Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:14 PM, Walker012 said:

I would like to resurrect a dead thread and this seems like a place to do it!

 

 

 

Perrin was wearing armor in the preview for next week's episode and I friggin' hated it!

 

Having read the above thread my rationale for an armorless Perrin is as follows:

 

He is big. He is fast. He is perceptive to a supernatural degree (thank you, wolves). He is smart (yes I know he continually says he is slow and methodical, but there is a reason he generally says this right before someone looks at him in horror and goes "how did you catch that?"). And he has a (not controlled) supernatural ability to pull the pattern of reality to help him or hinder others.

 

And in the TV show he absolutely DOES go into a berserker rage.

 

I assume he stole the armor from a whitecloak and they are going for a "becoming what you hate and fear" plotline, which makes sense for the character and was also sorta present in the books.

 

But I still hate Perrin in armor.

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I don’t remember if it is something he ever does by the end of the book series since it’s not a detail that stick with me, so I could be wrong, but for me it just boils down to something “he wouldn’t do.”  It seems very out of character.

[Walker012]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:34 PM, Mirefox said:

I don’t remember if it is something he ever does by the end of the book series since it’s not a detail that stick with me, so I could be wrong, but for me it just boils down to something “he wouldn’t do.”  It seems very out of character.

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I wouldn't say out of character! The books really did underutilize, or at least under-emphasize, the use of armor. (Possibly cause Jordan was a Vietnam Vet and I think armor then kinda sucked and possibly cause armor is sorta silly when you're fighting people who can call down lightning on your head).

 

I think Perrin's character is calculating and deliberate enough that he would go "right. I cannot lead this battle or protect my friends if I am dead. I do not want to die. I will be in the middle of this fight where it is worst cause I am the biggest and baddest target here and Dain hates me and will target me. This armor is available and fits me. It will help me keep everyone I care about alive by serving as a distraction if nothing else. I will wear this armor."

 

I just hate it cause the vibes are off y'know?

 

Or hell maybe be doesn't wear armor and the scene was a weird dream sequence or something.

[Skipp]

There is some fascinating revelations if you happen to read Sarah Nakamura's twitter in the last day.  She was talking about a couple of scenes that people had problems with.  First being the scene with Ispan and Moggy in the dream.  Some people were unhappy with Ispan using the term forsaken instead of chosen.  Apparently Sarah had flagged that line and there were discussions about it but then the writers strike happened and the scene was already filmed by the time they got back. 

 

Similar is the healing scene with Alanna.  they had worked up a couple of version of that scene but hadn't decided fully on any and once again the writers strike prevented them from polishing it up before filming.

 

Really does suck that the show has had to deal with things like that but that is the nature of the beast I suppose.  But as some fan mentioned that scene did not bother them because baby channelers are always doing unexpected things in the books.  My head canon is that they had started to heal their mothers hangovers because they were sick of her being so "sick" all the time.

[notpropaganda73]

That's interesting, I didn't realise the writers' strike had impacted on S3, I thought it was S2 that was majorly impacted. 

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:59 PM, Walker012 said:

 

I wouldn't say out of character! The books really did underutilize, or at least under-emphasize, the use of armor. (Possibly cause Jordan was a Vietnam Vet and I think armor then kinda sucked and possibly cause armor is sorta silly when you're fighting people who can call down lightning on your head).

 

I think Perrin's character is calculating and deliberate enough that he would go "right. I cannot lead this battle or protect my friends if I am dead. I do not want to die. I will be in the middle of this fight where it is worst cause I am the biggest and baddest target here and Dain hates me and will target me. This armor is available and fits me. It will help me keep everyone I care about alive by serving as a distraction if nothing else. I will wear this armor."

 

I just hate it cause the vibes are off y'know?

 

Or hell maybe be doesn't wear armor and the scene was a weird dream sequence or something.

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I can buy that.  For me, Perrin is so reluctant to be a warrior that I feel like he would avoid armoring up, but I can see how your thought process would work, too.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 4:10 PM, notpropaganda73 said:

That's interesting, I didn't realise the writers' strike had impacted on S3, I thought it was S2 that was majorly impacted. 

 

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The SAG writers’ strike was July 14-November 9 2023.

 

Principal photography began for season 3 on April 17, 2023.  All filming wrapped March 22, 2024.

[Maximillion]

Season 1 - absolute tripe

Season 2 - good

Season 3 - really enjoying it , it has made me want to see more and hope for a season 4.

 

[Sabio]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:59 PM, Walker012 said:

 

I wouldn't say out of character! The books really did underutilize, or at least under-emphasize, the use of armor. (Possibly cause Jordan was a Vietnam Vet and I think armor then kinda sucked and possibly cause armor is sorta silly when you're fighting people who can call down lightning on your head).

 

I think Perrin's character is calculating and deliberate enough that he would go "right. I cannot lead this battle or protect my friends if I am dead. I do not want to die. I will be in the middle of this fight where it is worst cause I am the biggest and baddest target here and Dain hates me and will target me. This armor is available and fits me. It will help me keep everyone I care about alive by serving as a distraction if nothing else. I will wear this armor."

 

I just hate it cause the vibes are off y'know?

 

Or hell maybe be doesn't wear armor and the scene was a weird dream sequence or something.

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He also just recovered from being stabbed, so he might decide a little protection couldn't hurt.  In the book even Mat realized a little armor might not be such a bad thing.  But the book really doesn't go into if Perin ever puts on a few pieces before going into a fight.

[Mailman]

  On 4/4/2025 at 4:05 PM, Skipp said:

There is some fascinating revelations if you happen to read Sarah Nakamura's twitter in the last day.  She was talking about a couple of scenes that people had problems with.  First being the scene with Ispan and Moggy in the dream.  Some people were unhappy with Ispan using the term forsaken instead of chosen.  Apparently Sarah had flagged that line and there were discussions about it but then the writers strike happened and the scene was already filmed by the time they got back. 

 

 

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I picked up on that but thought it was okay as Ispan was incredibly scared at the time and a lifetime of saying the Forsaken when describing them as the chosen would have got her in incredible trouble would have been a very natural slip up to make.

 

What I did not like about it was that Moggy did not react to the slight.

 

It had to be one or the other either she makes the mistake and is called on it or she does not make the mistake at all.

Edited April 5 by Mailman

[Turin Turambar]

I kinda think they have taken ownership of the term. Ishy talking to the little girl at the social uses the term Forsaken with no apparent disgust. Although he's a smooth talking criminal so who knows.

 

Also, only Lanfear chose her own name after they joined the shadow. They don't go around demanding to be called by their old names. I don't know.

[EmreY]

Apologies for being away for so long.  Have been rewatching the end of 3.6 over and over again. 

 

Like everyone else (I think), I am much happier with S3.

[king of nowhere]

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:03 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Forums are dying man. More people are using Twitter, Bsky, Instagram, and Discord then Forums.

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Just because more people use something else, it doesn't mean something is dieing. A great thing about the internet is that there is room for niche interests. I would never be able to have a discussion on a fantasy book with people i know in person.

So, there is also room for those few who prefer forums

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/9/2025 at 7:35 AM, king of nowhere said:

Just because more people use something else, it doesn't mean something is dieing. A great thing about the internet is that there is room for niche interests. I would never be able to have a discussion on a fantasy book with people i know in person.

So, there is also room for those few who prefer forums

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Just because you enjoy discussions on web forums, doesn't mean it validates the statistics of the point you were pushing based on the activity of this website.

 

Here's the context of the reply I was replying to.

  

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:03 PM, SinisterDeath said:

  On 3/14/2025 at 9:39 AM, Mailman said:

One thing I have looked at is the traction on this site for the first episode of season 1 episode 1.

 

The first 2 days of S1E1 saw over eight pages of posts on DM

Despite the early release at this point the S3E1 thread has only 4 pages.

 

Episodes 2 and 3 of S3 have only 17 total posts across them during this first day that seems to be a fairly heavy reduction.

 

I don't know how this reflects directly on the overall picture but I don't think it is a good sign for the show.

 

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Forums are dying man. More people are using Twitter, Bsky, Instagram, and Discord then Forums.

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Forums are Dying. Dying means that every year less people actively come here and actively use it until there's no one left.

 

Forums aren't "dying" just because there's 3 billion people that use facebook, and DM only has 38,874 registered users (most of which are bots that I've balefired) and less than a 100 of them are active during the year.

 

The biggest thing DM has for it is we are one of the oldest repositories for wheel of time discussions. If you google any wheel of time "theory" or "question", chances are, you'll be linked back to this forum. Webcrawlers will never link to Discord for those kinds of discussions. Those discussions will forever be "lost in the void". Obviously Reddit is taking over a lot of those niche areas that forums used to dominate...

 

Anyways, as you said, Forums are niche... and unfortunately with the traffic we're getting on forums, there's just no meaningful statistical data that can be pulled from it... The sample size is simply too small.

 

 

[Ithillian Turambar]

We love you @SinisterDeath 💙

 

Thank you for everything you do that lets us keep hanging out here.

Edited April 9 by Ithillian Turambar

[DigificWriter]

This is going here because,there's really nowhere else to put it.

 

As the end of the season gets closer, it feels like worry and anxiety about the future of the show are on the rise, but with that comes well-intentioned pleas for fandom activism and action that, if earlier reports are accurate, are focusing on the wrong thing and ultimately may have zero relevance to or impact on any decisions about a renewal or cancellation that get made.

 

Making sure that Amazon's viewership numbers are high is good, but it only matters in a scenario where Amazon is the entity who is holding up a renewal, which is not, reportedly, what is going on here.

 

Sony Pictures Television, as the primary licensing entity for the WoT filmic rights from iWoT/Red Eagle, holds all the cards if reports are accurate and they are the entity holding up a renewal, because they do not directly benefit from high viewership numbers the way that Amazon, as the distributor, does, and if their purported reluctance is driven, as was suggested by Jon from WoT Up, by a desire to focus on the adaptational development of their own IPs, there really isn't much that Amazon can do because they can't unilaterally move forward with WoT by themselves due to the way that the licensing rights are structured.

 

I do want it to be clearly stated that I'm not telling the fandom to not take the actions that they're taking to demonstrate support for the show and their desire to see it continue, but I do feel like it's important for people to be aware that it might not end up mattering due to the scenario that we are reportedly in in terms of what may be holding up a renewal.

Edited April 9 by DigificWriter

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/9/2025 at 3:23 PM, DigificWriter said:

there really isn't much that Amazon can do

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Sure there is. Negotiate with Sony to buy out the IP. If Sony isn’t going to develop it, why let it idle. 
 

Tbh, this sounds like a shakedown by Red Eagle

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/9/2025 at 4:06 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Sure there is. Negotiate with Sony to buy out the IP. If Sony isn’t going to develop it, why let it idle. 
 

Tbh, this sounds like a shakedown by Red Eagle

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What? REE doing something shady? No way!

  Quote

Robert Jordan
I hear things now and then floating out in the air. For instance, I hear that word was floating about ComicCon in San Diego that I am displeased with Red Eagle. Too true. Too very true. In a few more months that last contract they have with anyone on God's green earth that so much as mentions my name will come to an end and we can see what happens after that. You see, among other things they forgot an old dictum of LBJ back when he was just a Congressman from Texas, when he famously, or infamously, said "Don't spit in the soup. boys. We all have to eat." Worse, Red Eagle though they could tell me they spit in the soup, or pee in it, if they wanted to and there wasn't anything I could do to stop them. You can't apologize your way out of that with me, not that they tried. There isn't enough money in the world to buy your way out of it with me. Not that they tried that either. So they get no further help from me. Once they are completely out of the picture, we'll see what happens.

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[Mirefox]

  On 4/9/2025 at 4:06 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Sure there is. Negotiate with Sony to buy out the IP. If Sony isn’t going to develop it, why let it idle. 
 

Tbh, this sounds like a shakedown by Red Eagle

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I mean, they are seemingly in a position to bargain with Amazon, who has demonstrated that they are willing to spend billions on a show.  I’m not saying they are saints but I also couldn’t fault them if they’re trying to structure a more lucrative deal.

[DigificWriter]

@Elder_Haman I should have specified that there's not much Amazon can do under the current rights licensing structure. Amazon could negotiate with iWoT/Red Eagle to secure their own licensing agreement independently of Sony Pictures Television, but that's an expansive process that would result in the production of any future seasons being delayed (possibly significantly).

 

Also, I do not believe that it is legally possible for one third-party entity to sell the licensing rights of a thing to a different third-party entity, which is why Amazon would have to negotiate its own licensing agreement with iWoT.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/9/2025 at 5:05 PM, DigificWriter said:

Also, I do not believe that it is legally possible for one third-party entity to sell the licensing rights of a thing to a different third-party entity, which is why Amazon would have to negotiate its own licensing agreement with iWoT.

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I’m sure it’s legally possible. It happens all the time. But it could well be legally complicated. 
 

  On 4/9/2025 at 5:05 PM, DigificWriter said:

Amazon could negotiate with iWoT/Red Eagle to secure their own licensing agreement

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Yes. This is why I say it feels like a shakedown. REE is probably pleased as punch right now. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/9/2025 at 5:05 PM, DigificWriter said:

@Elder_Haman I should have specified that there's not much Amazon can do under the current rights licensing structure. Amazon could negotiate with iWoT/Red Eagle to secure their own licensing agreement independently of Sony Pictures Television, but that's an expansive process that would result in the production of any future seasons being delayed (possibly significantly).

 

Also, I do not believe that it is legally possible for one third-party entity to sell the licensing rights of a thing to a different third-party entity, which is why Amazon would have to negotiate its own licensing agreement with iWoT.

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It’s legally possibly, for what it’s worth.  Some licenses can be structured to allow assumption, or a license can always be renegotiated.  But you are correct that it could take significant time.

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/9/2025 at 2:07 PM, SinisterDeath said:

 

Forums are Dying. Dying means that every year less people actively come here and actively use it until there's no one left.

 

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the biggest mistake people make in analyzing data is to draw a line and assume it will keep going forever to infinity. or, in this case, to zero.

there will always be people interested in forums, and there will also be a niche for forums. the number is shrinking right now, but it won't go to zero, it's bound to stabilize eventually. some forums are abandoned while others are born, but the general concept of "forum" will stay. or be replaced by something close enough as to make no difference.

 

that said, i agree that we can't extract meaningful statistical information from the number of posts in this forum

[DigificWriter]

I was trying to do some research on licensing agreements, and based on what I could find, I'm almost 100% sure that Sony Pictures Television's licensing agreement with iWoT/Red Eagle is non-exclusive (since there have been other WoT-related projects announced as being in development that have nothing to do with the live-action show), which means that SPT cannot just bow out of producing the live-action show and let Amazon assume the licensing rights to it.

 

Thus, it would be incumbent upon Amazon to negotiate their own licensing agreement with iWoT/Red Eagle in order to unilaterally move forward with producing the live-action series on their own. They would also likely have to negotiate their own contracts with the cast and crew of the series.

[notpropaganda73]

As "just fine" as I found ep7, the promo for episode 8 has me pumped

[Sabio]

Looks like we are getting a lot next week.  Moraine vs Lanfear, tower divide, Rand breaking the Aiel.