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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Ch..ch..ch..changes!


Guest Wolfbrother31
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Egwene's reason to leave the Two Rivers.

 

Thom.

 

The fade encounter. The scene could have lasted a bit longer though.

 

More focus on Logain.

 

Nynaeve & Lan. Their relationship is growing quite naturally and well.

 

 

To be fair, I have not yet seen a change I dislike. Those are just the biggest that came to mind.

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I like how they are portraying the dagger corrupting Mat. It's much scarier than in the books, where I spent most of the first and second books being like "It's your own damn fault you stole the dagger so you need to stop complaining and blaming everyone else." It's still his own damn fault but now that he's puking up slimy moving things I'm feeling a lot more empathy about his moodiness.

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Others commented on the Lan/Nynaeve and Thom changes.

I hate the change to Abell but I love the change to Mat because of it.

I actually approve of making Perrin's pivot point be that he accidentally killed someone he cared for.  That actually makes it a lot more sensible in my mind that he has such a dilemma about violence.  Though there's going to be a second shoe dropping because it'll make it harder to see what happens between him and a certain Tinker be anything other than obvious.

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Berelon being removed and Elyas being removed were fine for me.  There were alot of changes I didn't mind and understood some are meant to build to big reveals like the Black Ajah.

 

Most my change issues were things being sped up too quickly, Fight at Tam's farm, no one seeming to care the group was leaving the Two River's.  The Shadar Logoth was too fast.  Tam mostly giving a tip of his head at seeing Rand leave.  What they did to mat's dad.  A sacred pool in Edmond's Field?  I like Logain but I felt a whole episode didn't need to be spent on him.

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I really liked the changes to Mat's family and giving him a character before book 3.  Also liked the Aiel in a cage scene.  Thought the intro with Logain was spectacular and find the whole Logain plot very strong.  There are things I miss...some of which we may find later. We /know/ the Aiel war will  be coming up, for example.  I think the Laila plot made Perrin's arc stronger, along with some very good acting, but it was the weakest plot for me in the books for this story arc, so it needed the help and still isn't that strong.  I like the greater effect of the Dagger, but want Rand to have channeling sickness. He may get it.

 

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I'll 15th the interactions between Lan and Nynaeve--that was poorly telegraphed in TEotW. Actually, Lan's whole personality is fleshed out better. In TEotW there was some early instalment weirdness in that he never seemed fully on board with Moiraine's quest.

 

I think they went a bit too far, but reducing the Shire-like qualities of the TR was a good call.

 

Perrin's set-up is somewhat hamfisted, but it does tie in extremely well with his long-term character arc. Tropes like this are fine by me when they're used effectively.

 

The overall aging up (in personality) of Rand, Mat, Perrin and Egwene works well. I actually think they acted too childish for their ages in the books. This could also help contrast Egwene and Elayne in the future.

 

While it's not necessarily better, The Red Ajah summarily gentling men who can channel recently (not just 20 years ago) makes them far more immediately dangerous, and will likely tie in nicely to the Tower plot arc.

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Guest Wolfbrother31

I really like Tv Thom. I feel like #TvThom should be trending on Twitter. 

 

It never made sense to me in the books that an old Gleeman could 1v1 a Fade. This grittier, mysterious, bad-ass Thom is awesome. 

 

Absolutely love the line, "There is no man more dangerous than one who knows the past." 

 

Loved his introduction by song. 

His interaction with Matt/the Aiel. The Owyn story. 

 

#TvThom is my favorite change by far. 

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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Are we forgetting dana? She was a great character. Pity she had to die immediately.

 

This version of egwrne is much more responsible than the girl who wanted to leave to have adventures. She's still adventurous, but in a more responsible way. 

 

I also second what's being said of mat shining early, the logain arc, and the whitecloaks

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Pretty much agree with the emerging consensus. I'd say that it's not so much that I like a lot of the changes compared to the books (although the Lan / Nynaeve interactions are definitely improved) as that I think that many of them are likely to work out better in a TV context than a more literally-faithful but still compressed adaptation would have.

 

Thinking about Perrin, one of the things that was odd about the first few books was that he seemed way more cut up about learning he could talk to wolves than Rand was about learning he could channel. This is despite the fact that, until he meets Noam in the third book, Perrin has no specific reason to think that being able to talk to wolves will end in tragedy, whereas Rand has very good reason to think that he will go mad and die. At best, Perrin can point to his relative loss of control with the whitecloaks in TEOTW. But if you weren't in Perrin's head, this being some grievous sin would seem a bit odd in light of everything else that happens. 

 

I do wish it hadn't been his wife he killed, but I like how this "original sin" backstory sets up Perrin to interpret all of his future perceived errors in a similar light. 

 

So far, Aram and Mat are the two characters who (for me) are clearly outperforming their book equivalents. It gives me hope that Aram's plot climax (if the show ever gets that far) will be more interesting than in the books - there, it was an underwhelming plot device made worse by the fact that he had never been particularly interesting in the first place.

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the show-Mat is not bad and the actor is very good in portraying the struggle of a young adult from a broken family, who cares for his sisters and is willing to do anything to protect them from their miserable situation. Of course, this is completely not WoT story and I prefer book-Mat but this storyline is well- delivered both because of the actor being very good and because of the nice writing.

 

 

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speaking of aram, the tinkers are doing better in the show. in the books, they always looked like idiots. "we won't do violence. if others kill us, we don't resist. because doing violence harms... the one who does it... so... it's better to be killed?" honest, brave, self-sacrificing, but idiots.

in the show, ila gave a much better defence for the way of the leaf. "the only way to stop violence is for everyone to stop. if i can convince two people, and they can convince two people, and so on, then it will happen eventually". that's a much better perspective. a dreamer, one that is willing to sacrifice for an ideal that he'll never see fulfilled, but one with a clear and noble perspective. one with clear motivations, who follows the ideal in a coherent way, for a coherent goal. it gives justice to the tua'tahan ideals.

 

 

oh, and i was forgetting: in the books, women were mostly in charge, but they didn't go to the pubs and drink; they'd stay at home and condemn those who didn't. in the show, the women go out to the pub and drink with their men. a small change, one that not even the most nitpicky book fan complained about. but one that's much more true to the ideal of empowered women.

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Guest Wolfbrother31

You know, oddly ... Episode 4 had the most changes from the book plot wise, but I thought that it felt the most like the Wheel of Time to me. 

 

I think it's how they presented the characters and the world. 

 

Like Nyn & Lan prayers. 

And the Warders around the fire.

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5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I would agree with that. The world is beginning to feel more "lived in" to me.

 

Interestingly enough this episode seems to also include the types of changes that Brandon listed in some of his Reddit statements especially bringing some elements forward in the series. 

 

I know there is a contingent that will say that Rafe can't possibility know what he is doing but he does seem to at this point.

 

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Guest Wolfbrother31
1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

😄 On another thread, (mildish) criticism of "cuddly" warders.

 

Probably along the lines of "wokeness"?? Or simply that the Warders seem ... To soft thus far?

 

To me, it was fine ... I appreciated the subtly and it fits with Greens relaxing. 

 

I would agree though that, Lan in particular is not as B.A and stone-cold as I always imagined him to be.

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10 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Probably along the lines of "wokeness"?? Or simply that the Warders seem ... To soft thus far?

Keerect. They added something like, "I don't mean 'gay' so don't attack me.'" Funny-ish.

 

I thought they were fine, as in, real warriors. Funny might have been casting them all to look like The Rock, with bare chests.

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