Elayne, there will be little loss of face kneeling to the woman bearing your children. Kneeling to Egwene is another matter, especially after everything the Tower put him through. The Seanchan wouldn't like that, although not as much as she'd hate to see Rand kneeling to them. And the Asha'man would have objections in both cases.

Yes, that's what she told him, that doesn't mean it won't happen. My point is, if he wants it (a truce) and turns it down because he's too proud to acknowledge her, that would be silly. He's not a god, he doesn't need to be worshiped the way Masema does. And no, he needs the nations too. They both need each other. Neither can win on their own. Which is why a little diplomacy on his part wouldn't hurt him. Loss of face? Time to worry about that is over. With TG on the horizon it's not time to have a pissing contest. I don't care whether he kneels or not, but he does need a truce, and to turn one down because he can't humble himself for two seconds is just stupid. The prophecy is most likely false I think, but he needs peace with them one way or another.

[Mandragoran]

Yes, that's what she told him, that doesn't mean it won't happen. My point is, if he wants it (a truce) and turns it down because he's too proud to acknowledge her, that would be silly. He's not a god, he doesn't need to be worshiped the way Masema does.

A truce doesn't mean she kneels to him either. Expecting that would be pride. He wants a truce on equal terms because kneeling would make him vulnerable.

 

 

[MatsLuck]

They could kneel to each other ;) He to the Empress, she to the Dragon Reborn. I expect it will be something along those lines, at least practically speaking. As far as physically kneeling who knows?

[Mandragoran]

They'll have to compromise on the Prophecies. The ones Rand's going by indicate that he will bind the nine moons to him, the means to which he intends to leave up to her.

 

It would kind of suck if it meant leashing Tuon since she is technically a suldam and capable of learning how to channel. Yet what if that is the only way to make the Seanchan go soft on their damane policies...

 

 

[MatsLuck]

Yea I heard a theory on an old podcast that after TG blows over perhaps the damane will still be property but more honored, like Sho'jin (?) because having the "big secret" come out would mess up their whole society...could be a possibility. Then again, massive and sudden change seems to be a theme of the series a la the Aiel so who knows.

 

Crazy theory- bind=bond...lol But I think Rand has enough. As much as the suldam/damane thing is wrong, I doubt its going to change pre-TG, so what I would like to see is Toun, preferably out of nowhere, show up damane on each arm (double fistin) and tear it up. Maybe saving Mats life.