Where will S2 take the WoT

[SinisterDeath]

4 hours ago, Mailman said:

I opted for the 3rd option.

Really does not feel like Rafe and the writers from the small comments I have seen are taking any of the negative feedback as serious. Also feel we are going to get an incredibly increased amount of Moiraine content that is not in the books (it could be good content but it won't be book content).

 

Rafe also does not inspire confidence he appears completely out of his depth IMO. Incredibly skinny resume to be showrunner of a series of this size.

If you think his resume's skinny, check out D&D's resume before they did Game of Thrones.

[DojoToad]

16 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

If you think his resume's skinny, check out D&D's resume before they did Game of Thrones.

Right, but some are able to succeed at the next level, others aren't.  That's why people get a chance and they either sink or swim...

 

The best worker on the factory floor gets promoted to supervisor and fails miserably.

Edited January 6, 2023 by DojoToad

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

I opted for the 3rd option.

Really does not feel like Rafe and the writers from the small comments I have seen are taking any of the negative feedback as serious. Also feel we are going to get an incredibly increased amount of Moiraine content that is not in the books (it could be good content but it won't be book content).

 

Rafe also does not inspire confidence he appears completely out of his depth IMO. Incredibly skinny resume to be showrunner of a series of this size.

This feels a lot like Gandalf in the hobbit movies, a one line explanation “I had to deal with the necromancer”, turns into what 30-40 mins of made up story. 
 

In book 2 Morraine explains she was in Falme and rescued several Aes Sedai, I can see Rafe taking that sentence and turning it into story. Which like you say might be great. But it isn’t even remotely in my list of off page stuff that needs to be seen. 

[Scarloc99]

22 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

If you think his resume's skinny, check out D&D's resume before they did Game of Thrones.

I mean that doesn’t inspire confidence. D&D have admitted their first effort at the pilot was a disaster and they got lucky with it turning into something so good. I think it’s why they stopped at season 4 ;). 

[SinisterDeath]

7 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean that doesn’t inspire confidence. D&D have admitted their first effort at the pilot was a disaster and they got lucky with it turning into something so good. I think it’s why they stopped at season 4 ;). 

What happened was, they were backed by the excellent talent at HBO, that threw a LOT of money and experts at them.

They failed upwards.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

The best worker on the factory floor gets promoted to supervisor and fails miserably.

The best worker on the factory floor never gets promoted to supervisor. It's usually the most incompetent worker that is able to politick their way up the chain that gets promoted. 

Promotion thru incompetence is less the case in show business... That industry generally promotes thru nepotism (D&D) or talent.

[Mailman]

The issue for me feels like he has gone from floor worker to CEO not supervisor. Getting a bit of experience in leadership roles at the intermediate levels would have seemed like a more natural progression.

 

This is particularly worrying since it is such a complicated job making a series of this size into a TV show.

 

6 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

The best worker on the factory floor never gets promoted to supervisor. It's usually the most incompetent worker that is able to politick their way up the chain that gets promoted. 

Promotion thru incompetence is less the case in show business... That industry generally promotes thru nepotism (D&D) or talent.

 

I am surprised that Rafe has managed to get his feet under the God of War table since he was attached to Uncharted which was hardly a well-received video game adaption.

[Scarloc99]

50 minutes ago, Mailman said:

The issue for me feels like he has gone from floor worker to CEO not supervisor. Getting a bit of experience in leadership roles at the intermediate levels would have seemed like a more natural progression.

 

This is particularly worrying since it is such a complicated job making a series of this size into a TV show.

 

 

I am surprised that Rafe has managed to get his feet under the God of War table since he was attached to Uncharted which was hardly a well-received video game adaption.

I mean Uncharted returned 400 million on a 140 million budget while cinemas were still dealing with Covid fall Out, it is also a good fun movie that isn’t a bad adaptation of the franchise. There were some “interesting” casting choices, but that isn’t on Rafe. The story and script where fun and captures the ethos of the games. 

[DojoToad]

7 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

The best worker on the factory floor never gets promoted to supervisor. It's usually the most incompetent worker that is able to politick their way up the chain that gets promoted. 

Promotion thru incompetence is less the case in show business... That industry generally promotes thru nepotism (D&D) or talent.

I’ve seen it several times, but we all have different experiences. 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

The issue for me feels like he has gone from floor worker to CEO not supervisor. Getting a bit of experience in leadership roles at the intermediate levels would have seemed like a more natural progression.

 

This is particularly worrying since it is such a complicated job making a series of this size into a TV show.

Maybe Rafe could have been a producer. Didn’t they have 19 of those listed?

[DojoToad]

31 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean Uncharted returned 400 million on a 140 million budget while cinemas were still dealing with Covid fall Out, it is also a good fun movie that isn’t a bad adaptation of the franchise. There were some “interesting” casting choices, but that isn’t on Rafe. The story and script where fun and captures the ethos of the games. 

Hardly stellar returns in normal times, but as you said still dealing with people trying to return to theaters. So given the COVID timing, this is probably excellent returns in abnormal times. 
 

Can’t comment on adaptation of the game. 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

Hardly stellar returns in normal times, but as you said still dealing with people trying to return to theaters. So given the COVID timing, this is probably excellent returns in abnormal times. 
 

Can’t comment on adaptation of the game. 

Never played the games?

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Never played the games?

No, I did not - nor did I see the movie.

[Elessar]

I voted option 3. Sadly I think Rafe will move even further from canon in season 2. As I have stated before, I wanted a faithful adaptation (not word for word but much much closer to canon than what we are getting) and I am concerned with what I am seeing and reading about the direction taken.

 

To be honest, there are so many changes in season 1 from the source material - and what seems to be the way forward - that I now (almost) consider the tv-show not Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time but an Alternate The Wheel of Time (as seen f.ex. in a parallell Portal Stone World, a New Turning of the Wheel).

 

As for seasons, I am horrifed to see some believe the tv show might only get 5 seasons (presupposing it only gets 8 episodes a season). Quite frankly I think 8 seasons is too little to do this wonderful, complex and intricate story justice - it should imo have 10 at least with 10 episodes each season - and should it get only 5 seasons it would in my opinion be a travesty (whole books would have have to be cut).

[DojoToad]

On 1/7/2023 at 6:11 AM, Elessar said:

I voted option 3. Sadly I think Rafe will move even further from canon in season 2. As I have stated before, I wanted a faithful adaptation (not word for word but much much closer to canon than what we are getting) and I am concerned with what I am seeing and reading about the direction taken.

 

To be honest, there are so many changes in season 1 from the source material - and what seems to be the way forward - that I now (almost) consider the tv-show not Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time but an Alternate The Wheel of Time (as seen f.ex. in a parallell Portal Stone World, a New Turning of the Wheel).

 

As for seasons, I am horrifed to see some believe the tv show might only get 5 seasons (presupposing it only gets 8 episodes a season). Quite frankly I think 8 seasons is too little to do this wonderful, complex and intricate story justice - it should imo have 10 at least with 10 episodes each season - and should it get only 5 seasons it would in my opinion be a travesty (whole books would have have to be cut).

I fear you may be correct.  They made a lot of changes while adapting which will require further changes.  Decisions have consequences...

[Scarloc99]

54 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I fear you may be correct.  They made a lot of changes while adapting which will require further changes.  Decisions have consequences...

Am still confused by what people consider the massive changes to canon that require further changes in the future. I don't see anything that drastically different that it moves away drastically away from the story. Rand is still the Dragon, Egwene and Nyn are still the most powerful Aes Sedai, the Tower is full of politics. Perrin speaks to Wolves, Matt, we don't know enough about, but as per the books he has come from nothing (Just reading Lord of Chaos and he specifically thinks that before he left Emonds Field the family struggled to find coin to get by) and has been affected by the dagger, Rand is Aiel I could go on. 

Yes subtle things have been tweaked for the screen and potentially some things simplified (although we don't know enough to know if that is true), but nothing has broken the world of the books to the extent that the themes and stories moving forward have to change? I understand the changes that have been made upsetting people but nothing has changed the ultimate story of Rand finding out he is the Dragon and getting to the final Battle to seal the bore. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Sir_Charrid

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Am still confused by what people consider the massive changes to canon that require further changes in the future. I don't see anything that drastically different that it moves away drastically away from the story. Rand is still the Dragon, Egwene and Nyn are still the most powerful Aes Sedai, the Tower is full of politics. Perrin speaks to Wolves, Matt, we don't know enough about, but as per the books he has come from nothing (Just reading Lord of Chaos and he specifically thinks that before he left Emonds Field the family struggled to find coin to get by) and has been affected by the dagger, Rand is Aiel I could go on. 

Yes subtle things have been tweaked for the screen and potentially some things simplified (although we don't know enough to know if that is true), but nothing has broken the world of the books to the extent that the themes and stories moving forward have to change? I understand the changes that have been made upsetting people but nothing has changed the ultimate story of Rand finding out he is the Dragon and getting to the final Battle to seal the bore. 

There's worries that they changed the fundamentals of the magic system (like removing the two halves), but the animated shorts they produced ARE cannon to the tv series, and they squash some of those rumors.

The few changes they made to the magic system so far, 
1) It looks to be even more powerful.
2) Circles no longer protect you from drawing to much and getting burnt out.
3) There's degree's of "Burn out". 

• Your eyes burn out of your skull and you die.
• You get crispy fried but don't die - Possibly still able to channel?

4) Aes Sedai (Like Moiraine) don't know about tying weaves off, because she's not actually stilled right now.
5) We have some kind of teleportation ter'angrael that could be way gates, or could be device that lets you enter tel'aran'rhiod.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Am still confused by what people consider the massive changes to canon that require further changes in the future. I don't see anything that drastically different that it moves away drastically away from the story. Rand is still the Dragon, Egwene and Nyn are still the most powerful Aes Sedai, the Tower is full of politics. Perrin speaks to Wolves, Matt, we don't know enough about, but as per the books he has come from nothing (Just reading Lord of Chaos and he specifically thinks that before he left Emonds Field the family struggled to find coin to get by) and has been affected by the dagger, Rand is Aiel I could go on. 

Yes subtle things have been tweaked for the screen and potentially some things simplified (although we don't know enough to know if that is true), but nothing has broken the world of the books to the extent that the themes and stories moving forward have to change? I understand the changes that have been made upsetting people but nothing has changed the ultimate story of Rand finding out he is the Dragon and getting to the final Battle to seal the bore. 

I didn't say anything was broken, only that there were a lot of changes that will require further changes to keep the show consistent with itself - not the books.

• Perrin was married and killed his wife
• Ogier aren't all that big - much less bigger than trollocs as in the books
• Borderlanders are barely tolerant of Aes Sedai (at least Agelmar and his group were)
• The power can be used to great affect with little to no training
• No burnout protection in a circle
• Loial was stabbed/slashed with Shadar Logoth dagger - any long term effects?
• Moiraine banished from the tower

 

Good or bad these changes are major to one extent or another and the show will need to keep the writing consistent which likely means that they stay at least as far away from the books as they did in S1.

Edited January 10, 2023 by DojoToad

[WhiteVeils]

10 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I didn't say anything was broken, only that there were a lot of changes that will require further changes to keep the show consistent with itself - not the books.

• Perrin was married and killed his wife
• Ogier aren't all that big - much less bigger than trollocs as in the books
• Borderlanders are barely tolerant of Aes Sedai (at least Agelmar and his group were)
• The power can be used to great affect with little to no training
• No burnout protection in a circle
• Loial was stabbed/slashed with Shadar Logoth dagger - any long term effects?
• Moiraine banished from the tower

 

Good or bad these changes are major to one extent or another and the show will need to keep the writing consistent which likely means that they stay at least as far away from the books as they did in S1.

 

I'd argue with two: 

• Borderlanders are barely tolerant of Aes Sedai (at least Agelmar and his group were)
• The power can be used to great affect with little to no training

Agelmar was very tolerant of Aes Sedai...his sister was one. He just thought his sister worried too much and sent for the Tower for no reason.  He was respectful and gave full hospitality once he was aware that wasn't the problem.

 

And Rand destroyed a trolloc army with little to no training, so that's in the books. As is Nynaeve healing people with no training. In the show, it's Amelisa who destroys the army, but she has many years of training.

As to the rest, those are changes.  I doubt the size of ogiers will cause any changes, but there will be other changes for the rest, yes. 

 

[DojoToad]

25 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

I'd argue with two: 

• Borderlanders are barely tolerant of Aes Sedai (at least Agelmar and his group were)
• The power can be used to great affect with little to no training

Agelmar was very tolerant of Aes Sedai...his sister was one. He just thought his sister worried too much and sent for the Tower for no reason.  He was respectful and gave full hospitality once he was aware that wasn't the problem.

 

 

Unneeded, plenty of other people in the world to be suspicious of Aes Sedai

 

25 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

And Rand destroyed a trolloc army with little to no training, so that's in the books. As is Nynaeve healing people with no training. In the show, it's Amelisa who destroys the army, but she has many years of training.

As to the rest, those are changes.  I doubt the size of ogiers will cause any changes, but there will be other changes for the rest, yes. 

 

Rand is the Dragon Reborn and ta’veren. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

17 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Loial was stabbed/slashed with Shadar Logoth dagger - any long term effects?

Not a definite change to cannon as we never see an ogier stabbed by the dagger in the books - as Shadar Logoth is an evil of men its effects on ogier may be different.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Not a definite change to cannon as we never see an ogier stabbed by the dagger in the books - as Shadar Logoth is an evil of men its effects on ogier may be different.

Maybe it will make him taller.  🤣

[Chivalry]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:23 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean Uncharted returned 400 million on a 140 million budget while cinemas were still dealing with Covid fall Out, it is also a good fun movie that isn’t a bad adaptation of the franchise. There were some “interesting” casting choices, but that isn’t on Rafe. The story and script where fun and captures the ethos of the games. 

 

I knew nothing of the franchise, was surprised to learn Rafe was involved with the movie. It was a fun flick, a throwback to earlier adventure films. Watching the film actually gave me some hope that Rafe might be able to rise to the occasion...we shall see, I guess.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Chivalry said:

 

I knew nothing of the franchise, was surprised to learn Rafe was involved with the movie. It was a fun flick, a throwback to earlier adventure films. Watching the film actually gave me some hope that Rafe might be able to rise to the occasion...we shall see, I guess.

The question as always is about input. Yes he was involved but Uncharted went through almost 10 years of developmental hell. A number of scripts written and re written, Mark Wahlberg switched from playing one lead to the other because they changed to an origin movie, was Rafe a key part of that process or ancillary? Due to union rules you don’t have to do much to get a credit on a movie, an hours work editing a page of dialogue is enough. 

[Scarloc99]

21 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Maybe it will make him taller.  🤣

Or a baller with a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six-four Impala. (Been trying to resist this pun I failed 😉 )