Can Ter'Angreal Like the Adam (Collar) Be Used in a Stedding?

[mb]

terangreal that require the One Power I take would be disabled inside stedding.  adam I take to be one of those.

terangreal that do not require the One Power, those I take would work in a stedding.

[CrystallineTart]

I doubt it, my reasno is bad but something to consider about the Seanchan is

in many ways they are more jailors than slavers....

 

The point isn't to use magic productively it's to kill it entirely more or less....

 

It's speculative how it all works ... but magic isn't like the easiest thing to use in the first place

and multip9le magical sources at once is very complicated as well.....

 

But I wouldn't go messing with adam/Seanchan "magic" since the series is sorta clear

at least to where I remember it being RJ's series as opposed to Sandersons that like they cha can

channel Is uppose but it's such a deprived/depleted state it's probably better to associate it

just with more or less no magic....

 

Kinda sad... I think the Seanchan are intended to be way more villainous and horrifying than

how they were in the books to an extent... and perhaps RJ would have made that revision were

he still alive now.

[jsbrads]

Even tho Grendel said the type of madness in which the person hears the real voice of the person he was reborn from is the hardest to heal, it doesn’t mean it can’t be healed (she didn’t think stilling could be healed either).

And while the 3rd age is in our distant future (and past) the universe mechanics are different, mental illness is still fixable, even tho we barely scratched the surface of what can be fixed (excepting people who hear real voices of the people they are reborn from).

[Sabio]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:24 AM, CrystallineTart said:

I doubt it, my reasno is bad but something to consider about the Seanchan is

in many ways they are more jailors than slavers....

 

The point isn't to use magic productively it's to kill it entirely more or less....

 

It's speculative how it all works ... but magic isn't like the easiest thing to use in the first place

and multip9le magical sources at once is very complicated as well.....

 

But I wouldn't go messing with adam/Seanchan "magic" since the series is sorta clear

at least to where I remember it being RJ's series as opposed to Sandersons that like they cha can

channel Is uppose but it's such a deprived/depleted state it's probably better to associate it

just with more or less no magic....

 

Kinda sad... I think the Seanchan are intended to be way more villainous and horrifying than

how they were in the books to an extent... and perhaps RJ would have made that revision were

he still alive now.

I think the opposite, Rand disagrees with their collaring people but even he admitted they did make life better for most of their people.  They were to seem like these pure evil monsters at first but closer look shows that they are bad on things like collaring channelers, but they actually did bring order and stability.  In many ways they are no worse than the Whitecloaks.  Randland nations seem like nice places but you see nobles are basicly above the law in most the nations.  Aiel basicly murder anyone who enters the waste.  I think Rj meant for them to be a place where people can argue they are evil and others could argue they aren't so bad.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Sabio

[threadnecromancer]

3 hours ago, jsbrads said:

Even tho Grendel said the type of madness in which the person hears the real voice of the person he was reborn from is the hardest to heal, it doesn’t mean it can’t be healed (she didn’t think stilling could be healed either).

And while the 3rd age is in our distant future (and past) the universe mechanics are different, mental illness is still fixable, even tho we barely scratched the surface of what can be fixed (excepting people who hear real voices of the people they are reborn from).

My understanding is that the One Power can't be used for healing madness and the True Power is the only thing that can do so there.  The One Power can heal physical ailments, but madness is a spiritual ailment.

 

There was that workaround in ToM but I believe that was just BS looking for something to fill pages with. 

[jsbrads]

It is worth splitting madness into categories.

Saidin evil based sickness should be able to be healed just like Saidin was healed, just like Egwene could counter Demandred with reverse Balefire.

I would admit that hearing the voice of a real person you were reborn from is spiritual in nature and far more complex. Grendel said exactly that. But Modhegien did remove Brigitte from the wheel, and that is purely spiritual. I’m not taking for granted Grendel was wrong, but I can easily imagine a simple fix whereby the voice is muffled by a weave and the person undergoes regular therapy to get them noticeably better.

I take for granted physical mental illnesses like chemical imbalances, physical damage to the brain which result in mental illness should be able to be healed. 

[CrystallineTart]

Why are we wondering about the adam is my only question...

 

Biggest evil terrible thing... maybe not ever... but just a really bad thing...

 

Probably best to just keep their attention to a minimum that's my approach.

[DemandredFO]

Yes I know @threadnecromancer the healing of taint madness wasn't a logical outgrowth of Nyneave's character, it was obviously Brandon inventing stuff. 

[Sabio]

Why?  Nyn has proven she is probably the best healer of the age.  She healed being stilled, she can read compulsion, so how is healing madness not a logical outgrowth?

[jsbrads]

Nynaeve can see inside people really well, kind of like a talent. The young women all are very openminded about using power to fix things, discover new techniques. No one else would try. 

[Sabio]

That's one of the flaws with the Aes Sedai.  When you join the White Tower you are forced to their way of thinking.  Experimenting with the power is bad, this is how something is done so do it like this, and even the BWB says the yellow is suppose to "find new cures and methods of using the one power to restore health, though in truth, few believe any better method exists than the one known since the breaking."  It was going to take new channelers with open minds to advance things.

[DemandredFO]

Well more might be inclined to try now that stilling is healable but we'll probably never know if burning out is healable.

[jsbrads]

Everyone knows so much was lost after the Breaking. I think Nynaeve rediscovered some things thru unconscious use of the power and genetic memory like her 5 Element use which is far better than the 3 Element simpler weave more suited to weaker women with less talent.

But Nynaeve also discovered new things two, most obvious, healing stilling, a function of being too old to conform to Tower rules, general headstrongness, etc. 

[KyNiker]

I have no idea why this thread seems to have gotten off-topic (although maybe I am missing something), but the questions seems like it has two components.

 

When you say "Ter'angreal like the A'dam be used in a Stedding" what do you really mean? 

1) If you mean that a damane can still channel the one power at the direction of the sul'dam, then no, as the damane will not be able to access saidar. 

2) If you mean can the sul'dam still control the damane and make the damane feel things, then possibly yes. 

 

The WoT fandom site states: 

The a'dam creates a link between the two female channeller; the wearer of the collar is completely controlled by the wearer of the bracelet. Latter is not even required to be able to channel on her own, only to have the ability to learn how to channel is enough for controlling the wearer of the collar.

 

So the a'dam creates a link, and the wearer of the bracelet can control the wearer of the collar, so long as they can both channel (spark vs learned ability is irrelevant here). 

 

The problem is that is it not expressly stated that the a'dam requires any input from saidar to work in regards to controlling the damane. It is never stated that when the sul'dam wants to punish the damane, the sul'dam forces the damane to channel weaves at herself. This supports the argument that the a'dam would work in a Stedding because the abilities of the a'dam regarding feeling what the damane feels and making her feel things, is not dependent of actively channelling. Having the ability to channel, and being able to reach the source, are two very different things.

 

Mat's necklace would still work in a stedding, the rings of the Bloodknives could be activated and used in a Stedding, and  I would assume that a binding rod could be used, if the channeller used a well to channel the power into it. Even Egwene's twisted stone ring would work, as it only needs to be touching the skin of the user to function.

 

In short, there needs to be a differentiation of ter'angreal which are made with the power but do not require active input from it to function, and those which actively require the power to function, such as the Bowl of the Winds. 

 

Anyway, this is my first and hopefully not my last post. Let me know what you think. 

[jsbrads]

Far Madding proves that you can’t channel inside a Stedding even with a Well.

Outer ring men can’t sense the Source.

Second ring women can’t sense the Source.

Inner ring is like a stedding where no one can channel even with a Well.

An Adam once put on outside the stedding, should prevent the capturee from opening the catch inside a Stedding, because it is a sort of conditioned response, nausea, not magic.

Since the Adam is like Linking. Ask yourself what would happen if two women Link, the one controlling the Link stays outside the Stedding and the second woman steps into a Stedding. The books never explored this type of exercise. Logic dictates they would still be linked, she can go to the other side of the world and the link wouldn’t break... But the woman outside would be unable to access the inside woman’s power. 

[Sabio]

Nyn channeled in Far Madding using a well 

 

The one holding the leash just needs the ability to channel, she doesn't need to use the power to inflict pain on the leashed one.  If the one who is leashed stays inside then shouldn't be able to channel.  The question should be if the Damane was outside (so can still touch the source) and the leash holder is inside the stedding, could she use the power inside?  Since the link requires the leashed one to be able to channel to do anything.

[jsbrads]

Nynaeve channeled inside Far Madding outside the innermost circle. Anyway, the Far Madding Terangreal works inside its own stedding, that is not proof, but...

[Bard29]

Didn't Nynaeve channeled inside the palace in Far Madding when they where going to get Lan and Rand out of prison ? 

[Sabio]

Not sure what inner most circle he is talking about, nothing listed like that about Far Madding in the Companion.  There is an outer circle that's stops men described as extending a fair distance from the city and women were cut off at the city.  Nothing about a area that not even a well would work.

[DemandredFO]

Nyneave channeled and didn't an Asha'Man warder channel?

[Dagon Thyne]

On 2/13/2008 at 2:48 AM, safwd said:

Another good question today.

Im not sure if a adam would work or not. A T'angreal that actually uses the one power would not work im sure (such as the balefire rod) but an adam does not actually use the power does it, it just established a link between the suldan and damane, but perhaps the link is done with the power.

Another question to ponder.

Everything about an adam is based around the one power.  The one power is what causes the pain and nausea when a person wearing a adam tries to remove it.  It's also what creates the link itself between the wearer and the suldan.  That is why only a person with the spark of the one power powerful enough to learn to channel can be a suldan.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by Dagon Thyne

[DemandredFO]

@SabioI'm pretty sure the Aes Sedai who were collared thought the Seanchan were pure evil and the female channelers Luthair took at the beginning of the conquest.

[Sabio]

The "Aes Sedai" over in Seanchan were also described as backstabbing, power hungry where alliances were constantly changing.  The ones over there never took an oaths.  So Luthair, who already distrusted Aes Sedai, had good reason to see there people collared.  So some can argue what he did was bad, but others could argue he did what was needed to be done to stop these power hungry people from using the power like that.