Aiel post Last Battle

[Copperfield]

What will happen to the Aiel? Will they return to the waste and live in Rhuidean? If so, will the have issues with the Shaido?

[Lord Nik]

I think the shaido are toast. This is all speculation but the Aeil will probably  have Rand leading them after TG. Or at least Rand will chill with them. If he survives.

[Lord Nik]

There is no reason to fight the Shaido now.  Couladin and Sevanna are dead.  The rest just want to go home and milk their gara in peace.

 

I just think that the shaido arent in the remnant of a remnant that will be saved. I wonder if trollocs will go into the blight and wreak some havoc

[Shard]

I think they are going to focus on Randland first since that is the choosen battleground it seems. Seachan and Shara are in ruins and there are only a skeleton of Aiel left in the waste. Why go after the small potatos when the main game is in Randland?

[Dark Justice]

when last battle comes, there is absolutely no need for the shadow to pour into the aiel waste. There is no one there to threat them at all. why spread your forses out to a non important area?  I can not see the Shaido having any place in TG.

[Charlz Guybon]

My guess is that the vast majority die.

 

The Shaido who are returning to the Three-Fold Land will likely be the majority for some time to come.  The Aiel of the other clans who do survive Tarmon Gai'don may well stay in the Wetlands, perhaps establishing a new nation in one of the empty areas, or helping to repopulate the Borderlands.  But any answer here is just speculation ... we don't really know.

The Shaido are going to get run over by a Trolloc army on the way back to the Waste and be totally annihilated as the Prophecy of Rhuidean foretold.

[Dark Justice]

 

The Shaido are going to get run over by a Trolloc army on the way back to the Waste and be totally annihilated as the Prophecy of Rhuidean foretold.

 

Where does this trolloc army hang out?

 

[Kaznen]

The original profecy of Rhudiean said that any septs not taking in the challenge will die out, their names forgoken, and their herds will belong to other septs.

 

All the septs of the Shaido clan have turned their backs on the traditions of Rhudeian.  So they most likely will waste away like the old septs did.

[Charlz Guybon]

The original profecy of Rhudiean said that any septs not taking in the challenge will die out, their names forgoken, and their herds will belong to other septs.

 

What Sealdre said to Mandein was:

 

"The chiefs who do not come, and those who do not agree ... their septs will die, Mandein.  Within three generations they will be dust, and their holds and cattle belong to other septs.  Their names will be lost."

 

TSR ch 25

 

Since more than three generations have passed since that time, her warning does not apply to the Shaido.  It only applied to those septs who originally refused to send their leaders to Rhuidean.  The Shaido agreed, and did so faithfully for centuries.

Why would they not be on the clock again and fade within 3 generations of breaking faith?

[fadge100]

i think that the "remenant of a remenant" will be the shaido aiel, and that of the rest, most will survive and turn to the Way of the Leaf, so they wont be considered Aiel anymore fulfilling the prophecy to it's exactness.

 

 

I know it sounds kinda cheesy, but thats my thoughts on it.

[DemandredFO]

I hope the Aiel don't return to the Way of the leaf, I have only concept for their suicidal pacifism.

[Muad Cheade]

I think you mean contempt, and pacifism takes great courage. We have a propensity for violence and retaliation. It's in our nature. The Tua'than and the Jenn Aiel should be respected because it's not easy to simply turn the other cheek.

 

I don't think the Aiel will return to the Way of the Leaf. If that were so, more would be taken by the bleakness. I also don't think the remnant of aremnant will only be the Shaido or the efforts of Sorilea, Amys, Bair and others are worthless. I simply think they will take heavy casualties in war.Plus, a remnant of a remnant of hundreds of thousands will still number in the tens of thousands.

[Kaznen]

Why would they not be on the clock again and fade within 3 generations of breaking faith?

 

Because we are way more than three generations past that prediction.  Because the covenant of Rhuidean is no longer in force, since the city is open to everyone.

 

Sealdre's Dream was regarding septs that existed at that time.  It was not a prophecy for the future.  Those who made the covenant at that time survived.  Those who did not, did not.  But all that is over and done, and long past.

If that was the case then why do the Aiel still send men to Rhudien to test them to be clan chiefs.  At some point over the next 2500+ years there would have been an Aielman how was a charismatic leader who would have gotten himself declared chief of his clan by popular vote.  But the WO still made men go see their pasts.

 

I got the feeling that the AS who made the tests set up a kind of curse on the Aiel should they break faith again.

[water_seeker]

I got the feeling that the AS who made the tests set up a kind of curse on the Aiel should they break faith again.

 

Curses now?  And where does the idea of One Power curses come from?

[Mr Ares]

I think you mean contempt, and pacifism takes great courage. We have a propensity for violence and retaliation. It's in our nature. The Tua'than and the Jenn Aiel should be respected because it's not easy to simply turn the other cheek.

It is not always necessary or desirable, either. They should not be respected for their absolutist stance. Sometimes you have to fight.

[Elgee]

I think you mean contempt, and pacifism takes great courage. We have a propensity for violence and retaliation. It's in our nature. The Tua'than and the Jenn Aiel should be respected because it's not easy to simply turn the other cheek.

 

It is not always necessary or desirable, either. They should not be respected for their absolutist stance. Sometimes you have to fight.

 

I agree with Mr Ares. Just because something is very difficult to do, does not make it a good idea to do it. What if they succeeded in turning the whole world "Tinker"? The Dark One would enjoy that  ::)

Think of all the little children being tortured and eaten by Trollocs, because no one would defend them.

[ROB_88]

Why would they not be on the clock again and fade within 3 generations of breaking faith?

 

Because we are way more than three generations past that prediction.  Because the covenant of Rhuidean is no longer in force, since the city is open to everyone.

 

Sealdre's Dream was regarding septs that existed at that time.  It was not a prophecy for the future.  Those who made the covenant at that time survived.  Those who did not, did not.  But all that is over and done, and long past.

If that was the case then why do the Aiel still send men to Rhudien to test them to be clan chiefs.  At some point over the next 2500+ years there would have been an Aielman how was a charismatic leader who would have gotten himself declared chief of his clan by popular vote.  But the WO still made men go see their pasts.

 

I got the feeling that the AS who made the tests set up a kind of curse on the Aiel should they break faith again.

 

they go to Rhuidean because it's traditiion, and that's how you cualify to be clan chief. not because they believe they will be viped out if they do not. the death of all "non-believers" was just a one time thing

[luftstark]

I do believe that the majority of the "Rand Aiel" will die. The Shaido will return to the Waste and try to pick up their lives as before, but they will face a new waste, where there is a city with a LAKE... it changes everything... The Shaido will then die fighting for it or join with the others around it. Those who were left at the waste (all the sept families that did not went with Rand army - IIRC just the shaido took the ppl)  will survive, but their difference will diminish with time and they may became a nation in the 4th age.

 

That's my opinion... the remnant of a remnant prob refers to those Aiel... the hundred thousand spears with rand are as good as dead ^^

[zanotam]

Remnant of a remnant.

 

Well to start with you had the aiel pre-breaking. A bunch of them died as the breaking started however and so those who survived COULD be a remnant. Then you had the original breakup when the Aiel split into the Aiel and Tinkers. Then the Aiel split into the Aiel and Jenn Aiel. The Jenn Aiel and many of the Aiel did out until the current point.

 

                                         Da'Shain Aiel

                                   Tinkers           Aiel

                                   Tinkers        Jenn   Aiel

                                   Tinkers                    Remaining Aiel

                                   Tinkers               Rand Aiel        Shaido Aiel

 

The Tinkers are the remnant of the Aiel that still follow the way of the leaf, a remnant of a remnant. The Shaido Aiel are what remains of the Aiel that existed from post-breaking to well, TSR. The Rand Aiel are the remannt of the remnant that remembered they had to follow Aes Sedai. It really depends on what the original remnant is referring to, is it referring to the Aiel that remained alive after the breaking, the Aiel that stuck to the way of the leaf, the Aiel that continued to remember they need to serve Aes Sedai, the Aiel that refused their past?

 

 

"The chiefs who do not come, and those who do not agree ... their septs will die, Mandein.  Within three generations they will be dust, and their holds and cattle belong to other septs.  Their names will be lost."

 

The chiefs who do not come, AND those who do not agree ... their septs will die. (note the beginning of a new sentence) Within three generations they will be dust.....

 

It says the chiefs who do not come, in addition to those who do not agree. Did the Shaido chief (or leader at all) go to Rhuidean? Nope. Then it says those who do not go will die within three generation, it doesn't say that the curse ends after three generations.

[LordoftheMorning]

They did send a leader. I am not close to a book, but didn't Couladin's brother go?

[zanotam]

I don't actually agree with that interpretation, I just offered it to point out that the wording in these things is commonly tricky. I personally always figured the remnant of the remnant meant the tinkers. The original remnant being those who followed the way of the leaf, and they being a miniscule remnant of the followers of the way of the leaf. I don't know, I just figured the Aiel would all die, well not ALL die necessarily, but not enough of them would survive to be considered a people. (I do believe Aviendha is supposed to survive along with her children.)

[CUBAREY]

Another very real possibility is that they will survive, but cease to be considered Aiel, as they have not remained "Dedicated" to either the oldest covenant (the Way of the Leaf) or the new covenant (to follow Rand al'Thor).  For many of them, it might be seen as the utter failure of ji'e'toh as a way of life, and although they are returning to the Three-Fold land, it will no longer be as Aiel.

 

Another possibility is that the remnant of a remnant actually refers to the Shaido who are returning to the Three Fold Land after Their defeat at the hands of Perrin and the Seanchen. The logic to this is that most of the Ail with Rand are already abandoning their old ways (the great majority of men wear a headband that identifies them as the property of the Dragon the Gai-shin seem to be refusing to take off the white after a year of servitude. It would not be surprising that the surviving Ail would metamorphasize into something new after the Last Battle. Moreover, to pick up on RAW'S analogy the returning Ail would see themselves as the surviving Ail (or Jews) who keep to the Three Fold Land and follow the Age old customs (keep the Jewish Covenant with God).

[zanotam]

Moreover, to pick up on RAW'S analogy the returning Ail would see themselves as the surviving Ail (or Jews) who keep to the Three Fold Land and follow the Age old customs (keep the Jewish Covenant with God).

 

Actually, the Jenn were the only ones who kept the original covenant, but the Tinkers are closer than the Shaido.  The original covenant was to serve the Aes Sedai and keep the Way of the Leaf.  The Tinkers are still doing one out of two; the Shaido are keeping neither portion.

 

Serving the Aes Sedai? The Tinkers seem to have no problem doing that, we know of at least one ex-AE agent, and really, who better to have report to the AE than a group of people who go everywhere, have an interesting look on things, and most importantly, seem to get along surprisingly well with the AE. If I remember right, when a tinker girl learns she can channel they all head to drop her off at the WT. A major AE goal is peace and preventing war after all, a return to the AoL where peace reigned.

[Muad Cheade]

I think the Shaido will be part of the remnant of a remnant but that remnant will also include those of the other clans that follow Rand. The Reason the Shaido had so many Aiel with them was because they brought their entire clan. The other clans pretty much only brought the algai'd'siswai. Therefore that also means that the majority of the non-fighters (women, children, etc) are still "safe" on the Waste. Rand has several hundred thousand Aiel on this side of the Dragonwall with him so I think a remnant of those would be a few tens of thousands of Aiel.

 

I'm not sure the Shaido are even considered to be Aiel anymore. They're no longer Aiel yet they're not the Tua'than. The Tinkers take the women who can channel to Tar Valon, which might be a problem now since many are moving to Seanchan-held territory. The Tinkers, Jenn Aiel, and the Aiel who were hit by the bleakness who are attempting to follow the Way of the Leaf.

[zanotam]

Um, Leya was definitely an exception to the rule, zanotam.  The Tinkers, as a people, do not dedicate their lives to serving the Aes Sedai any more.

 

The Tinkers drop a girl who can channel off at the Tar Valon because keeping her would cause trouble when she learned to channel, not because they serve the Aes Sedai.

 

Serving Aes Sedai does not meaning serving as a servant.

Serve (best def) means to render assistance; be of use; help.

 

I know it's a stretch, but obvious interpretations are rare and tbh, I doubt i'll change my mind on this. It's just one of those things, the first time I read it I immediately thought "Tinkers!"