Who is your favourite Forsaken?

[Moghedian]

Ishmael, of course. He's powerful, and he's evil for the sake of being evil, not for greed/envy/power hunger.

Tis a good point...

[Briwan Dragain]

I like Asmodean a lot, but I really only like when he's good.. and he's not.. really.. a.. Forsaken.. then.. I don't think. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

 

But, come on.. Ishamael is IT for villain. He just WON'T die. That's awesome. And he claims to be the Dark One and the Dark One STILL brings him back after Ishy dies... and then names him nae'blis.. and Moridin is the only one that can touch the True Power. Come now... the guy is awesome and definitely gets my favorite. He's like Syler from Heroes. So evil you just have to like him.

 

So far as the rest go, I think every Forsaken (excuse me, Chosen) have their selling points.

 

I think Semirhage is scary as all hell. Those creepy torture types freak me out. I'd kill her out right, there would be no capture period. I don't care what she knows of healing. Lanfear is hot, and she's quite.. ah.. power-hungry. I'm not so into that.

 

I refuse to believe that Demandred is Taim, though. Taim is definitely a bad guy, but if he was Demandred I think someone would have figured it out by now. Maybe if we said Taim was Moridin, I'd buy that.. but all the other Forsaken would have, and have tried, to kill Rand as soon as they were strong enough to do so. And who could be stronger than a guy that has hundreds of Asha'man to do his bidding?

[Shaidar]

Ishy of course...I did devote a whole two theories to him (partly) at wotmania.

[The Lost One]

Lanfear is my favorite.....Ishy would be my second.  What surprises me is the number of votes for Asmodean.  I had no idea so many people liked him that much.

 

Only 52 total votes so far?.....anyone know approximately how many people use the forum?....I thought there would be a lot more votes.

[krelianzg]

Asmodean by far. I actually liked him. As I said in the structured FS topic, I would have loved to see him fully come over to Rand's side. Having him convert to the Light would've been a little over-the-top, but developing a personal loyalty to Rand doesn't seem like it would have been a big stretch.

 

I was quite upset when he died, but I knew it was pretty much a foregone conclusion from the minute Lanfear left him with Rand.

 

Semirhage is a close runner-up though. Cruel, smart, and more effective than most of the other Forsaken.

[Sauron]

deamandred im not sure why i guess because hes so mysterious we dont much about him and he seems to manuplate from the shadows but isnt a coward unlike moghedion who i hate but despite all his plotting and manuplating he is still willing to fight

[Jelly]

Graendal- She has an interesting personality. I mean, she was a psychologist, and then she decided to completely change. But I think that really she's still got some good left in her, she's just in denial of it. She doesn't treat people as Semirhage does, she gets them to like her.

Amsodean- I don't really know why, I just suppose I liked him. He was fantastic.

 

I think most of them are great characters though. They're actually clever, and they don't turn into weird green monsters etc when they feel like it, like in other stories.  :D

[Nightstrike]

Mesaana, because she's managed to infiltrate the tower.

[stoper]

Asmodean. I think he's not so bad and he helped Rand not only because he was scared for his life.

And I still hope he'll come back and join Rand in the next book. Maybe this ta'veren stuff will turn al least one forsaken to the light.

Since Rand is so pitiful and he need every man on his side for this final battle.

[Moghedian]

Hmmm, I think that the Forsaken might make an effort to stay away from Rand unless they are trying to kill him to minimise the Ta'veren effect...

[Darlakk]

Rahvin was a badass, he had Morgase spun around his little finger and came damn close to beating Rand.

[DaTaimsta]

Demandred. Lews Therin seems the most wary of him whenever he speaks of the Forsaken in Rand's head, and it was said that even Aginor feared him (although this is uncomfirmed).

[DaTaimsta]

Rahvin was a badass, he had Morgase spun around his little finger and came damn close to beating Rand.

 

The only reason he came anywhere near to beating Rand was because he ran and hid like a coward, and also had to take the fight to Tel'Aran'Rhiod, where he was actually stronger than Rand. A duel with the Power in the real world would have ended with Rand as the victor, more than likely.

[pxnsolid]

Rahvin was a badass, he had Morgase spun around his little finger and came damn close to beating Rand.

 

The only reason he came anywhere near to beating Rand was because he ran and hid like a coward, and also had to take the fight to Tel'Aran'Rhiod, where he was actually stronger than Rand. A duel with the Power in the real world would have ended with Rand as the victor, more than likely.

 

and would you not take every advantage you had in a fight for your life? of course you would. he handed rand his ass on a platter until nyn/moggy set rahvin on fire and distracted him.

[Mercer]

How the hell does Graendal get so few votes, other than the typo throwing people off? She's a ridiculously welcome break from the usual Forsaken millieux (plot and scheme, frighten darkfriends, kill/compel Aes Sedai, sit on throne). She hasn't as of yet done anything significant, but at least she knows how to kill time.

[Mr Ares]

How the hell does Graendal get so few votes? She hasn't as of yet done anything significant.

I think you just answered your own question.

 

Rahvin was a badass, he had Morgase spun around his little finger and came damn close to beating Rand.

Had Morgase spun around his little finger? You mean, used compulsion on her, but she still broke free eventually. Using compulsion to control someone isn't all that impressive, nor does it make one a badass. And the fact that she broke free and escaped is to her credit, not Rahvin's. He lost control. Also, he was only beating Rand because Rand was in a place he had far less experience of than Rahvin, and didn't know the rules. I would hardly say it was all that impressive if an experienced chess player was winning against a guy who had never played chess before. Again, not really all that impressive on Rahvin's part.

[DaTaimsta]

How the hell does Graendal get so few votes? She hasn't as of yet done anything significant.

I think you just answered your own question.

 

Rahvin was a badass, he had Morgase spun around his little finger and came damn close to beating Rand.

Had Morgase spun around his little finger? You mean, used compulsion on her, but she still broke free eventually. Using compulsion to control someone isn't all that impressive, nor does it make one a badass. And the fact that she broke free and escaped is to her credit, not Rahvin's. He lost control. Also, he was only beating Rand because Rand was in a place he had far less experience of than Rahvin, and didn't know the rules. I would hardly say it was all that impressive if an experienced chess player was winning against a guy who had never played chess before. Again, not really all that impressive on Rahvin's part.

 

This is true. I would count Rahvin as one of the most pathetic forsaken thus far.

 

Here's my ranking of how effective they've been thus far:

 

1. Ishamael/Moridin: Kept the Forsaken together, broke up Hawkwing's empire, started Trolloc Wars etc etc. He's basically the DO's champion more or less.

 

2. Sammael/Demandred: Both of them tie here. Demandred's was the whole "Lord of Chaos" guy who started that order more or less, and he seems to be high in the DO's standing. We don't quite know what he's done but it's obviously been important because of what he asks the DO at the end of LoC. Of course we don't know the DO's answer so I'm just making an assumption. And of course we have Sammael who dispersed the Shaido all over the place and sowed his own seeds of chaos pretty well. I also think he was responsible for the gholam.

 

3. Graendal: She's slightly less effective than Sammael because she mostly follows his lead (probably because of his strength, but also because she fears he is Nae'blis) but still manages to accomplish the same things he does

 

4. Semirhage: Semmy has been knee deep in torturing people for information for the DO and SH and with the Seanchan. Ultimately it led to her capture but she still managed to deal a blow to Rand (at least physically, mentally she mine as well have clipped his fingernails for him) and didn't go down without a fight.

 

5. Mesaana: She's just placed lower than Semirhage for the main fact that she didn't bother to help at the Cleansing, which caused SH to punish her. Manipulating the Tower was pretty good (even though Elaida is more or less a dumba$$) and she strengthened the BA in the Tower. The plan to capture Rand went poorly though.

 

6. Moghedien: I'm a little soft on Moggy here, but she has carried out the DO's plans rather well. I think she's placed this highly because even though she basically did what Asmodean did (to a lesser degree, I will admit) the DO was still more or less glad to have her alive and useful. Being captured by Nynaeve was a R tard move though. Like many other Chosen, she was too careless.

 

7. Balthamel/Aran'gar: Balthamel at first was pathetic, and Aran'gar's introduction was pretty pathetic, but since then he/she has redeemed him/herself by doing things like freeing Moghedien, using her Darkfriend network, and infiltrating the Salidar Aes Sedai. If she would have done more after the infiltration however, she would be higher, above Moghedien.

 

8. Aginor/Osan'gar: Aginor is badass at first, but then decides to be an idiot and destroy himself by drawing too much of the OP. After he comes back as Osan'gar he's pretty much a coward and a screwup. His plan to kill Rand by masquerading as Dashiva fails miserably, he's blasted away at the Cleansing after being a coward, and he helps Flinn discover a new way of Healing...more or less giving the Light better healing techniques. The only reason he's not down there with Rahvin, Asmodean, and Lanfear is because he basically made shadowspawn.

 

9. Rahvin: Rahvin did well in Caemlyn, but he lost control of Morgase and was about to lose control of the throne because of the rumor that he killed her. He was on hot coals even before Rand got there and he ran from Rand like a coward. I mean, at least Asmodean fought Rand before he was defeated. Rahvin didn't even do that, he just ran and attacked from the shadows. Not cool. If it wasn't for him almost completely melding Caemlyn (easier than melding Cairhien or Tear) then he would be even lower.

 

10. Be'lal: He does well in Tear, very well. He almost manages to kill Rand if it wasn't for Moiraine, and he actually faced Rand. Overall he had a good plan that was just foiled because Moiraine is awesome. But really, he doesn't do much at all. I placed him higher than Lanfear and Asmodean just because he was smart and had a good effort.

 

11. Lanfear/Asmodean: Well, Lanfear and Asmodean fans will hate me but they're down here because they helped Rand more than hurt him. I ALMOST placed Lanfear higher because she more or less caused Moiraine's death, which hurt Rand's chances without his trusted advisor. She would have joined Rand though if he would have accepted her, and would have challenged the DO (and the Creator, which I think was a boast) if she and Rand had both of the CKs. Asmodean I believe would have eventually went over to the Light given enough time, even if it was mostly because he was forced to. I also give him an E for effort because of the scene after Lanfear shields him and he's head down in Rhuidean covered in dirt. That was a hell of a fight between him and Rand and he gave it his all.

[Mr Ares]

And of course we have Sammael who dispersed the Shaido all over the place and sowed his own seeds of chaos pretty well.

Don't forget that the original workon the Shaido, setting Couldain up with a pair of dragons, which is what led to their initial break with the other clans, was done by Asmodean. Sammael was only able to do this beacuse Asmo had already done the groundwork. And look at how much disruption was caused by something that Asmo did in passing, to cause a distraction.

 

5. Mesaana: Manipulating the Tower was pretty good (even though Elaida is more or less a dumba$$).

She helped raise Elaida, in all probability. So she put a dumbass in charge and then manipulated her.

 

8. Aginor is badass at first

Really?

After he comes back as Osan'gar he's pretty much a coward and a screwup.

Only after?

His plan to kill Rand by masquerading as Dashiva fails miserably

It wasn't a plan, so much as him deciding to join in with the attack once it started.

he's blasted away at the Cleansing after being a coward

How so? In fact, he came the closest to killing Rand. Just bad luck that Elza noticed him, thought killing a renegade Asha'man would be alright, and blasted him before he was finished weaving his balefire. This guy was a scientist, remember.

 

10. Be'lal: He almost manages to kill Rand if it wasn't for Moiraine, and he actually faced Rand.

If he wanted to kill Rand, Rand would be dead. He wanted Rand to take Callandor first.

 

11. Lanfear: She would have joined Rand though if he would have accepted her

She didn't want to join Rand, so much as she wanted Rand to join her. She wanted to be the one in charge.

[Dark Justice]

Aginor. The reason he wasnt, for so many of you, a great forsaken was that he is not a fighter or ruler.

He is a scientist. How many cool DO creatures would you have seen throughout the series without him? He was one of the biggest assets to the DO. Just not in the way youd like to see him. You want them plotting and killing and fighting. Thats not aginor. He just created badasses.

[Dark Justice]

according to wikipedia Agionor vreated: Trollocs, Draghkar, Darkhounds, gholam, and others. (Including the Worms that Rand and the others see in the Blight, in the first book. In "Lord of Chaos", Sammael mentions them later saying that they are but the larvae of an unknown Shadowspawn called the Jumara). It is estimated that in order to do this, 35 to 50 million people were killed, not including the ones fed to Trollocs.

 

Is this all true? If so, the DO would have practically nothing to fight with without aginor....

[Majsju]

according to wikipedia Agionor vreated: Trollocs, Draghkar, Darkhounds, gholam, and others. (Including the Worms that Rand and the others see in the Blight, in the first book. In "Lord of Chaos", Sammael mentions them later saying that they are but the larvae of an unknown Shadowspawn called the Jumara). It is estimated that in order to do this, 35 to 50 million people were killed, not including the ones fed to Trollocs.

 

Is this all true? If so, the DO would have practically nothing to fight with without aginor....

 

Yes, this is true.

However, had it not been Aginor, it would most likely have been someone else. After all, who is more likely to turn evil than the genious scientist? ;D

[Dark Justice]

I dont think anyone else would have done. Aginor was besides the crazy scientis incredibly gifted, stronger than most other channelers, and absolutely mad.

Your average crazy scientist could not have made Gholam & Darkhounds.  ;)

Average crazy scientists would be like Dr Frankenstein. (does his monster have a name?)  ;D

[Swigaro]

I dont think anyone else would have done. Aginor was besides the crazy scientis incredibly gifted, stronger than most other channelers, and absolutely mad.

Your average crazy scientist could not have made Gholam & Darkhounds.  ;)

Average crazy scientists would be like Dr Frankenstein. (does his monster have a name?)  ;D

 

Generally, the monster is refered to as The Monster, or Frankenstein's Monster, at least in the refrences I have seen.

 

I do agree with the basic premise.  Aginor was something special.

[DaTaimsta]

Don't forget that the original workon the Shaido, setting Couldain up with a pair of dragons, which is what led to their initial break with the other clans, was done by Asmodean. Sammael was only able to do this beacuse Asmo had already done the groundwork. And look at how much disruption was caused by something that Asmo did in passing, to cause a distraction.

Thanks for reminding me about this. I'm actually ashamed that I forgot, considering I'm on book 6 with my re-read, and FoH I just finished. If it wasn't for Asmodean...man how much more simple it would have been for Rand.

 

She helped raise Elaida, in all probability. So she put a dumbass in charge and then manipulated her.

The question remains...did she know how much of an idiot Elaida was when she put her in charge? It could be yes or no. I think it was no, which is why she tied a string to Alviarin, so she could have advantage over Elaida even if the woman turned out to surprise her with her intelligence.

 

How so? In fact, he came the closest to killing Rand. Just bad luck that Elza noticed him, thought killing a renegade Asha'man would be alright, and blasted him before he was finished weaving his balefire. This guy was a scientist, remember.

 

This is true but I'd just except more from him since he is a Forsaken. Granted, Elza had Callandor but he mine as well have thrown himself on a sword. Still, he is as you say a scientist, meaning he probably doesn't know a plethora of battle weaves like the more battle oriented Forsaken such as Sammael or Demandred.

 

If he wanted to kill Rand, Rand would be dead. He wanted Rand to take Callandor first.

 

Yes, good point here. But I was also saying that whether or not he took Callandor, Be'lal would probably have killed him. Even had he managed to kill Be'lal and grab Callandor moments after, you have Ishy waiting in the corner ready to strike him down and take it. Moiraine was the only reason he was able to concentrate on Ishy. No doubt Ishy was surprised that Moiraine had balefired Be'lal, and took his attention off Rand just long enough for him to grab Callandor and steady himself.

 

She didn't want to join Rand, so much as she wanted Rand to join her. She wanted to be the one in charge.

 

Good point but that might not have been her only motive. Yes she wanted power over Rand but she also wanted to stand above the DO and maybe the Creator WITH Rand. So she meant to have Rand become powerful enough to help her defeat the DO (which is not even guaranteed if they both fought with the pair of CK, considering what a massive power he is) and then plan to rule over him afterwards? Rand would no doubt be more powerful than her by that time.

 

However, looking at it from your point of view, Moiraine did say one of the possibilites she foresaw before pushing Lanfear through the doorway was that he'd be Lanfear's obedient lover, so most likely, you are right.

[Mr Ares]

Thanks for reminding me about this. I'm actually ashamed that I forgot, considering I'm on book 6 with my re-read, and FoH I just finished.

The event itself happened in TSR, so that makes it a little better.

 

This is true but I'd just except more from him since he is a Forsaken. Granted, Elza had Callandor but he mine as well have thrown himself on a sword. Still, he is as you say a scientist, meaning he probably doesn't know a plethora of battle weaves like the more battle oriented Forsaken such as Sammael or Demandred.

Not just weaves. A man used to fighting in the field and a man used to working in a lab? Quite different skillsets involved. I think Osan'gar did very well for himself, all things considered. The problem was that he left himself too open, and was spotted. He should have woven from cover, and then popped up to shoot his balefire.

 

Yes she wanted power over Rand but she also wanted to stand above the DO and maybe the Creator WITH Rand. Rand would no doubt be more powerful than her by that time.

Pretty ambitious. Setting herself up above the Creator, Shai'tan, and Rand, who helped put her there. But Rand's power? He would be stronger at his fullest strength, but she has a greater knowledge, and I'm guessing she planned to keep him on a pretty short lead.

 

Average crazy scientists would be like Dr Frankenstein. (does his monster have a name?)  ;D

Roger. Roger Frankensteinsmonster.