WoT Season 2 Episode 8: What Was Meant to Be

[Rhaze]

3 hours ago, Sabio said:

Rafe said the Ishy death was basically Ishy getting his wish to finally die.  He doesn't want to live so saw no reason to fight.  He succeeded in finally making LTT kill him. 

 

Still seemed like a very anti climatic, disappointing fight/ending.

 Yet, killing one of the forsaken doesnt give them the final death... he needs the wheel broken. The dark one controls the grave and there is no escape for Ishy except for breaking the wheel entirely. Rafe read the books, Rafe didnt understand the books. He barely scratches the surface and it is easy to see. Rafe was the wrong person to take on this series and if it makes it to season 4 it will be shocking. Looks like they will be wrapping it up in season 3 to me.

[Mailman]

7 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

She wasn't allowed to pick up something she intended to use as a weapon to harm the sul'dam. But the collar is not a weapon and she isn't using it as one.

She intended to use it to hang her that sounds like as much like a weapon as a water jug.

[DreadLord31]

We don’t have to keep fighting about that. It didn’t make sense. 
 

Who else is ready to join the Shadow? 
I’m hoping that since our male protagonists rarely can do anything — & apparently Ishy can’t take Egwene — that at least we get Sammael kicking ass with the OP in S3!! 
 

In the meantime … #teamLanfear ? 

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

What in the hell is a “covid mistake” exactly? Is it using covid as an excuse for bad writing? Because that’s sure what it sounds like. 

It was the sudden rewrite needed at the last minute to redo the last 2 episodes due to a major character walking out on the show. 

 

They had to rewrite the whole thing basically on the fly, while also trying to figure out how to film it under Covid conditions and still have the battles and fights they wanted. 
 

So you know what, I am going to give him a bit of lattitude here, 

 

5 hours ago, Sabio said:

COVID is why they had to change the Tarwins Gap fight, the actor leaving changes what they were going to have Mat do in Episode 1.  It should have zero to do with making the dagger do totally opposite things when it hits someone.  

No Barney leaving meant they didn’t have to it make small changes, but rip up the scripts they had and completely re write them, with very little notice, while also having to rewrite entire scenes due to Covid restrictions only allowing a certain number of people on set at any one time. 
 

Barney leaving also meant they had to rip up season 2 and rewrite it again from scratch based on the changes to season 1 finale. The original season 2 script followed TGH with the boys chasing the horn, the moment Matt had to stay in tar Valon Rafe and the writers had to shift the story to split the boys up. So yes, a major character dripping out for what was for him going to be some major scenes at the end did impact things and so in the moment they went with loial being stabbed, we don’t know if it was a writing decision, a decision made on the day by the director, who it was that did it and how it slipped through both Rafe and Sarah, but I will take on face value that all of the above led to the mistake, Rafe has owned the mistake by saying “it was a mistake” and is moving on without wasting effort retconning it, I am fine with that .

 

5 hours ago, Lewstherin28 said:

I am just curious about when will mat take her future wife besides him and lost his eyes. It was must before season 2 finale but not happened yet.

I hated season 1 and i love season 2 but why writers changed the book a lot.

Matt has no wife and 2 eyes in book 2 and 3, people really seem to forget who Matt is in the books, and just when his arc happens. He doesn’t get married/lose the eye until near the end so season 7 probably .

 

5 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I accept your apology and admission of defeat 😁

I mean my wife, a non book reader, got it the first time as she watched it. 
 

Egwene can now see Renna as a Damane and not her SulDamane as she can channel. As a Damane she can attach a collar herself to a channeler, it is built into the “magic”. 
 

So in collaring Renna she is actually achieving one of her purposes. 
 

Once collared, hurting Renna caused her immense pain, did you not see on her face, in her eyes, she was in agony, but was handling it far better then Renna because she knew Renna was weaker then her. She was strong. She had survived and never broken. Pain is just pain, it is a lesson she learns in the books and so this moment is going. To really play out well for when she is laughing while being beaten in the future. 
 

Like I said my wife explained all that really clearly, but if you can’t get that from that scene and all that has been laid out in the second season then maybe you should re watch because your blinkered view is clearly meaning you are not getting the details. 

[zacz1987]

3 hours ago, Guire said:

Yep a get back coach like college football. Its why I said they needed a whole crew.  Sounds like Rafe and Sarah might be overwhelmed.

Honestly I don't think Sarah is being listened to at all. She is just there for them to say they have a book fan to help with continuity but I don't think they really consult her or actually act on anything she says.

[Mirefox]

2 hours ago, Sabio said:

In the book there wasn't much about the average person in Falmes reaction.  With a battle being fought, the heroes of the horn running about, and a fight in the skies.  The dragon returning was a source of dread, so it's unlikely everyone would have been cheering.  Some would have been excited, but I would guess for the average person it would have been pretty scary moment.

That’s what I thought; they shouldn’t have been cheering, they should have been terrified.  If they were cheering for the liberators, they actually should have been cheering for the Whitecloaks since from the ground, they appeared to save the city.

 

As for then”fight in the sky” that everyone sees in the book, now it’s just a fight on a tower and it’s likely that the prominent image is of a woman fighting the “Dark One.”

[Jaysen Gore]

Way more happy with this season conclusion than season 1's conclusion. 

 

As TV goes, I'd give it a solid B, as an adaptation, maybe a C -. The issues continues to be the chainsaw they are taking to the series in order to fit it into 8 seasons of 8 episodes.  And as I once commented - the issue isn't really that they need more episodes, it's that they need more time per episode to let scenes breathe, and maybe to throw in more subplot set ups that can pay off in those extra minutes in later episodes.

 

A perfect example is the lost Ingtar subplot. Over the course of the season, you probably didn't need 5 minutes to include this really powerful sub plot, but there was just not enough time.  I get that they chose to add the Moiraine subplot (leading actress, I get it), but things just aren't hitting as impactfully as they could. I also didn't get the blink and you miss it reference of Loial getting the horn / escaping with help from I assume Lanfear. Maybe a minute of screen time, but cut for time.

 

I'm generally happy with where the season ended up, although the Avengers assemble moment as a season ending was a bit heavy handed, and I think next year will be better yet. Overall, it feels like looking a series of black and white photos from the Wheel of Time, instead of an IMAX movie, but at least this season didn't feel like a pencil drawing by a 5 year old with the wrong hand.. 

 

I know people will continue to complain about the lack of focus on the boys, but I would point out that the girls' character arcs (not their plot arcs, but their character arcs) really end mid series, with attention switching to the boys. so assuming we get the whole series, it will balance out. And even if it doesn't, I think there could be an interesting interpretation of WoT without ever getting inside Rand's head.

 

Good points

- Hopper's sacrifice was well handled, although if you watch enough stuff like this, it was telegraphed

- Rand not winning a sword fight against Turak. Given the show, this would not have been earned. And I like the 'from birth to death" nod to the books

- Mat finally gets to come through for the EF5. We're obviously not getting the Tear red frame door now, so that just leaves connecting Perrin with Faile and moving / replacing callandor from TDR.  And him being a hero of the horn saves a lot of time, even if it is a big loss to his character. 

- Time to toss the dice!

- Egwene and Renna - you have to move quickly across the feedback loop created by two a'dams, but it was beautifully acted, and showed Egwene's fortitude.

- Nynaeve doing nothing with the power. I'm all for this. They can't all be superheroes all the time.

- Hey look, Rand, a love interest! And she's not a psychotic 3,000 year old.

- Uno as a Hero of the Horn. That works for me. Although it does raise concerns if anyone else in the series gets to join the Heroes, which would be a damn shame, because those scenes are beautiful.

- Moghedien - not how I pictured her (not matronly at all), but I do love the interpretation.  And all of them are loose

 

Bad Points

- not sure I like Perrin killing Bornhald.  It creates a lot more personal motivation for what's going to happen with Dain, and we may need to get an Ahab type obsession in order to make him the villain. Otherwise, it's simply a case of "Hello...my name is Daino Bornhaldo...you killed my father....prepare to die"

- Rand not earning a sword fight with Turak. I get it, but still sucks that we got the Indiana Jones treatment

- Egwene holding off Ishamael as long as she did. 

- a novice using healing weaves on Rand. I would have worked it differently (either linking with or collaring Elayne so Nyn could lead) but oh well

- the Fire dragon. I have no idea how I would have done the banner across the sky, but this didn't work for me.

- the grey area of Moiraine's 3 oaths and blowing up a bunch of ships. In the books, I don't think the oaths to protect another sister could be stretched that far, pardon the pun. And I can follow the logic of "DO kills Rand, we all die, therefore me acting is in the extreme of trying to save my life (and as a result, everyone else in the world), but I don't know if the Oath would allow it. It's a justifiable homicide defense.

[Scarloc99]

15 minutes ago, zacz1987 said:

Honestly I don't think Sarah is being listened to at all. She is just there for them to say they have a book fan to help with continuity but I don't think they really consult her or actually act on anything she says.

I do worry if the writing team are more on the Witcher end of the scale then not, Sarah said in her q and a that getting the writing room to understand Aiel and Seanchan culture was hard, so do we have a room of non book readers being given 2nd hand info by Rafe and Sarah? 
 

You then have the individual directors who actually make the episodes, are they book lovers or are they just filming a script that is 3rd hand lore now? 

[Jaysen Gore]

3 hours ago, Guire said:

What I am seeing is that the writers and showrunners need a group of beta testers for the show at each stage instead of just one expert that can mull over their story boarding and suggest more coherent ideas to advance the plot that doesnt break later story.  I wonder where they could find this group of people? Such a giant mystery box?😆

 

While I am sympathetic, I do not support this position. Because it simply results in more camels.

 

and if you haven't heard the joke, a camel is a horse designed by committee. Art needs a singular voice - you may agree with the artist or not - but its need someone to be accountable for the soul of the vision.

[ilovezam]

1 minute ago, Scarloc99 said:

Like I said my wife explained all that really clearly, but if you can’t get that from that scene and all that has been laid out in the second season then maybe you should re watch because your blinkered view is clearly meaning you are not getting the details. 

 

This is a very bizarre post. Your wife's opinion on the scene and how it allows Egwene to achieve what she wants doesn't change the fact that it goes completely against both book and show lore.

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

She was crushed to death by debris.

 

 

Not necessarily.

I mean the major character and plot points have largely been there. As we discussed at the start of the series the dagger being so weak was a mistake in season 1 and it is as fatal as the books, Liandrin is a black ajah, Ishy died, Moiraine has now been stepped back to supporting cast member, the writers purposely removed her from the final big fight scene to shift it to become the EF5 show, Moiraine was not stilled, Ishy died,  yes there have been changes made to the prose, but the major character motivations and arcs are all still there as per the books. Moridin will probably be revealed in season 4 or 5 (if they happen).

[Mirefox]

12 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Way more happy with this season conclusion than season 1's conclusion. 

 

As TV goes, I'd give it a solid B, as an adaptation, maybe a C -. The issues continues to be the chainsaw they are taking to the series in order to fit it into 8 seasons of 8 episodes.  And as I once commented - the issue isn't really that they need more episodes, it's that they need more time per episode to let scenes breathe, and maybe to throw in more subplot set ups that can pay off in those extra minutes in later episodes.

 

A perfect example is the lost Ingtar subplot. Over the course of the season, you probably didn't need 5 minutes to include this really powerful sub plot, but there was just not enough time.  I get that they chose to add the Moiraine subplot (leading actress, I get it), but things just aren't hitting as impactfully as they could. I also didn't get the blink and you miss it reference of Loial getting the horn / escaping with help from I assume Lanfear. Maybe a minute of screen time, but cut for time.

 

I'm generally happy with where the season ended up, although the Avengers assemble moment as a season ending was a bit heavy handed, and I think next year will be better yet. Overall, it feels like looking a series of black and white photos from the Wheel of Time, instead of an IMAX movie, but at least this season didn't feel like a pencil drawing by a 5 year old with the wrong hand.. 

 

I know people will continue to complain about the lack of focus on the boys, but I would point out that the girls' character arcs (not their plot arcs, but their character arcs) really end mid series, with attention switching to the boys. so assuming we get the whole series, it will balance out. And even if it doesn't, I think there could be an interesting interpretation of WoT without ever getting inside Rand's head.

 

Good points

- Hopper's sacrifice was well handled, although if you watch enough stuff like this, it was telegraphed

- Rand not winning a sword fight against Turak. Given the show, this would not have been earned. And I like the 'from birth to death" nod to the books

- Mat finally gets to come through for the EF5. We're obviously not getting the Tear red frame door now, so that just leaves connecting Perrin with Faile and moving / replacing callandor from TDR.  And him being a hero of the horn saves a lot of time, even if it is a big loss to his character. 

- Time to toss the dice!

- Egwene and Renna - you have to move quickly across the feedback loop created by two a'dams, but it was beautifully acted, and showed Egwene's fortitude.

- Nynaeve doing nothing with the power. I'm all for this. They can't all be superheroes all the time.

- Hey look, Rand, a love interest! And she's not a psychotic 3,000 year old.

- Uno as a Hero of the Horn. That works for me. Although it does raise concerns if anyone else in the series gets to join the Heroes, which would be a damn shame, because those scenes are beautiful.

- Moghedien - not how I pictured her (not matronly at all), but I do love the interpretation.  And all of them are loose

 

Bad Points

- not sure I like Perrin killing Bornhald.  It creates a lot more personal motivation for what's going to happen with Dain, and we may need to get an Ahab type obsession in order to make him the villain. Otherwise, it's simply a case of "Hello...my name is Daino Bornhaldo...you killed my father....prepare to die"

- Rand not earning a sword fight with Turak. I get it, but still sucks that we got the Indiana Jones treatment

- Egwene holding off Ishamael as long as she did. 

- a novice using healing weaves on Rand. I would have worked it differently (either linking with or collaring Elayne so Nyn could lead) but oh well

- the Fire dragon. I have no idea how I would have done the banner across the sky, but this didn't work for me.

- the grey area of Moiraine's 3 oaths and blowing up a bunch of ships. In the books, I don't think the oaths to protect another sister could be stretched that far, pardon the pun. And I can follow the logic of "DO kills Rand, we all die, therefore me acting is in the extreme of trying to save my life (and as a result, everyone else in the world), but I don't know if the Oath would allow it. It's a justifiable homicide defense.

Yes, you bring up Rand seeing Elayne for the first time and I did like the introduction.

 

Regarding Nyn not channeling, I agree that it’s nice to see her failing, but they just showed her challenging 2 episodes ago for the dumbest reason.  I wish they had been more consistent on that front.  All that said, they got her right this episode (well, other than pushing the fletching through the wound).

 

As for Rand getting healed by a Novice, at least it was a Novice who had far more training than most Novices.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Mirefox

[Jaysen Gore]

2 hours ago, Sabio said:

In the book there wasn't much about the average person in Falmes reaction.  With a battle being fought, the heroes of the horn running about, and a fight in the skies.  The dragon returning was a source of dread, so it's unlikely everyone would have been cheering.  Some would have been excited, but I would guess for the average person it would have been pretty scary moment.

The Dragon rides forth on the sands of time. Weep for your salvation. I have to think that the Falme locals would have been terrified, and that's without getting into whether or not they were actually upset by the Seanchan.

[Scarloc99]

46 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

 

This is a very bizarre post. Your wife's opinion on the scene and how it allows Egwene to achieve what she wants doesn't change the fact that it goes completely against both book and show lore.

How does it go against show lore? Using the collar is not attacking a Sul Damane, it is collaring a potential Damane, that is not against the rules of the show as stated. Now is this a change from the books, yes, and I am happy having a debate on the pros and cons of that, personally I really don’t care as long as lore on show is maintained. 
 

My point was that my wife, who is unimpewded by “book lore” absolutely understood how a Damane could collar her Sul Damane and it not count as “attacking” her and so bypassed then jug. The whole point was that Egwene could not use the jug as a weapon, the collar is not weapon, in fact there are 2 similar arguments you could make, the first is that the collar can’t be a weapon because a Damane can’t be a Sul Damane and so it won’t be stopped, or Egwene attached the collar not fully knowing if it would work and so did not see it as a weapon. Both ways allow her to avoid the “jug” problem and make absolute perfect sense. 

 

2 hours ago, Mailman said:

She intended to use it to hang her that sounds like as much like a weapon as a water jug.

At this point Renna is no longer a Sul Damane, but also, hanging her was causing Egwene immense strain and pain, she fought through that and managed to keep up the hanging. It was not an easy thing, maybe a line of blood from her eyes or nose might have shown the strain much better. 

 

2 hours ago, Rhaze said:

 Yet, killing one of the forsaken doesnt give them the final death... he needs the wheel broken. The dark one controls the grave and there is no escape for Ishy except for breaking the wheel entirely. Rafe read the books, Rafe didnt understand the books. He barely scratches the surface and it is easy to see. Rafe was the wrong person to take on this series and if it makes it to season 4 it will be shocking. Looks like they will be wrapping it up in season 3 to me.

Rafe is not going to come out and “spoil” a pretty big reveal for non book lovers, in the books Ishy dies, Rand asks him what his punishment was for dying, and he tells him resurrection. That feeds directly into this moment, ishy has died, for a moment. 

[DreadLord31]

16 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

At this point Renna is no longer a Sul Damane, but also, hanging her was causing Egwene immense strain and pain, she fought through that and managed to keep up the hanging. It was not an easy thing, maybe a line of blood from her eyes or nose might have shown the strain much better. 

Didn’t you argue in last episodes thread that the collar could only come off if the Damane died? Or am I misremembering? That might have been @DigificWriter. Cause seems to me that was indeed the case, oh, except for that Renna could release it if she was a Damane and Suldam at the same time that Egwene was a Damane and Suldam? And there is no book comp cause that situation wasn’t possible. So whichever of you that was, you should go back on that thread and admit to all of us that we were right and you were wrong. It was exactly as we said: A) Egwene did not die & B) Egwene was released of the collar. Cause … they break their own rules whenever it suits them - just don’t think too hard about it 😉 
 

Dude. We already know you can’t be wrong … so I’m not arguing with you. It didn’t make sense.period. 
 

They frequently conveniently change their own lore rules for “pay-offs”. Like with the Damane/Suldam rules. Like with the dagger. Like with OP power scaling. Like with Uno being a Hero (which I’m now counting that as a “fake-out” death). Like with Nyn being blocked when she’s scared or angry (which she was neither this whole episode?). Like Moiraine channeling on the beach… ect. Ect. Ect. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by DreadLord31

[ilovezam]

35 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

At this point Renna is no longer a Sul Damane, but also, hanging her was causing Egwene immense strain and pain, she fought through that and managed to keep up the hanging. It was not an easy thing, maybe a line of blood from her eyes or nose might have shown the strain much better. 

 

Nobody is disputing this part. Egwene would have died herself if Renna died there and then, because Egwene was still collared by her.

 

The point is Egwene could not even pick up the pitcher to get a drink for herself because she could not help desire to use it as a weapon, even though it wasn't a weapon, and even long after she knew it wouldn't work. Just contemplating causing harm to your sul'dam is supposed to be impossible.

 

Egwene fully intended to kill Renna even by Episode 7 and she should not have been able to pick up a tool (one that is specifically designed for control and enslavement, no less) to facilitate that.

 

57 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

That’s what I thought; they shouldn’t have been cheering, they should have been terrified.  If they were cheering for the liberators, they actually should have been cheering for the Whitecloaks since from the ground, they appeared to save the city.

 

As for then”fight in the sky” that everyone sees in the book, now it’s just a fight on a tower and it’s likely that the prominent image is of a woman fighting the “Dark One.”

 

They didn't even see Rand do anything, if they saw him at all. When Rand stepped up to the edge, the civilians should have been like "who tf is this dude?"

Edited October 7, 2023 by ilovezam

[DreadLord31]

I think in anticipation of S3 we should have our own Darkfriend social on here … 

 

I really hope Lanfear wins in this turning of the wheel. Best. Character. In S2! 
 

And how creepy was Moggy? Whatever else I complain about. Sweet ending … I’ll be back for S3 & will have “I ❤️‍🔥 Lanfear” T-Shirts ordered in advance. 

 

Or “Moggy 🕸️ Me” 

Or “Sammael is my Superhero” 

Or “Graendal, spank me?” 
Or “Rahvin is 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Made you look 😉 

[CaddySedai]

[jh557]

9 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

I think in anticipation of S3 we should have our own Darkfriend social on here … 

 

I really hope Lanfear wins in this turning of the wheel. Best. Character. In S2! 
 

And how creepy was Moggy? Whatever else I complain about. Sweet ending … I’ll be back for S3 & will have “I ❤️‍🔥 Lanfear” T-Shirts ordered in advance. 

 

Or “Moggy 🕸️ Me” 

Or “Sammael is my Superhero” 

Or “Graendal, spank me?” 
Or “Rahvin is 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Made you look 😉 

 

These Forsaken so far have really made me ready to swear to the shadow. Whatever complaints I have about the show, they have killed it with the casting and acting for the Forsaken. Lanfear won this season by a mile. But Moggy is coming for the title of season 3. I love how unhinged she seems. Like Joker or Harley Quinn type villain. Sign me up for the Moggy shirt! 

 

Softly softly in the shadows.   

[Mailman]

57 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

How does it go against show lore? Using the collar is not attacking a Sul Damane, it is collaring a potential Damane, that is not against the rules of the show as stated. Now is this a change from the books, yes, and I am happy having a debate on the pros and cons of that, personally I really don’t care as long as lore on show is maintained. 
 

Because she at the time is both Damane and Sul'Damane.

The scene for Egwene is not impeded from a Sul'Damane POV.

However from a Damane POV using the collar as a means to attack Renna is clearly not allowed using the collar to hang her is clearly an attack which should have triggered the same response as her attempt to attack her with the water jug.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Mailman

[Samt]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I get the feeling they do not want to give strict rules, because they want to still improvise if the plot needs it.

I also get the feeling that this is just normal tv policy. watch the scene without thinking; does it have an emotional impact? if yes, mission accomplished. when you think 10 seconds you see a continuity error? well, people who care about those things - or about getting detailed explanations for stuff - usually read books, and don't watch much tv.

it's called segmentation of the market. you give your customers what they want to see. it affects every adaptation.

I get that feeling, too.  And it's lazy.  They should be making emotional content that is also logically consistent.  It's not either/or.  I know that not everyone cares about the continuity and consistency, but some people do.  It doesn't make sense to alienate those people.  It's not like there is a contingent that is only going to watch a show if it has plot holes and inconsistent lore.  A large team of people worked for months (or years) as a presumably full time job to make 8 hours of content.  It's not a lot to ask that they also figure out the lore and plot of the story they are telling.  It frankly baffles me that they don't have more writers that have read the books.  

 

Keeping your options open only works so long as you actually keep your options open.  Once you have contradicted yourself, you haven't kept your options open.  You just wrote yourself into a corner because you didn't want to put in the effort to figure out what you were doing.  

[Agitel]

Finishing up, just paused it, but I feel so bummed that Lan finally gets his moment but I'm sitting her wondering why a squad of random soldiers decided to just attack two people walking on the beach without any questioning.

[Mailman]

2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Finishing up, just paused it, but I feel so bummed that Lan finally gets his moment but I'm sitting her wondering why a squad of random soldiers decided to just attack two people walking on the beach without any questioning.

Totally missed that. Jeez there is so much wrong with the episode when you get down into it. Also the way the almost lined up to run at Lan in single file was funny.

 

[Agitel]

Okay, I've been parsing it a bit. I think they hit some okay beats with 8, but really much of the plotting for this episode feels like a mess to me. I get some things for cinema need to be done for effect rather than logic, but there are limits to that if it starts breaking people's suspension of disbelief.

 

I am not souring on the series like I did after season one. But I think Ep 8 is probably in the bottom half of S2 episodes for me.

 

Haven't read the topic yet. Immediately after viewing is always mixed feelings. They weren't able to avoid a significant amount of cheesiness, but I still think as a whole we have a much stronger package than season one, and I think Rafe has said that primary shooting on this season was completed before season one even aired. Here's hoping we're still on an upwards trajectory.

 

Gosh the heroes were so corny. There was a nod towards Amerasu. I'm sure that was intentional given Jordan's talk outside the books of how she was a major hero in his mythology.

 

Ishy isn't dead. 99% certain of that. It's just another illusion like he did with Mat. Really weird he'd just stand there and let Rand stab him if it wasn't. I really wanted to see Rand do more, though. I have to hope we're going to escalate to that as we go.

 

Gotta hand it to the power of friendship moment at the end. I think I'm being sarcastic with that. Not sure.

 

Gotta process it. Most of my processing for S2 has resulted in an overall positive opinion. Fresh off watching I'm still stuck on the books. Still, there were some bad choices made in it all.

 

Oh and Hopper's drawn out death was tough. Saddest moment in the series so far.

[Sabio]

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

No Barney leaving meant they didn’t have to it make small changes, but rip up the scripts they had and completely re write them, with very little notice, while also having to rewrite entire scenes due to Covid restrictions only allowing a certain number of people on set at any one time. 
 

Barney leaving also meant they had to rip up season 2 and rewrite it again from scratch based on the changes to season 1 finale. The original season 2 script followed TGH with the boys chasing the horn, the moment Matt had to stay in tar Valon Rafe and the writers had to shift the story to split the boys up. So yes, a major character dripping out for what was for him going to be some major scenes at the end did impact things and so in the moment they went with loial being stabbed, we don’t know if it was a writing decision, a decision made on the day by the director, who it was that did it and how it slipped through both Rafe and Sarah, but I will take on face value that all of the above led to the mistake, Rafe has owned the mistake by saying “it was a mistake” and is moving on without wasting effort retconning it, I am fine with that .

I simply can't buy the actor leaving as an excuse for the mistake about the, had anyone been in charge of continuity they should have caught this.  Three years have passed from COVID and the actor leaving to the season 2 airing.   The actor left before season 1 had finished filming, so there should have been minimal impact for season 2.  Do we know that the actor leaving led to them deciding to have Loial stabbed? It's unlikely Mistakes happen (like a Starbucks cup in a Game of Throne episode).  But seriously someone should have noticed the dagger got a major power boost from season 1 to season 2.  This isn't something small like he uses a dagger in his left hand one season and next season It's in his right hand.  This is it goes from a normal stab wound to death wounds plus the ability to cut through stone.  Seems hard to blame COVID for that.  They could have easily just went with it gives normal wounds but it corrupts the person holding it, instead of upping the power.  The problem is saying "COVID Mistake" is just a lazy excuse to deflect from the writing.