Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Sign in to follow this  
dlan4327

Let Poor Sylvie Help...

Recommended Posts

I can't believe I've never really thought of this before but yesterday I was re-reading little snippets of The Dragon Reborn and I came across the passage where Egwene is entering the World of Dream, one of her first forays, and she enters the heart of the stone and meets a woman who calls herself Sylvie. This Sylvie woman helps her out seems all kind and comforting, obviously has an in depth knowledge of the World of Dreams since she shakes her head when Egwene confess she can't get out. Sylvie mutters something along the line of "Shouldn't be here. Dangerous if you don't know the rules". Then  perhaps most bizarrely after Sylvie sends Egwene flying out of the World of Dreams we never hear from Sylvie again. Ever. Period. So finally I can get to my point, who was Sylvie? Forsaken? Wise One? High Up Dark Friend? I guess it's just made me curious for the first time.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe I've never really thought of this before but yesterday I was re-reading little snippets of The Dragon Reborn and I came across the passage where Egwene is entering the World of Dream, one of her first forays, and she enters the heart of the stone and meets a woman who calls herself Sylvie. This Sylvie woman helps her out seems all kind and comforting, obviously has an in depth knowledge of the World of Dreams since she shakes her head when Egwene confess she can't get out. Sylvie mutters something along the line of "Shouldn't be here. Dangerous if you don't know the rules". Then  perhaps most bizarrely after Sylvie sends Egwene flying out of the World of Dreams we never hear from Sylvie again. Ever. Period. So finally I can get to my point, who was Sylvie? Forsaken? Wise One? High Up Dark Friend? I guess it's just made me curious for the first time.   

 

I have been under the impression it was Lanfear. I could be wrong but it seemed to fit especialy when she said "Bal`zamon is a fool" that kinda clinched it for me.

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't remember that exact passage but i'll happily believe it to have been Lanfear. What I can't understand about Lanfear, is how she veers between arch-enemy and aide of our little friends. She spends a long time trying to force Rand to do her bidding, then virtually gives him Asmodean as a teacher. Then later she attempts to kill Egwene (wrongly thinking her to be Aviendha, or perhaps not caring so long as ONE of the women with Rand is hurt) and takes Moiraine through the doorway.

 

Actually that begs the question - if she saw egwene (when under the guise of Sylvie) in tDR, how comes she didnt know her to NOT be Aviendha when she took Moiraine through the doorway?

 

We learn later on that it is actually Moghedien who is the expert in T'A'R, but Lanfear believes it to be herself - what extra knowledge does Moggy have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually that begs the question - if she saw egwene (when under the guise of Sylvie) in tDR, how comes she didnt know her to NOT be Aviendha when she took Moiraine through the doorway?

 

Egwene probably looked quite different after several months in the Waste ... tanned, fitter (running laps and all that), and dressed like a Wise One.

 

Plus, Lanfear was pretty pissed.  She probably wasn't looking too clearly at details.

 

We learn later on that it is actually Moghedien who is the expert in T'A'R, but Lanfear believes it to be herself - what extra knowledge does Moggy have?

 

Its never spelled out, but Moghedien seems to be better at finding things and people, better at hiding (a big plus in her book), and possibly better at actually manipulating the stuff of Tel'aran'rhiod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll speculate, that lanfear, possibly is better at screwing with other people's dreams (I base this on stuff said about her activities in the BWB), and the whole "dark place with loads of glowing lights" thing. While Moghedien has more control in T'A'R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What baffled me was why she tried to convince Egwene she'd been serving her family for years.. she said something along those lines, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. It makes absolutly no sense. The only comment that makes her seem one of the forsaken is the comment "Ba'alzamon is a fool." It definatly wouldn't be any darkfriend except the forsaken, because even if they know Ba'alzamon is Ishamael, he's still a forsaken. Other than that, Silvie could be seen as helping Egwene or helping Ba'al, and it's doubtful any of the forsaken would do either.

 

Oh, and I say helping Ba'al because he was planting a trap for them. Although come to the thought, I don't think Egwene seeing Ba'al helped lure them to Tear, so maybe not.

 

Lanfear seems to be particularly possessive with TAR, so I don't believe she would help any dreamer. And Moghedien reveals no recognition of Egwene when she sets that trap for her with Galad, and I think Gawyn too, in TAR, which I believe she would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further proof of Lanfear's sloppiness. I believe she confused Elayne and Egwene- and Elayne would have been susceptible to the suggestion that there was a retainer she didn't recognize.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a bit of a stretch... I think Lanfear would at least know the differences of their hair color, even if she didn't bother to learn their facial features.

 

I think it's more likely to be somebody tied to the wheel than Lanfear or Moghedien.

 

But I'd like to know, what would the advantage be for Lanfear to help Egwene, or Elayne? I can't see any, she only cares about Rand, and even then she only cares about having him and wouldn't care much about his grief, and power. I can't see how helping Egwene accomplishes either of those things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sylvase Silvie silver- all references to Lanfear's moon goddess imagery.

 

She didn't help them. She led them into Be'lal's trap. She was also probably the one who left all the "obvious" clues pointing to Tear in the Black Ajah "belongings"- since she was in the Tower at the time (Egwene meets her).

 

What was Be'lal's trap for? Luring Rand. What did Lanfear want? Rand to accept his destiny (partially) and acquire a taste for power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, paint me stupid. Now that you reminded me, you're right, I do remember that Lanfear had disguised herself as Else to tell them about the objects in the Tower's storage room. Lanfear did have a clear advantage in them going to Tear.

 

Hmm... And come to the thought, considering the topic about Perrin seeing Lanfear spying on those other two forsaken, she would also know of Be'lal's plan, assuming that's what they were talking about, and so would be able to take those actions luring the girls to Tear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I beg to differ from all. I'm thinking along the lines of Birgitte... (Silver arrow). She is the only one I could think of who would help her.

 

This Sylvie woman helps her out seems all kind and comforting, obviously has an in depth knowledge of the World of Dreams since she shakes her head when Egwene confess she can't get out. Sylvie mutters something along the line of "Shouldn't be here. Dangerous if you don't know the rules". Then  perhaps most bizarrely after Sylvie sends Egwene flying out of the World of Dreams

 

We know that their lives are spun into T'A'R while they await either to be reborn or to answer the call of the horn. Furthermore in a conversation with Elayne, she said that she had broken the "rules" by talking and revealing herself. She also knows T'A'R as good if not better than Lanfear or Moghy, bacause she had been able to know of the forsaken's meetings and whereabouts without being previously detected (not to mention without the one power).

 

A possible explanation as to why "Sylvie" doesnt appear anymore is coz Egwene goes to the wise ones and doesnt visit T'A'R without any of the wise ones(in the begining) and after a while Moghy rips her out of it.

 

Just my opinion....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Birgitte would refer to Ishamael as Ba'alzamon, nor would she call him a fool; she's scared of Moghedien, with good reason too, she'd be atleast just as scared of Ishamael.

 

And Lanfear is the one who covers her beauty up with extr-ugly disguises, probably knew that Egwene (or one of the girls) would be visiting T'A'R that night (she saw the twisted ring), and inclined enough towards casual cruelty to rip the ring off of her and send her flying outta T'A'R in a mass of pain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lanfear was setting the trap for Be'lal, just as BFB said, for the reasons BFB said.  Egwene found the Stone, but didn't know what she was seeing, or what it meant.  "Sylvie" provided her with that information, in a way that encouraged her to go to Tear.

 

"Sylvie" referred to the Dark One as the Great Lord, something Birgitte would never do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw someone say that there weren't any other clues except when Sylvie said Baalzamon is a fool.   Doesn't anyone else pay attention to little things?   To use the term 'Great Lord' kind of means you're a darkfriend or Forsaken.  It could not have been Birgitte.  I think anyone other than Lanfear would have used compulsion or killed Egwene.  Plus she said Chosen I think.  Honestly I think it was a mistake on her part to say that, but no one says Lanfear was smart. Haha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The companion confirms Silvie was LanFear, it says she attempted to bamboozle Egwene in the World of Dreams.

 

All the clues sort of pointed to her like Rellaeing said.  Says Great lord, Chosen, mocking Ba'alzamon, considers herself master of the dream world.  Plus at that time we hadn't met Moghi or any of the other Forsaken who might of been wandering the World of Dreams.  So pretty much was the main Forsaken you could suspect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Lanfear first sent the girls to the library disguised as Else. She was afraid Mat would casually touch her on the path and pierce her illusion. I don’t know why Lanfear wanted the girls in Tear. She couldn’t have predicted 3 girls would beat 13 aes sedai and protect Rand for her. Maybe Lanfear can read taveren and the girls are minor taveren, so she used that to protect Rand.

I really like Sylvie so I hate to admit it, it is her, Lanfear. I never like her Selene persona, tho if I were there in RL, I probably would have been drooling over her like Rand, Hurin and Loial. I like the calling Ishy a fool, it sounds like something an old wise woman might say ?

Sylvie seems too homey for a play by Brigitte, besides Brigitte never tried to disguise herself. 

Also when Lanfear tried to murder Egwene and Avienda, I never thought she didn’t know which was which. One was clearly an Aiel girl, the other a Westlander. I’m guessing Lanfear got the report that Rand slept with a girl. And she went into a completely blind rage. She couldn’t see straight let alone think. She grabbed those two girls thinking he slept with one of them. She could have accidentally grabbed the wrong two girls she was so angry.

Also, it seem Lanfear is better at controlling your dreams, Moghy is more of Telrhoid master. Lanfear entered Rand’s dreams. Moghy can turn a person into a horse in Telrhoid permanently or even tear Brigitte’s soul off of the wheel.

Edited by jsbrads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She was Sylvie. The only reason she took action was the identical reason Moghedien did to Egwene when she came across her in Tal'aran rhiod. Because Lanfear saw Egwene as a threat to her abilities. It was quite true, considering Moghedien was far superior to Lanfear in ability, and Egwene still escaped her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether the Companion says so or not, there is no better alternative.

Lanfear was helping back then. Selene was also a character she acted out, tho admittedly she didn’t have to act as much with that character.

Sylvie last 30sec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am rereading the Dragon Reborn as well at this time and this was something I was curious about. I agree that it could be Lanfear in this scene, but lets fast forward to one of the last books (spoilers ahead for those who have not finished the series) where Avienda is making her last trip to Rhudian (please ignore spelling issues) and meets an old lady in the desert and shares  her camp fire and a meal with her. Wasn't her name Sylvia too? I honestly don't remember but she was another character who mysteriously comes into the story and disappears again. Could these two be the same person? If so - there is no way Lanfear would help Avienda after the events of her "death" in book 4 or 5. so if they are the same person then Lanfear could not be Sylvia in book 3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No that was Nakomi and I don't if we're ever told who she is but she wasn't Lanfear. She already tried to kill Aviendah once, I don't she would forgive and try manipulation again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...