Is Mat reborn?

[slayerA]

Ok, Mat has all these memories, did the Eelfinn let him tap into his old lives or other mens? Has Mat always been reborn to be military leader, much like Birgitte to always use the bow? 

 

1. He was speaking fluent Old Tongue shortly after leaving the Two Rivers.

2. Tuon ask him if HE saw the face of Artur Hawkwing, not another man. Lidda  foreseen this to Tuon. If they were other men's memories how she could she see this if it was someone else's memory?

3. Aelfinn prophecy - to die and live once more as a part of what once was.

4. He ask to fill HIS missing memories refilled

5. Mat's ashandarei says "Thought is the arrow of time, MEMORY NEVER FADES, What was asked is given, The price is paid."

 

I have to feel that he was reborn, but there are parts that kind of seem like these are other men's lives.

 

Anyone else have any insight or thoughts as I am still trying to figure this out?

[Majsju]

The memories he got from the finns are from other people, the memories he has before that are his own.

 

When Tuon asks if Mat remembers hawkwings face, it refers to him in this lifetime. Mat met Hawkwing in TGH.

 

Mat asked the finns to have the holes in his  memory filled, he never said with what.

[Luckers]

Indeed, the memories came from men who had entered the realm of the Finns--apparently travel through the Tower of Ghenjii was once much more common.

[Dragon21]

I certainly think Mat could have been reborn, but then I wonder, wouldn't he be bound to the Horn like the other heroes if he had been the one to actually do everything that he recalls in his memories.

 

Him speaking the old tongue so early on is the most intriguing to me. The memories are explainable, but I do wonder why he could suddenly speak the old tongue, yet at times not even realize what he is saying. This lends to the reborn theory in my mind.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Well since everyone is someone reborn the short answer is, yes.

[slayerA]

When Tuon asks if Mat remembers hawkwings face, it refers to him in this lifetime. Mat met Hawkwing in TGH.

 

Ah yeah, I forgot all about that little bit. I recalled when he had that flashback when she asked him and he remembered looking up at Hawkwing after a battle then dying. 

 

Luckers, I thought the Tower was the place not to enter as stated by Birgitte to Perrin, that you could not return from that way? Also how can you tell it was the memories from other's that entered? I kind of understand but not clear.

 

I think know I change my mind and have to go with both, he is reborn AND has the memory of other men. At least I can only be half wrong no matter what. It makes the most sense and covers all the possibles.

[Vidarr]

For a while now I've thought that Mat might actually be one of the heroes of the horn. while yes most of the memories he has did come from the Finns, there is still some evidence from before he  even went through the ter'angreal, he had been spouting the old tongue to an extent far greater than anyone could attribute to the old blood alone. And in TDR when he is being separated from the dagger he was remembering the fall of Manetheren and ordering troops around in the battle. I'm fairly sure that the old blood doesn't let people remember things in that much detail. Later in SR when he is being dragged out of the red stone doorway by the aelfinn (sp) they say "go to Rhuidean Son of Battles! Go to Rhuidean, Trickster! Go gambler! go!" I think this may be referring to titles from his past as well as titles he will have in the future. Later on (can't remember which book) Mat was thinking back and remembering the fall of Manetheren again in what I think was the same memory as when he was being healed but now he could remember all the little details. I think after having the Eelfinns (sp) cram a bunch of other memories into his head it shook loose his own memories from past lives as well(or at least fragments of them).

 

Anyway thats my two cents.

[safwd]

Very good points Vidarr.

I always thought Mat was reborn primarily because of what you said. Im not so sure he is a Hero of the Horn reborn though, at least not yet.

Most of the other memories are other peoples though.

[Ahaz Flagg]

No one can prove or disporve weather Mat is tied to the wheel, I think that is what you realy meant to ask. However, it is my belief that like Rand, Mat and Perrin also are tied and spun out when the wheel has need of them.  There have been other times when "the Gambler" has been spun out,  Mat even has some of these memories.  The fact that Mat is now known as the Gambeler, is not 100% sure, but it certianly lends itself to Mat being tied to the wheel like Rand.

[kleribituc]

ell, when they were at Falme and Mat blew the horn then Hawkwing was talking to him afterwards Hawking alluded that every so often they get new heroes tied to the horn.  That and him recognizing LTT in Rand leads me to believe that if he was a hero of the horn reborn Hawkwing would have recognized Mat as well.

[bjclinton]

I personally believe that those memories are from Mat's former lives, not the memories of other souls. I also believe...and I have ABSOLUTELY no basis for this thought- that he will be one of the heroes "added" to the heroes of the horn. It might even be possible that sounding the horn, not for glory but out of necessity, as matt has already done, could be one of the things that could link you to the horn.

 

how bout THAT!  ;)

 

 

[Vidarr]

This is 100% speculation, but one theory is that every time the horn has been sounded it is sounded by the same soul that is spun out for that purpose. Just a thought.

[Telzen]

With all Mat and Perrin have done during the books I could see them being bound to the Wheel when they die(if they weren't already). They are the most important people after Rand when it comes to winning the last battle.

[Mr Ares]

RJ quote:

Week 12 Question: You stated in another interview that Mat's memories came from adventurers who traveled through the ter'angreal. However several of Mat's memories end with the adventurer dying. Since adventurers probably didn't go through the ter'angreal after they died, how could the 'Finns have obtained these memories?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: A good question. I was wondering when someone would ask that. I expected it as soon as Mat started revealing those old memories. At least a partial answer will be coming up in the next main sequence book, so I guess you could say this is a RAFO. But I will say that if I said those adventurers all entered through the two ter'angreal, I misspoke. A good many entered through the Tower of Ghenjei, which was more widely known in earlier years, if never exactly a household name.

And in KOD, Mat says that the Finns are in his head, so there is the promised partial answer.

[SqueeEGA]

ell, when they were at Falme and Mat blew the horn then Hawkwing was talking to him afterwards Hawking alluded that every so often they get new heroes tied to the horn.  That and him recognizing LTT in Rand leads me to believe that if he was a hero of the horn reborn Hawkwing would have recognized Mat as well.

 

my thoughts exactly.

 

isnt it mentioned around book 5 somewhere (Birgitte i think, cant be sure, memory is fallible.  this could just be completely fabricated.) that not all are reborn, but only those that did something significant.  ie LTT, Hawkwing, Birgitte...those that live their between lives in T'A'R. 

[bjclinton]

ell, when they were at Falme and Mat blew the horn then Hawkwing was talking to him afterwards Hawking alluded that every so often they get new heroes tied to the horn.  That and him recognizing LTT in Rand leads me to believe that if he was a hero of the horn reborn Hawkwing would have recognized Mat as well.

 

my thoughts exactly.

 

isnt it mentioned around book 5 somewhere (Birgitte i think, cant be sure, memory is fallible.  this could just be completely fabricated.) that not all are reborn, but only those that did something significant.  ie LTT, Hawkwing, Birgitte...those that live their between lives in T'A'R. 

 

It is based I this that I suspect Matt will be a hero tied to the horn moving forward.

[aevogt]

ell, when they were at Falme and Mat blew the horn then Hawkwing was talking to him afterwards Hawking alluded that every so often they get new heroes tied to the horn.  That and him recognizing LTT in Rand leads me to believe that if he was a hero of the horn reborn Hawkwing would have recognized Mat as well.

 

my thoughts exactly.

 

isnt it mentioned around book 5 somewhere (Birgitte i think, cant be sure, memory is fallible.  this could just be completely fabricated.) that not all are reborn, but only those that did something significant.  ie LTT, Hawkwing, Birgitte...those that live their between lives in T'A'R. 

 

 

Something significant like inventing firearms and revolutionizing warfare.  Yeah, I'd say that if he wasn't already bound to the horn, Mat vertainly will be now.

[kleribituc]

I definitely can believe that Mat will be tied to the horn.  He is just too cool not to be.

[Juggler]

I think Matt is a direct decendent of the King of Manetheren - Aemon Al Caar al Thorin's family if you look at the name and squueze it together

 

caalthorin to cauthorn isn't a big step with the right accent  ;)especially when you consider loial talking about places changing names in book 1 or 2 giving Cairhenin as an example of 1 getting shorter.

 

 

a lot of the 2 rivers names link into that

 

Tam al'thor (al thorin?) also a blade master. in book 1 people thought Rand a king because of the al' prefix like Lan

 

the al'caars. Maybe Matt is Aemon reborn or a direct descendant. He had the old tounge before the door ter'angreal.

 

[trakand_01]

Re' the theory that Mat could be bound to the horn as a 'new' hero. How annoyed would he be at that!? haha he's spent all this time waiting for his time of 'responsibility' to be over, and he could be stuck with it forever.

 

He'd be a great hero though.

[DemandredFO]

I've always wondered why Rand has two taver'en with him and we've never heard anything about LTT having others(Taver'en) with him.  Is it likely that some Foresaken might have been Taver'en but lost it when they became evil.

[The Lost One]

I've always wondered why Rand has two taver'en with him and we've never heard anything about LTT having others(Taver'en) with him.  Is it likely that some Foresaken might have been Taver'en but lost it when they became evil.

 

Maybe LTT had taver'en around him and we just don't know/didn't hear about it.  I think it is mentioned in the stories that the histories that are written usually leave out bits and pieces, sometimes important factors.  I am sure the stories of LTT concentrated on him alone, but he probably had a LOT of help from others. 

[Corbett]

mat sees some of the battles from both sides so he would have to have been reborn as multiple people, i think not

 

[Majsju]

I think Matt is a direct decendent of the King of Manetheren - Aemon Al Caar al Thorin's family if you look at the name and squueze it together

 

Most likely not. Look at his healing in TDR. When he wakes up afterwards he starts thinking about leading the Red Eagle into battle. That's typically not something a king does. And if we are to connect the Band to one of his previous incarnations, the original Band was formed to protect the king (among other things).

 

I've always wondered why Rand has two taver'en with him and we've never heard anything about LTT having others(Taver'en) with him.  Is it likely that some Foresaken might have been Taver'en but lost it when they became evil.

 

Why would LTT have had two ta'veren with him? They lived in different Ages, and had very different things to deal with. LTT was aimed at fighting the DO when he was at the height of his power, and had all the technology and thousands of Aes Sedai to aid him. Rand was born to do it, without any of the bonuses LTT had, except for being an extremely powerful channeler, and being ta'veren.

 

mat sees some of the battles from both sides so he would have to have been reborn as multiple people, i think not

 

Pretty much all of Mats memories after his visit to Rhuidean comes from the finns, not his own past lives. He asked to have the holes in his memories filled, but "forgot" (ok, he did not know how dealing with the finns works) to tell them with what he wanted them to be filled, so the finns simply took what they had available. The memories he got was collected by the finns from people who went to their realm, and since going there is not exactly something your ordinary farmboy would do, it is no wonder the memories are from a certain kind of people.

[aussie_ashaman123]

and as morraine told perrin once, the wheel is neither good nor evil, a ta'veren  who joins the shadow would stay a ta'veren