Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[AusLeviathan]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Something else is going to force them into the Ways

What makes you say that?

 

The entire point of using the Ways is that their time is limited enough that it's necessary to risk everyone dying. The threat to the Eye is worth that risk, having them meet Min wouldn't be worth that risk.

 

I'm fairly confident they'll just go with there being a threat to the Eye and that's how they end up at Fal Dara.

Edited December 1, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

 

Before I opened the spoiler tags I thought it'd be something big.

Well bigness can be subjective.

Lan is my favorite character. There is much depth in his honor. To me, warder to not, Lan might as well stop wearing the hadori if he thinks of TV as home. Maybe I am too married to the book character.

[KakitaOCU]

19 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

What makes you say that?

 

The entire point of using the Ways is that their time is limited enough that it's necessary to risk everyone dying. The threat to the Eye is worth that risk, having them meet Min wouldn't be worth that risk.

 

I'm fairly confident they'll just go with there being a threat to the Eye and that's how they end up at Fal Dara.

It is decided that Moraine and the EF5 cannot leave the city while the Hall Deliberates their fate, they must sneak out.

The Schism starts now instead of book 5 and Moraine must get them out.

The BA strikes and Moraine has a choice of flee or risk the EF5's lives.

Just a couple of things that could force the ways.

[Sabio]

S

19 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

What makes you say that?

 

The entire point of using the Ways is that their time is limited enough that it's necessary to risk everyone dying. The threat to the Eye is worth that risk, having them meet Min wouldn't be worth that risk.

 

I'm fairly confident they'll just go with there being a threat to the Eye and that's how they end up at Fal Dara.

Which means somehow they need to learn of the threat to the EYE.  In the book they received threats from the Tinkers (about the Maiden), Loial's story, and Ishy.  

[Elder_Haman]

14 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

What makes you say that?

 

The entire point of using the Ways is that their time is limited enough that it's necessary to risk everyone dying. The threat to the Eye is worth that risk, having them meet Min wouldn't be worth that risk.

 

I'm fairly confident they'll just go with there being a threat to the Eye and that's how they end up at Fal Dara.

The fact that we know they are using the Ways makes me say they will use the Ways.

I don't feel as if there is sufficient time remaining in the season to set up the Eye as a thing or make a threat to it credible. There's been no foreshadowing or allusions to its existence, nor to any of the things associated with it.

 

They will come up with something to drive them into the Ways - a need to escape surreptitiously, perhaps. Or an imminent threat, like the Trollocs massing at Tarwin's Gap. There are many ways to make use of the Ways necessary.

[AusLeviathan]

12 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Just a couple of things that could force the ways.

Would any of those result in them having to take the Ways to Fal Dara? Plus its far too early for the schism.

 

10 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Which means somehow they need to learn of the threat to the EYE.  In the book they received threats from the Tinkers (about the Maiden), Loial's story, and Ishy. 

Plenty of options for them to learn of the threat in Tar Valon, it's a big city.

 

10 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I don't feel as if there is sufficient time remaining in the season to set up the Eye as a thing or make a threat to it credible. There's been no foreshadowing or allusions to its existence, nor to any of the things associated with it.

They do have to go to the Eye though so they must make it a credible threat. Plus they're going to have much of episode 5 and 6 in Tar Valon, easy enough to set it up there.

 

They've got limited time in the later episodes, they're not going to over complicate it. Episode 6 they find out there's a threat to the Eye and enter the Ways, episode 7 they go through the Ways and arrive at Fal Dara (we see the beginning of the transfer of Rand's love interest from Egwene to Min), episode 8 they go into the Blight and arrive at the Eye.

 

Simple, easy, clean.

Edited December 1, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[mogi68]

EP7 blurb (now removed): Moiraine and her charges are diverted from their path by an unexpected encounter. This diversion reveals many things - Moiraine's true goal, Lan's past, the fractures that have grown in the group, and the identity of the Dragon Reborn.

 

[Ralph]

Do we know for sure they haven't cut the Eye? 

 

Episode title in IMDb is not that reliable

[Yojimbo]

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Would any of those result in them having to take the Ways to Fal Dara? Plus its far too early for the schism.

 

Plenty of options for them to learn of the threat in Tar Valon, it's a big city.

 

They do have to go to the Eye though so they must make it a credible threat. Plus they're going to have much of episode 5 and 6 in Tar Valon, easy enough to set it up there.

 

They've got limited time in the later episodes, they're not going to over complicate it. Episode 6 they find out there's a threat to the Eye and enter the Ways, episode 7 they go through the Ways and arrive at Fal Dara (we see the beginning of the transfer of Rand's love interest from Egwene to Min), episode 8 they go into the Blight and arrive at the Eye.

 

Simple, easy, clean.

If they encounter Loial he can still tell his story about the Aiel.   And there might still be time for them to contrive a way for Ila to tell Perrin the story about the Aiel.  And they could alway have one more Ba'alzamon dream where he says "the eye will not serve you".   Or Min could just be the deus ex machina and tell them they have to go to the Eye.   Not ideal, but it will get them there. 

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

They do have to go to the Eye though

I honestly don't think they do. But even if they do, it would be easy (and way easier now) to make it something they happen upon rather than something they actively seek.

1. If it's a known place, then it's hard to explain how no one has found the Horn/Banner yet.
2. But if no one knows where it is, then how are do they intend to find it?
3. "I need it real bad, so I can find it" worked well in the books. It will not work as well on screen.

Alternatively, if they are diverted in the Ways, come out in the Blight then have to find their way to Fal Dara, they can 'find' the Eye (revealing the Dragon's identity in time for Tarwin's Gap). Or Min can lead them there using her visions.

[Yojimbo]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

I honestly don't think they do. But even if they do, it would be easy (and way easier now) to make it something they happen upon rather than something they actively seek.

1. If it's a known place, then it's hard to explain how no one has found the Horn/Banner yet.
2. But if no one knows where it is, then how are do they intend to find it?
3. "I need it real bad, so I can find it" worked well in the books. It will not work as well on screen.

Alternatively, if they are diverted in the Ways, come out in the Blight then have to find their way to Fal Dara, they can 'find' the Eye (revealing the Dragon's identity in time for Tarwin's Gap). Or Min can lead them there using her visions.

If they don't go to the Eye I guess there's not meeting with Someshta.   That would be very sad.   That means someone else would have to kill Balthamel, if indeed Balthamel and Aginor are even going to be there.   Sigh.

[TheDreadReader]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

I honestly don't think they do. But even if they do, it would be easy (and way easier now) to make it something they happen upon rather than something they actively seek.

1. If it's a known place, then it's hard to explain how no one has found the Horn/Banner yet.
2. But if no one knows where it is, then how are do they intend to find it?
3. "I need it real bad, so I can find it" worked well in the books. It will not work as well on screen.

Alternatively, if they are diverted in the Ways, come out in the Blight then have to find their way to Fal Dara, they can 'find' the Eye (revealing the Dragon's identity in time for Tarwin's Gap). Or Min can lead them there using her visions.

 

I've been wondering if the crystal that Mat takes off the dead Aiel plays a part in the Eye.  Perhaps, it is a Jenn Aiel "key" to the Eye that unlocks a special dragon-mode for the eye.   Assuming they want to keep Moiraine's previous trip to it and rid themselves of the "need" factor.

 

I'm not really sure what they intend to do with the Eye though.   Mostly, I think that crystal is a chekov's gun waiting to be fired. 

 

[Sabio]

I don't see much of a need to go to Fal Dara if you aren't seeking the Eye.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I don't see much of a need to go to Fal Dara if you aren't seeking the Eye.

Min. And/or trollocs massing Tarwin's Gap.

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

I've been wondering if the crystal that Mat takes off the dead Aiel plays a part in the Eye.  Perhaps, it is a Jenn Aiel "key"

Now that's an interesting theory... 

[Sabio]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Min. And/or trollocs massing Tarwin's Gap.

True, but it seems unlikely to head there just to stop some Trollocs. You have four folks traveling with you and one might be the fate of the world.  Seems tad risky to intentionally take them to where a massive army is forming.  My guess is If they meet Loial (maybe at the White Tower), he could tell the tale and give them a guide for the ways.  There still is a chance for the Tinkers to tell their tale or Ishy, but they seem to have Ishy more of a scary thing and not talkative.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

True, but it seems unlikely to head there just to stop some Trollocs.

Unless they have convinced themselves that the battle there is truly "the Last Battle" and that the Dragon must be there. Not knowing who the Dragon is, they have to get there as fast as possible (through the Ways). IDK, it just seems like we are headed in a very different direction from the books in terms of the journey to Fal Dara.

[dwn]

Eliminating Caemlyn makes sense from a production standpoint since it's not a major location until the end of book 5. Tar Valon, however, is a location they'll need much sooner, so it makes sense to build the sets for it early on. So, if you can relocate where they meet Loial, and Elayne doesn't appear till season 2, then there's no reason for them to go to Caemlyn until much later.

 

Aside from cool foreshadowing, Min doesn't serve much purpose in the early books, and it really doesn't matter where they meet her or where she's from. Put her in Fal Dara and she can bolster whatever is driving the plot at that point. Next season she can travel to TV with Egwene and Nynaeve.

 

So they meet Loial in Tar Valon, he tells them about the Eye (information that other Aes Sedai are ignoring because of Logain), Moiraine freaks out and they use the ways to leave and get to Shienar quickly. The meet Min, she says creepy stuff, and they head for the Eye.

 

There are some rough edges but, as a back-of-the-napkin plot, it works out fairly well given limited time and budget.

[mogi68]

1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I've been wondering if the crystal that Mat takes off the dead Aiel plays a part in the Eye.  Perhaps, it is a Jenn Aiel "key" to the Eye that unlocks a special dragon-mode for the eye.   Assuming they want to keep Moiraine's previous trip to it and rid themselves of the "need" factor.

 

I'm not really sure what they intend to do with the Eye though.   Mostly, I think that crystal is a chekov's gun waiting to be fired. 

 

 

Interesting, the Eye chamber is lit with glowing crystals

 

Quote

As he looked around in wonder, he realized that the long years since the making-three thousand of them-had worked their way while no one came. Not all the crystals in the dome glowed with the same intensity. Some were stronger, some weaker; some flickered, and others were only faceted lumps to sparkle in a captured light. Had all shone, the dome would have been as bright as noonday, but they made it only late afternoon, now. Dust coated the walkway, and bits of stone and even crystal. Long years waiting, while the Wheel turned and ground.

 

[WheelofJuke]

I always felt the use of the Ways to transport at the end of EotW to the Blight and the Eye, to be one of the less great aspects of the entire series. It felt somehow forced, as if Jordan was running out of time/space to wrap up book 1...so the adventure leaps suddenly to Fal Dara. 

 

I wouldn't care one bit if the entire Blight and Eye scene weren't somehow snipped out of the tv version, considering how many changes they've made already. Though, I'd also be sad to not see Someshta  because the way his presence ties in later to the broader story's "span of ages" is easily the best part of the blight diversion, at least to me.:)

Edited December 1, 2021 by WheelofJuke
Grammar stuff

[Agitel]

Other reasons to go to the Eye: A new foretelling. Or Intel from Siuan.

[Rand the Plumber]

On 11/30/2021 at 6:29 PM, Taishar Hawaii said:

And let’s not forget it is 

  Hide contents

Elaida

pulling the strings on it all from the White Tower. Another character I hope they get right.

 

Oh yes.  That character is going to be really difficult to pull off well.  She was a pantomime villain in the end, but that only worked because her fall from grace was so well-written.  I would hazard to suggest that her character arc needs to transfer to TV essentially unchanged, or she will turn into a farce.

[2RiversFan]

23 hours ago, 2RiversFan said:

What I forgot to add to my theory above that I think we will also get Tam's fever dreams that were cut (deliberately) from Ep 1.  The two scenes would go immensely well back to back, or they could show Tam's fever dream at some other point in Ep. 8

I need to amend this, since I have just noticed on IMDB WoT that Michael McElhatton is listed as being in Ep 7 "The Dark Along the Ways".

So it seems we'll get his fever dreams at that point... my guess is that it will be simply Rand having this memory (flashback) or dreaming the memory.  If it is a waking memory, then this is when the show is bringing attention outright to him being the DR.  If it was a dreaming memory, then they'd still be able to play it as a mis-direction or simply as another candidate among the EF'ers to be the DR.

TBH I'm a bit surprised they're using it in EP 7 instead of EP 8.

[Harad the White]

A question for the AS weave experts. Did the BA weaves look normal to other AS?

[dwn]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

A question for the AS weave experts. Did the BA weaves look normal to other AS?

 

In the books there was never anything special about the BA channelling. Of course, they likely had a few secret weaves, like the other Ajahs. Not to mention a penchant (and opportunity) for using nastier stuff.