WoT Season 2 Episode 7: Daes Dae'Mar

[Guire]

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I feel like the writers are doing well on this. And it's been done in the context of the Moiraine, Siuan, Lan, Alanna arc that most people seem to dislike.

 

So: Moiraine has kept her secret task of finding the Dragon secret from everyone but Siuan and Lan. She was certain that her plan to take the Dragon to the Eye was the right one. She was horribly wrong and got humbled in the process. Wounded pride and the misguided notion that she had to do it alone causes her to keep her intentions secret from everyone. She never tells Siuan that she was stilled/shielded.

 

Lan: Doesn't understand what is happening, but recognizes instinctually that it isn't adding up. Moiraine isn't acting right if she'd been stilled. She's suddenly stopped trusting the two people that she has confided in across the years. He doesn't know for certain what to do about it and flounders.

 

Siuan: Already feels betrayed by Moiraine not telling her about the stilling/shielding. Recognizes that she and Moiraine miscalculated badly at the Eye. Now doesn't trust herself and flops to the opposite side of the fence, falling back on Tower law. Then, instead of really talking things through, Moiraine goes quiet and pouty. Then she breaks Rand out of his cell during an attack by the Forsaken. When she confronts Moiraine, suddenly her powers are back. Certainly Siuan thinks that Moiraine is Black at this point.

 

Alanna: Understands that both Moiraine and Lan are acting weird. Finds a Dark Prophecy in Lan's saddlebags and recognizes that Lan lied to her about why he needed to see Siuan. Why is this happening? Is Lan a darkfriend? She initiates a confrontation and forces a decision. (Alanna is smart - 3 on 1 if Lan is a baddy). 

 

All of this is similar to the poor communication that RJ weaves throughout WoT. And it's having the exact same effect on the audience - frustration and annoyance - that it did when we were reading the books. So, mission accomplished!! 

Outside of Alanna, other 3 are experienced operators and co conspirators who share intimacy and metsphysical bonds.  In books it was inexperienced leaders thrust to the front or people from different cultures who had reasons.  

 

In show it just makes Lan, Moraine, and Siuan less likable and untrustworthy.

 

I really want to see a show on Randland postal service.  I never knew the secret mission of the Brown Ajah was to provide next day mail.

[Skipp]

I'm of two minds with this episode.  Individually I loved nearly every scene, the performances etc and was quite entertained.  But as a whole the episode felt just off.  It had a tough task of following 3 really good episodes and was clearly a "Get everyone where they need to be for the finale" episode.  Didn't have an issue with any of the lore changes in general aside for some possibly sloppy execution.

 

On the plus side, I loved having a bored, "going through the motions but slightly entertained" Lanfear walking through the foregate.  Natasha O'Keefe has won my newcomer of the season award hands down.

 

My non book reading partner was very happy with the episode.  She audibly gasped at Barthanes reveal.  I absolutely love that she is  super engaged in the show as she finds starting the books far to daunting.

 

Here's to hoping they stick the landing.

 

 

[EmreY]

I like the episode overall, but found Gitara underwhelming (as it seems most people did).

 

On the subject of Falme (three or four references to the Dragon being revealed there now, I think?) do you think we'll see

 

Spoiler

a dragon's fang in the sky, the counterpart to what the Aes Sedai did in this epidsode, instead of literal fighting?

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by EmreY

[DaddyFinn]

43 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Aside from briefly killing and then reasuscitating her (Egwene), that really is the  only viable rescue option.

Where was it mentioned that damane has to be killed in order to remove the a'dam? Renna said to Egwene in E6 "The a'dam cannot be removed. Not by you." That suggests to me that there is a way to remove it safely.

 

Edit. Yes, Renna also said that "You will wear the a'dam for the rest of your life." That doesn't prove anything

Edited September 29, 2023 by DaddyFinn

[Guire]

15 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I'm of two minds with this episode.  Individually I loved nearly every scene, the performances etc and was quite entertained.  But as a whole the episode felt just off.  It had a tough task of following 3 really good episodes and was clearly a "Get everyone where they need to be for the finale" episode.  Didn't have an issue with any of the lore changes in general aside for some possibly sloppy execution.

 

On the plus side, I loved having a bored, "going through the motions but slightly entertained" Lanfear walking through the foregate.  Natasha O'Keefe has won my newcomer of the season award hands down.

 

My non book reading partner was very happy with the episode.  She audibly gasped at Barthanes reveal.  I absolutely love that she is  super engaged in the show as she finds starting the books far to daunting.

 

Here's to hoping they stick the landing.

 

 

The acting and casting choices are really making show watchable even when other parts are lacking. I wanted more Lady Anvaere.  I would have loved a longer more developed plot with her family.  Her and Moraine were a blast together.  Damn Amazon really screwed us by having such tight time and episode restrictions.  

[MarcusM]

5 hours ago, Irvyne said:

Oh geez.

What have they done to Lan...?

What have they done to Siuan...?

What have they done to Mat...?

This show, man. I swear the writers have never actually read the books. They just looked at names and general plot points and said, "Ah, we're all right. We can do better."

/ shakes head in disbelief

Something in me sees the show and thinks fan-fiction about half the time. Yes this is, somehow the WOT universe, but nah it's not the story I wanted. Then I have to pinch myself really hard and try to think positively. At least we get an adaptation for TV. It's this or nothing!

Ohh dear, I am truly trying to enjoy the ride... but it sure is very hard sometimes!

/nods in agreement

[Mirefox]

Something bugged me about Nyn collaring the Suldam - unless I missed it the collar wasn’t open; it was a solid band.  So Nyn’s plan was to throat-punch a woman with a solid band of metal and assume it would, what?  Magically go around her neck?

 

And now that I mention it, how has the collar worked in the past?  Have we seen that collar open to be put on the Damane?

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Rhaze said:

I kicked a friend out of my house for doing such a thing to my tv. At a GoT watch party, we were cooking out before the show came on and I walk in to see him with my remote changing my settings...

 

 wait a sec.. I spent a solid week going through every setting. I used a config disc, and looked up numerous configurations people used online and set several different options to switch between them... and then some dude just picks up my remote and starts setting my tv to his eyesight? I was HOT and not just from the grill.

There's a difference between someone's TV who is already set up, and a boomer's TV that is setup wrong.

[Mirefox]

So the Amyrlin now thinks Moiraine is a darkfriend.  Are they setting up a new Moiraine arc for next season where she is hunted down as black ajah?  They fabricated a story to keep her central this season so that may be what is coming next.

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Are they setting up a new Moiraine arc for next season where she is hunted down as black ajah?

This isn't honestly that far from the books. I think it is being used to really explain why Siuan is deposed. It's more compelling proof that Siuan failed in her role as Amyrlin now that she's allowed the Dragon to escape and (potentially) aided the renegade, Moiraine. Siuan will be compelled by the oaths to report what happened which will give Elaida plenty of rope.

 

Moiraine will remain disconnected from the Tower for the foreseeable future I think, towed along with Rand into the Aiel Waste.

[MarcusM]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

I feel like the writers are doing well on this. And it's been done in the context of the Moiraine, Siuan, Lan, Alanna arc that most people seem to dislike.

 

So: Moiraine has kept her secret task of finding the Dragon secret from everyone but Siuan and Lan. She was certain that her plan to take the Dragon to the Eye was the right one. She was horribly wrong and got humbled in the process. Wounded pride and the misguided notion that she had to do it alone causes her to keep her intentions secret from everyone. She never tells Siuan that she was stilled/shielded.

 

Lan: Doesn't understand what is happening, but recognizes instinctually that it isn't adding up. Moiraine isn't acting right if she'd been stilled. She's suddenly stopped trusting the two people that she has confided in across the years. He doesn't know for certain what to do about it and flounders.

 

Siuan: Already feels betrayed by Moiraine not telling her about the stilling/shielding. Recognizes that she and Moiraine miscalculated badly at the Eye. Now doesn't trust herself and flops to the opposite side of the fence, falling back on Tower law. Then, instead of really talking things through, Moiraine goes quiet and pouty. Then she breaks Rand out of his cell during an attack by the Forsaken. When she confronts Moiraine, suddenly her powers are back. Certainly Siuan thinks that Moiraine is Black at this point.

 

Alanna: Understands that both Moiraine and Lan are acting weird. Finds a Dark Prophecy in Lan's saddlebags and recognizes that Lan lied to her about why he needed to see Siuan. Why is this happening? Is Lan a darkfriend? She initiates a confrontation and forces a decision. (Alanna is smart - 3 on 1 if Lan is a baddy). 

 

All of this is similar to the poor communication that RJ weaves throughout WoT. And it's having the exact same effect on the audience - frustration and annoyance - that it did when we were reading the books. So, mission accomplished!! 

 

Best analysis and explanation I have seen in quite some time. Things make so much more sense to me now... Excellent job!

 

May I add... they apparently infused the other side of the show's feminism to build intelligence and soft capabilities in men (or maybe just warders?). Since it's mostly women that are capable to fight and destroy stuff. Men has to be equipped with more soft skills to balance things out...

 

Hence we should never have expected Lan to be as the book made him. He will support Moi with needleworks, book reading and riddle solving in addition to making regular food errands. The sword will be mostly as a decoration and never really used. I bet Egeanin will replace Lans arc in _that_ final scene.

 

Then again I hope not. I still hope they will successively tilt the power balance over the series just as in the books with Rand gaining power, claws, distrust and power corruption eventually climaxed as in the end of book 6 through to whatever book he learned that lesson...

 

If we will see that general shift in the TV show, then there is still hope for our Lan too I guess?

[Guire]

8 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This isn't honestly that far from the books. I think it is being used to really explain why Siuan is deposed. It's more compelling proof that Siuan failed in her role as Amyrlin now that she's allowed the Dragon to escape and (potentially) aided the renegade, Moiraine. Siuan will be compelled by the oaths to report what happened which will give Elaida plenty of rope.

 

Moiraine will remain disconnected from the Tower for the foreseeable future I think, towed along with Rand into the Aiel Waste.

I think that is a pretty accurate down and dirty assesment for Moraine and tower plot moving forward.  If I can get some really uncomfortable flirting with Lan and Dark side recruitment of Moraine by Lanfear maybe I can forgive Rafe for the break up plot arc.

[DigificWriter]

49 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Where was it mentioned that damane has to be killed in order to remove the a'dam?

 

In an article wherein Costume Designer Sharon Gilham showed concept art and talked about the design process behind creating the Seanchan and Damane costumes (along with costumes for Moiraine and Siuan).

 

Here's a link to Dragonmount.Com's version, with citations given to the original Nerdist article:

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by DigificWriter

[Guire]

5 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

 

Best analysis and explanation I have seen in quite some time. Things make so much more sense to me now... Excellent job!

 

May I add... they apparently infused the other side of the show's feminism to build intelligence and soft capabilities in men (or maybe just warders?). Since it's mostly women that are capable to fight and destroy stuff. Men has to be equipped with more soft skills to balance things out...

 

Hence we should never have expected Lan to be as the book made him. He will support Moi with needleworks, book reading and riddle solving in addition to making regular food errands. The sword will be mostly as a decoration and never really used. I bet Egeanin will replace Lans arc in _that_ final scene.

 

Then again I hope not. I still hope they will successively tilt the power balance over the series just as in the books with Rand gaining power, claws, distrust and power corruption eventually climaxed as in the end of book 6 through to whatever book he learned that lesson...

 

If we will see that general shift in the TV show, then there is still hope for our Lan too I guess?

Al'Lan Mandragoran the research assistant that we never knew we always needed.

[DigificWriter]

47 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Have we seen that collar open to be put on the Damane?

 

No.

 

It literally morphs itself to fit around the neck.

Edited September 29, 2023 by DigificWriter

[Mirefox]

5 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

No.

 

It literally and morphs itself to fit around the neck.

Gotcha.  So it functioned consistently with the way it works in the show.  Still, Nyn couldn’t have known that.  I’ve got a funny image in my head of Nyn punching her in the throat with it then saying “whoops, wait a second,” while she opens it and tries again.

[DaddyFinn]

21 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

In an article wherein Costume Designer Sharon Gilham showed concept art and talked about the design process behind creating the Seanchan and Damane costumes (along with costumes for Moiraine and Siuan).

 

Here's a link to Dragonmount.Com's version, with citations given to the original Nerdist article:

 

I really hope they don't have to do a fake-out death on Egwene

[Jaysen Gore]

38 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This isn't honestly that far from the books. I think it is being used to really explain why Siuan is deposed. It's more compelling proof that Siuan failed in her role as Amyrlin now that she's allowed the Dragon to escape and (potentially) aided the renegade, Moiraine. Siuan will be compelled by the oaths to report what happened which will give Elaida plenty of rope.

 

Moiraine will remain disconnected from the Tower for the foreseeable future I think, towed along with Rand into the Aiel Waste.

Since I haven't seen anything really to the contrary, I have to think:

 

Spoiler

We never see Moiraine in the tower again; while it's not out of the realm of possibility that we never see the two of them together again, I have to think there's at least 1 more meeting in season 8 before the end, because they'll want to capture that emotional impact on Moiraine.

 

[DigificWriter]

4 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I really hope they don't have to do a fake-out death on Egwene

 

Killing her and then immediately recuscitating her wouldn't be a 'fake bout' death; it would be actually killing the character, temporarily, in order to release her from the a'dam.

 

[DreadLord31]

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

Aside from briefly killing and then reasuscitating her (Egwene), that really is the  only viable rescue option.

I don’t know why you think death is the only way to remove it? That A) was not the case in the books and B) the show has consistently showed that just because a character says something/believes that it’s true, doesn’t mean that it is. 

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, DreadLord31 said:

I don’t know why you think death is the only way to remove it?

 

See the article I linked to above.

[Finnssss22]

3 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Killing her and then immediately recuscitating her wouldn't be a 'fake bout' death; it would be actually killing the character, temporarily, in order to release her from the a'dam.

 

 

If it's the same in the show as in the books and i don't see why it wouldn't be, that Sul'dam will be scared completely shitless to find out the a'dam works on her. Simply asking her how to take it off should get an immediate honest and extremely emphatic answer. 

[Jaysen Gore]

I thought this episode was just okay, an opportunity to catch their breath after the emotion of episode 6, and get everyone in place for the final showdown with HLT.  I'm glad the Lan / Moiraine split and stilling / shielding things are over.

 

My biggest complaint about this episode is aimed at Amazon - the absolute need to shove all this into one episode meant that the great moments were too obviously crammed in as fan service instead of given time to breathe. There were so many jump cuts, and the Forsaken Concussion travel agency continues to be overused instead of showing our heroes travelling and the passage of time (Does it really feel like Eqwene's been captured for months?)

 

I want to hear someone in episode 8 realize the Forsaken have travelling and what it means. 

 

From the actress's still photo, I wasn't sure I bought Lanfear as the "most beautiful woman in the world", but in the context of the show, she has been. Mainly because she's the only obvious tramp.

 

I was really upset with Mat and his tea, until I realized that that was the "flicker / flicker / flicker" scene, and not necessarily the missing memory scene. It's obvious that they're dropping portal stones / worlds of If, so that's an okay cover. Kind of dumb with a magic handwave, but I doubt it annoyed non-book fans too much.

 

Oh, it's Maiden hand talk, not maiden cheerleading. But I figure they need to differentiate themselves from the subtley of Lady Jessica's sign language.

 

Rand at least got a couple of forms recognized, making it more likely we get him / Lan training next season.

 

so, now 1 episode left this year. speculations will be posted elsewhere.

[Jaysen Gore]

16 hours ago, mogi68 said:

I really don't like what they did with Rand. On his knees/shielded and bound for half the episode, moments after "whatever happens, face it on your feet". Come on man

I think that was foreshadowing. I don't like the way it was handled either, but I do get that it will turn out very differently later on.

[DigificWriter]

5 minutes ago, Finnssss22 said:

If it's the same in the show as in the books

 

It's not.

 

Quote

and i don't see why it wouldn't be

 

Because the show's version of the a'dam's collar portion is a seamless unbroken circlet that doesn't physically open, but instead literally morphs itself to fit around the neck.

Edited September 29, 2023 by DigificWriter