Can Ter'Angreal Like the Adam (Collar) Be Used in a Stedding?

[The Lost One]

Can Ter'Angreal Like the Adam (Collar) Be Used in a Stedding or places like Far Madding?  What would happen if a suldam and damane crossed over to a stedding?  Would the other ter'angreal that do specific things work in a stedding or Far Madding?

 

These are just some questions that came to mind in another thread.  Anyone have any ideas? 

 

 

 

[algspkr]

Can Ter'Angreal Like the Adam (Collar) Be Used in a Stedding or places like Far Madding?  What would happen if a suldam and damane crossed over to a stedding?  Would the other ter'angreal that do specific things work in a stedding or Far Madding?

 

These are just some questions that came to mind in another thread.  Anyone have any ideas? 

I believe that Ter'Angreal lose most if not all of their effectiveness on a Stedding.  I would not be surprised if a damane could remove her own adam there.

[aevogt]

And then kick seven kinds of crap out of her suldam.

[Dhaos]

That's a really interesting question.  The only terangreal that I can remember being used in a 'No Channeling Zone'  are the Wells that get used in Far Madding.  But we never see them get used inside of a real, actual Stedding...

[safwd]

Another good question today.

Im not sure if a adam would work or not. A T'angreal that actually uses the one power would not work im sure (such as the balefire rod) but an adam does not actually use the power does it, it just established a link between the suldan and damane, but perhaps the link is done with the power.

Another question to ponder.

[Samakain]

The link i believe is something wrought of the power, so its a sure bet it'd stop working, no biggie thou, the damae can't channel anyway. I really doubt a good proper Seachan damae would beat the crap out of her sul'dam...both of them would be to damned scared to do anything really..

[Darth_Andrea]

And then kick seven kinds of crap out of her suldam.

 

 

Only if she was 1 a RandLander, and 2 she hadn't been in the thing so long she was broken as so many women become.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]       

[DuDZiK]

And then kick seven kinds of crap out of her suldam.

 

Except if she were in a stedding or Far Madding she wouldn't be able to channel.

[aevogt]

You don't need to channel to make a fist.  Although the point that the Seanchan damane wouldn't be liekly to strike their damane has been made and it's a good one. 

 

 

[Dhaos]

The link i believe is something wrought of the power, so its a sure bet it'd stop working...

 

Hmm, do you mean because it's something that deals directly with the Power?

 

I'm not sure that things wrought with the Power lose their effects inside a Stedding...Power wrought swords and cuendillar probably maintain their properties inside a Stedding...otherwise Darkfriends would have been playing the "let's get all the seals inside a Stedding and break 'em" game for the last 3000 years. ;P

[Ahaz Flagg]

The Tailsman of growing will not work in an stedding, the gates are always outside. I think its safe to say, that no Ter'Angreal or anything made to use power would work there.

[Lanthirrhos]

If A sul'dam has to be able to be trained in the OP(even tho she isn't) to used an adam, then that seems to imply that the user needs the OP to work it properly. So I'd say that an Adam wouldn't be able to work in a Stedding. The real question, is if the damane would bother to free themselves...

[wvlr]

Well we have examples of 2 different devices that worked in FM  -  the 2 Wells and the actual FM ter'angrel.

 

And we have an example of one device that speciffically does not - Ter'angrel of Growing.

 

Now using such a small sampling of objects to make general predictions is inherently foolish - but that never stopped me before.

 

 

The Wells seem to work by collecting sadin/saidar (we can not be sure about both but I am allowing the possibility)and transporting it inside where it is then used by the Channeler inside.

 

 

My best guess using the limited data we have would be that in order for a Terr'angrel to work inside it would either have to be linked via Channeler to a Well or contain it's own Well (Unlikely but possible).

 

The Seals, A'dam and Ter'angrel are power wrought items but they are not destroyed by taking them into FM/Steadings.   But in order to preform anything more than a static function (like the Seals) they would require Power.

 

The A'dams specifically would surely loose their "Linking" capability, but as to wheather the Damane could trip the "release" would depend on wheather the "release" used Power to break the thing apart.    That, again I doubt.     So most likely a Damane could free herself.

[Luckers]

My guess would be that the effect it would have on the a'dam would be akin to what damane experience trying to move the bracelet on their own--severe pain. But thats just a guess.

 

Either way it has interesting implications about the nature of the relationship between the Seanchan and the Ogier--we know that some form of interesting event happened, and that it resulted in the Ogier serving, and yet remaining seperate from the Empire.

[The Lost One]

Very interesting ideas/theories.  I begin thinking the a'dam would not work in the stedding, but someone mentioned that only if the ter'angreal used the power that it would not work.  When the damane is not linked to the sul'dam outside the stedding they can not remove the collar, move too far, etc.. I don't think that the a'dam is using any power....unless it is maybe using the damane's own power....so now I am wondering if it would have the same effect on the channeler as it does outside the stedding.  I am not sure either way now. 

[Sharaman]

Hmm What would happen to "Little Lina" if she and Therava landed up in a Stedding? Would the oaths of fealty hold or would Casban be able to run for it? Or would Therava beat seven kinds of crap out of her pre-emptively?

Probably the last, actually!

But it could get interesting if oaths made on a rod don't hold in a stedding.

We've seen AS in a stedding (Verin in TGH and IMO she didn't use the power to delve the zombie Ogier) but the fact that she didn't lie in that incident doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't lie. 

Of course, AS in Far Madding (another place where the source is absent) seem to be held to the First Oath

So maybe this isn't relevant. Still it could introduce an off-the-wall element if one more (!) is required.

[dholm]

Hmm. It is an interesting question. I believe the a'dam would be rendered inert; the a'dam draws on the True Source through the damane it is linked to. Inside a stedding, there is no power for it. If linked with a sul'dam, the link would terminate -- such a link is only possible the the True Source. Under normal circumstances, if the link is terminated, the restrictive powers of the a'dam manifest, but without the True Source, it wouldn't have power.

 

As for the Oaths, they are not invalid inside a stedding -- they are linked to the channeler's ability to sense the True Source, not to the actual Source itself. Shielding, for instance, has no effect on the Oaths. The ability remains inside a stedding; it is the True Source which is absent, not the ability. The existence of Wells prove it.

[Dematar]

based on my understanding of an a'dam, it essentially forces a woman wearing it form an involuntary circle with another woman.  which cannot be done without the use of the ter'angreal.  consider this, suian and leane were able to form an incomplete link with moghedian when they were stilled.  both women could still sense the source, but not touch it.  I think that means the ability to sense the source is half of the requirements to fully use the a'dam.  additionally when mistress anan was temporarily linked to joline the negative effects of the a'dam were still on effect, ie joline began to suffer pain when they started to walk.  this implies that to negate the negative effects of the a'dam, a woman wearing the bracelet must be able to both sense and channel the one power.  additionally, the a'dam has no effect on a woman who can do neither.  so in a shedding or far madding, where a woman can neither channel or sense the source, the a'dam should work exactly as if it was placed on a woman unable to channel, which would mean that the ability to control to leashed woman and the negative effects of the a'dam would be negated.

[jsbrads]

Far Madding has 3 terangreal.

the largest cuts men from the source.

the second largest cuts women...

the inner most creates an artificial stedding, where even a well would not allow channeling.

we need to understand the mechanics of 4 separate states before we can conclude on any of these.

There is a power which can disrupt access for both men and women to the Source. Imagine access to the Source requires a given frequency to access it, then a Terangreal that prevents you from accessing the Source may produce a frequency that cancels out that ability to access the Source. The frequency would be different for men and women.

An artificial stedding would not only block access to the Source but would even prevent the use of a Well. Presume a more invasive frequency, but again, this seems targeted at humans and should not prevent Terangreal from working. So an Adam would still “work” in Far Madding, even tho neither person can Channel.

The Stedding may function on the same mechanics as an artificial stedding, the localized frequency generated by natural phenomena. Or the Stedding could be magical. I prefer the first option.

Even if a Stedding excludes magic completely, an Adam could still continue to function as the stimuli of nausea is a psychological trained response and could continue to operate without reinforcement. The Male Adam uses force rather than training, so I would infer it would be less effective inside a stedding than an Adam.

Luckers about the Ogier, they functioned as police in the Age of Legends. Ogier’s function in Seachan is more consistent with an integrated society. The Ogier from Seachan are also unhappy tough guys, it doesn’t appear to be just an act. I inferred they are the survivors of a larger Ogier population, whom the majority died without a stedding and the minority survived (but it is a half life...). Perhaps until the Ogier recovered, the Empress cared for them, had them fed while they invalids. Once they recovered from a life without a Stedding, they became the tough guys they are today in the Black Guard, making them perfectly loyal to the Royal family. 

 

 

[threadnecromancer]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2008 at 1:48 AM, safwd said:

Another good question today.

Im not sure if a adam would work or not. A T'angreal that actually uses the one power would not work im sure (such as the balefire rod) but an adam does not actually use the power does it, it just established a link between the suldan and damane, but perhaps the link is done with the power.

Another question to ponder.

I suppose related to that, would a shocklance work in a Stedding? In the Age of Legends basically all technology was fueled by the One Power.

 

Now I have this vision of the Steddings each having a coal power plant to provide them electricity.

[jsbrads]

If Ogier had any tech, they may not have lost it, having long memories. 

In the Age of Legends Ogier May have used an Aes sedai traveling gate, or ride one of the winged crafts. But they probably would be uncomfortable using coal fired power.

[Sabio]

Ogier were planning to leave this world to escape the Last Battle,  a stedding can't be entered through the world of dreams, trollocs won't enter unless forced, and the companion states even die hard DF's have  hard time staying in there.  Even abandoned steddings retain their properties.  The companion states places like the blight, a stedding, and the lands of the Aelfinn/Eelfinn are not part of the normal universe, it was not reflected in and could not be entered from Tel'aran'rhiod.  The companion also confirms Ogier did not orginate in this world.   So a stedding must be in both worlds. 

 

I would think a a'dam would work to where you could sense their feelings and such but trying to make them channel would be impossible.  Since all a stedding does is act like you have been severed.   We know during Nyn's testing of Siuan a A'dam still works for her.  So it's the same as putting it on a severed person.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Sabio

[jsbrads]

You can’t sense the Source in the Stedding.

Also pretty sure a severed woman can be held by an Adam. Joline couldn’t wear the collar while that severed held the bracelet. 

[DemandredFO]

Does the companion whether burnout can be healed since Satelle couldn't hold the adam but Suian could

 

[threadnecromancer]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:08 PM, DemandredFO said:

Does the companion whether burnout can be healed since Satelle couldn't hold the adam but Suian could

 

I don't have the Companion handy so I can't check, but I believe it says that Satelle was never healed.

 

That said, I'm fairly certain that burn out can be healed, because of course anything aside from death and madness supposedly can be healed by the One Power,  but it certainly doesn't happen in the life time of these characters.