Ch..ch..ch..changes!

[Katherine]

I think Perrin killing his wife is working. I LOVE Perrin, but his refusal to lead got old very quickly. 

 

I liked seeing the relationship between Kerene and her Warder. 

 

LoL I still maintain that seeing the fiercest fighting men in the known world cuddle around a fire was a little weird. It would be like watching 300 and seeing Spartans cuddle. Just not a cuddly people.  ?

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Katherine

[Arie]

The cuddling of warders reminds me a lot of the old RP days where Tower Guards would drink, chat and other shennanigans around the camp fire. Perfectly on point, and I appreciate the... casual friendship of them all.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

14 minutes ago, Katherine said:

It would be like watching 300 and seeing Spartans cuddle. Just not a cuddly people. 

 

Oh contrar ... The ancient Greeks were lovers and fighters...and very much so didnt have qualms about men touching men (male to male lack of affection is more of a Western modern thing). Alexander the Great likely died of an STD. 

 

But yes. I don't find the Warders to be as BA as I think they should be. 

[Deviations]

I think I do like Thom's grittier personality.

 

That may be about it....

 

I feel that what I'm reading in previous posts is that folks are happier with most of the characters being grittier.  I'm sorry but I like Jordan's story better.  These are barely more than kids.  They want adventure.  They don't understand the real danger...

 

I read the reasoning by the showrunner that this is a different turn of the wheel, but Jordan's turn of the wheel is my favorite series of books I've ever read.  GOT was great and THAT is a grittier story.  All in all, I think Jordan's story is head and shoulders better than GOT.  I love McCaffery.  I love Jordan's Wheel of Time more.

 

This is going to be very hard for me.  I wanted to see Jordan's story, not someone else's take as twisted as the neverborn.

[templar7]

2 minutes ago, Deviations said:

This is going to be very hard for me.  I wanted to see Jordan's story, not someone else's take as twisted as the neverborn.

I totally understand how you feel on this, but it's no less Jordan's story really. It's just a different turning if the wheel. I myself was worried that the show would mirror the books too much. Fantasy on screen is a tough sell when balancing realisim and wonder. 

I really don't think they had much choice but to go darker. 

I love the books too, but if they cast 16 year olds and capped the lexicon at Blood and ashes it would just come off like Narnia or Disney/Esq. IMO anyway. But I totally respect your opinion.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Deviations said:

I feel that what I'm reading in previous posts is that folks are happier with most of the characters being grittier.
 

I don't see them being grittier. the personalities don't register as very different for me. A bit more mature, certainly; they're no longer going to explore the cursed city just for fun, getting themselves into trouble. but the characters are the same, they just have some extra gritty in their backstories to speed up some of the trauma they face later in the books.

 

tv!Mat has a gritty family, but he's the same character - one who vehemently denies being a hero, then goes doing heroic things. the way he run around the trollocs to look for his sisters in E01 sold me on it: this was a typical mat moment. it's hard to compare with book!Mat, because book!Mat wasn't very distinctive before being healed of the dagger.

tv!Perrin is starting to face the same conflicts as book!Perrin. A nasty accident of friendly fire in his past doesn't change any of that, it's just much faster to explain in a show that can't spend hundreds of pages delving in his mind. and mind you, i don't like the wife fridging either, but i don't think it really changes perrin's character.

tv!Thom has a darker look and appearance, while book!thom was more solemn. but remember, book!Thom, before the beginning of the books, had already killed the prince consort of andor, and who knows how many other noblemen. and shortly afterwards, he'll kill the king of cahirien, plunging the country in civil war. and later, he'll conspire to cause the death of at least a couple high lords of tear. what did tv!thom do that was gritty? letting an obviously empoverished man rob a corpse, and use the experience to guilt-trip him into being better? seems the same shade of light gray that book!thom was.

 

I'm liking the show more as the time passes, because under the different trappings and different scenes I'm seeing the same characters I love. rafe said that he would change a lot from the plot, but he would try to keep the core characters, their personalities and their interactions intact. and so far, he's doing a good job of that.

[JackieQ]

I really liked the time spent on capturing Logain. Episode 4 is miles better than the other 3 so far despite being the most different from the books. I also liked the romance being built up better (Lan/Nynaeve) and getting to see the life of warders. It makes them more multidimensional to have scenes like the campfire. Honestly, warders kind of bored me in the books with how stoic they all seemed to be at all times. 

[Deviations]

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

what did tv!thom do that was gritty?

Stole a purse full of coins?

 

Where is Mat the Trickster?  I've seen no humor in him at all.

[Daenelia]

Matt has plenty of funny lines. Wot are you on about?

[fra85uk]

Wait, some characters are more or less the same but some are completely different.

Show-Thom is portrayed as a gritty cowboy-folk-singer while book-Thom is a flamboyant moustached gleeman but I really want to suspend my evaluation, to see if they are going to go full low-key Eastwood or they will be building his inteactions with nobles and the way he change his attitude.

 

Also show-Mat and book-Mat are two different persons.

Show-Mat lives in the most depressed family of a depressed town, horrible parents, two sisters living on the floor of a horrible house (and the Women Circle instead of doing diving lessons maybe maybe should do something about it), he steals for a living or accepts the charity of his best friends. He has some humour and is often sarcastic.

 

Now let's look at book-Mat.

Book Mat is son a rich horse merchant in a very nice small town, has a nice family, he is lazy, he is a prankster who does not like authority but, when it matters, he is loyal. He has some humour and is more ironic than sarcastic.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by fra85uk

[pyrusmole]

Minor Spoilers for the books incoming

The Rand-Mat subplot in episode 3 was probably my favorite change since it condensed Mat and Rand's travel so well. Here's a few things that I caught that it condensed:
 

• Rand and Mat's stay at the Grinwell farm - I'm a little bummed Else won't show up later, and to be honest that encounter was one of the funniest moments in the first book
• The encounter with Mili Skane on the way to Caemlyn - Although I have a feeling the actual character will show up later
• Introduction of Thom - My only complaint is we don't get to spend more time with him (and he never gets to meet the others).
• The tons of Mat and Rand traveling chapters. I enjoyed them in the book but they needed to be cut if we weren't going to get a 20 episode season

[DojoToad]

17 hours ago, Arie said:

The cuddling of warders reminds me a lot of the old RP days where Tower Guards would drink, chat and other shennanigans around the camp fire. Perfectly on point, and I appreciate the... casual friendship of them all.

The casual friendship was cool, but I thought the time could have been better spent maybe explaining the world a little better.  Aes Sedai explaining the dual nature of the one power.  Warders explaining the bond between themselves and their Aes Sedai rather than running Lan down - fun as that was.

 

So keep the scene but build the world - seemed a wasted opportunity.

[DojoToad]

16 hours ago, templar7 said:

I totally understand how you feel on this, but it's no less Jordan's story really. It's just a different turning if the wheel. I myself was worried that the show would mirror the books too much. Fantasy on screen is a tough sell when balancing realisim and wonder. 

I really don't think they had much choice but to go darker. 

I love the books too, but if they cast 16 year olds and capped the lexicon at Blood and ashes it would just come off like Narnia or Disney/Esq. IMO anyway. But I totally respect your opinion.

I understand that you like it, but I have a problem with the 'different turning' aspect.  I consider different turning as the next time around - not changes.  Rand is the Dragon in the books. And if he is in the show, I consider it the same turning.

 

Changes to make the characters grittier, darker, or whatever is an adaptation - not a different turning, in my opinion.

 

Having a trolloc be the Dragon would be a different turning.

[Elder_Haman]

11 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

The casual friendship was cool, but I thought the time could have been better spent maybe explaining the world a little better.  Aes Sedai explaining the dual nature of the one power.  Warders explaining the bond between themselves and their Aes Sedai rather than running Lan down - fun as that was.

But what would be the reason - in that moment- for explanations about the “dual nature of the One Power?”  Stepin’s exposition about the meaning of “Aes Sedai” flowed reasonably naturally in the conversation. But I don’t see how you discuss the duality of the OP without being extremely heavy handed. 
 

And they did talk about the bond. 

[TheDreadReader]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

I understand that you like it, but I have a problem with the 'different turning' aspect.  I consider different turning as the next time around - not changes.  Rand is the Dragon in the books. And if he is in the show, I consider it the same turning.

 

I agree with you on the "different turning" thing.  I think that it started with Brandon trying to be clever about changes but I think it was an ill-advised thing to say.   The root of the problem, to me, is that there is no clear definition of what "another turning of the wheel" looks like that we can all agree on, so we're left with thousands of different definitions of what that means depending on how you're approaching the show.

 

Personally, I'm on the show is a good adaptation side of things but I find myself getting a little frustrated with some (certainly not all) people using the phrase like it is some kind of a hole card that can be used to shut down complaints/negative takes on the show.  

 

 

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Changes to make the characters grittier, darker, or whatever is an adaptation - not a different turning, in my opinion.

 

Having a trolloc be the Dragon would be a different turning.

 

Those examples are a good definition of the phrase to me and matches how I see it.

 

 

[DojoToad]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But what would be the reason - in that moment- for explanations about the “dual nature of the One Power?”  Stepin’s exposition about the meaning of “Aes Sedai” flowed reasonably naturally in the conversation. But I don’t see how you discuss the duality of the OP without being extremely heavy handed. 
 

And they did talk about the bond. 

Moiraine could have been explaining it to Nynaeve - kind of like she did to Egwene in the books, but changes made thus far won't allow for that.  So it would have to be Nynaeve.

 

The warders could still have had fun with Lan by explaining all the surprises he had when Moiraine bonded him - like her knowing about him being with a woman and being amused by it.

 

Scene just seemed to go on too long without accomplishing much.  They've been rushing through so much but take lots of time around the campfire to tell jokes.  At least tell jokes with perhaps that explain the world.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Remember guys ... this thread is about changes that you LIKED.

DM allows all sorts of negative takes on things - plenty of criticism before the show even came out - it just should be in a different thread! 

 

 

[Deviations]

I think I actually liked the Myrddraal.  Pretty scary given that their entry scene (rider back on the trail who's cloak doesn't move with the wind) doesn't exist in the TV version.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Deviations
spelling

[DojoToad]

I liked that Thom fought better than the Warders.

20 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Remember guys ... this thread is about changes that you LIKED.

DM allows all sorts of negative takes on things - plenty of criticism before the show even came out - it just should be in a different thread! 

 

 

Sorry.

 

I liked that Thom fought better against the Fade than the Warders did against Logain's guys.  Definitely didn't see that coming.

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I liked that Thom fought better than the Warders.

Sorry.

 

I liked that Thom fought better against the Fade than the Warders did against Logain's guys.  Definitely didn't see that coming.

Did we see the warders lose?

[grayavatar]

Not trying to troll but there is very little that I can think of that I like. I do like Nynaeve in the show. Unlike most people I think Nynaeve is one of the cooler characters in the books and I think the actress is doing a good job.

 

Most of the things people have listed here made me cringe. I have had a bit of a rough return to these forums and I'm not sure what I can and can not say anymore. Am I allowed to contradict what anyone has said?

 

eg someone said "Whitecloaks are more formidable" can I say that that they look like a bunch of metrosexuals taking a stroll through the woods? Honestly, they do not look tough at all. They are wearing robes and none/little armor, their grouping is disorganised rather than marching in a column, very little weaponry. Makes me wonder how they even captured that Aes Sedai and cut her hands off. An experienced warder would go through them like a hot knife through butter.

On second look they actually are wearing white cloaks though I use the word loosely. The "cloaks" drape of one shoulder on the sword arms which is a great way for them to get tangled during any serious fight. Perhaps we should start referring to them as Whitescarves?

[grayavatar]

22 hours ago, Deviations said:

I think I actually liked the Myrddraal.  Pretty scary given that their entry scene (rider back on the trail who's cloak doesn't move with the wind) doesn't exist in the TV version.

I would like to see future footage of Fades to have them at the edge of the screen with some sort of distorting effect. Like something seen at the edge of your vision. I'm no filmmaker but having the camera focus directly on them feels wrong.

[Daenelia]

By all means: contradict, with arguments that hold!

 

So you are not intimidated by the WC, good for you! I probably would turn about and go in the opposite direction if I saw them on a path in the woods.

 

So the absence of actual cloaks is both wrong and right? It's wrong because these are not cloaks, but scarves, and at the same time the scarves are too big to be fighting in? That is not consistent ?

[grayavatar]

Imagine a scarf hanging off your right shoulder while trying to swing your sword around...

 

You might turn around at the sight of the whitecloaks, but lets say they came up against Logain's army minus Logain. With equal numbers who do you think will win?

My bet is on the experienced fighters that survived a war and not the pretty boys who hunt women that can fight back.

[Skipp]

The Whitecloak stills we got over the past year didn't always looks right to me but seeing them in motion changed my mind.  For one I think they are visually more interesting than the standard "Knights Templar" that a lot of people had imagined.  Their new look screams "Fanatic" to me.  They certainly seem more of a Light Calvary unit than the Heavy Cav in the books but it is also possible they have actual armour for actual battles.  Despite what D&D and told us people did not walk/ride around in full plate all the time.