How did the show hold up for you?

[DojoToad]

11 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

As I have mentioned before, for me the trick is separating what I wanted in my head from what the reality is.  The reality seems to be a heavily  rewritten show  which is only following the plot in the largest sense.  Yet it still is a good story and can be successfully judged on it's own merits if we can divorce it from the movie most of us created in our heads when reading the books.   Take the Dickens classic A Christmas Carol.  If you measure Scrooged  as an adaptation of the original there might  be problems.  If you look at it as a "based on" story you can truly appreciate it (or not).   Perhaps some of us are just fighting too much instead of relaxing and letting the show fill us.    I so hope the folks trying to create the show get an opportunity to finish it in line with their vision and talents.  

 

The question is does Amazon care about telling a great story or is it really only about optimizing the viewership with the lowest possible cost.  The answer to this will determine how this show  is remembered by everybody and not just the book fans as we get into the follow on seasons. Where perhaps they could invest a bit more in certain show aspects that have been thoroughly covered elsewhere.

Agreed.  I think I was able to separate books from show especially with the 'based on' premise.  There are several changes in the show that I liked.  Problem is, there are way more that I didn't like - some based on 'but the books were better', but more of it based on just bad story-telling, execution, or whatever.

 

I can never really know 100% how I'd feel from an outsider perspective because I'm not an outsider.  Been reading the books since 1993-ish.  But I think I'm honest enough with myself to realize when my complaint is based on preference versus the showrunner, writers, or whomever is doing a poor job (in my opinion).

[DojoToad]

@SinisterDeath

 

Agreed - negative tends to be more vocal/take action than positive.  At least my observations through life concur.  Good point.

[Skipp]

3 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

@SinisterDeath

 

Agreed - negative tends to be more vocal/take action than positive.  At least my observations through life concur.  Good point.

Yeah, the good ol 3 verus 33 rule that I originally heard concerning restaurants.   If you had a good experience somewhere you are likely to tell 3 people about it.  If you had a bad experience somewhere you are likely to tell 33 people about it.  Of course this was all before social media when I first heard this.

[Spiritweaver1]

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Agreed.  I think I was able to separate books from show especially with the 'based on' premise.  There are several changes in the show that I liked.  Problem is, there are way more that I didn't like - some based on 'but the books were better', but more of it based on just bad story-telling, execution, or whatever.

 

I can never really know 100% how I'd feel from an outsider perspective because I'm not an outsider.  Been reading the books since 1993-ish.  But I think I'm honest enough with myself to realize when my complaint is based on preference versus the showrunner, writers, or whomever is doing a poor job (in my opinion).

Well if you decide to hang it up, which I would hope you don't, I might suggest that you binge it at every seasons's end.  TV history is rife with shows that didn't really catch their stride until the second or even the third season.  It is the entire body of work that will get remembered not a perhaps shaky start.  One thing that gives me hope is that we seem to have a strong team of actors who have developed some chemistry thus far.  Moraine and Lan, Perrin and Ewegene.  I think Rand and Matt could have used at least one more book event from their slog from White Bridge.  In EOTW they both took turns keeping them going.   Even when Matt was clearly being eaten by the dagger Rand was the one who could reach him.  Anyway I ramble.  

[SinisterDeath]

20 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

@SinisterDeath

 

Agreed - negative tends to be more vocal/take action than positive.  At least my observations through life concur.  Good point.

Are you familiar with the brigading (review bombing) that happens in Video Games?

E.g. People get super hyped up about a product, and even though the company told everyone exactly what was going to be in the final release, people become severely disappointed with the finished (lol) product for not having content or mechanics promised 4 years prior to launch, then enmasse they give it 1 stars to try to tank the product.

 

What's happening with WoT is obviously nowhere near as bad as what happened with No Mans Sky, or Cyberpunk 2077... Though, some of those video game's that were review bombs kinda deserved it... but there was certainly an attempt made for WoT.

 

As for DM. 

Hop on over to the Entertainment Club  if you want to talk about other movies, video games, sports, TTRPGs, books, other than WoT.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well if you decide to hang it up, which I would hope you don't, I might suggest that you binge it at every seasons's end.  TV history is rife with shows that didn't really catch their stride until the second or even the third season.  It is the entire body of work that will get remembered not a perhaps shaky start.  One thing that gives me hope is that we seem to have a strong team of actors who have developed some chemistry thus far.  Moraine and Lan, Perrin and Ewegene.  I think Rand and Matt could have used at least one more book event from their slog from White Bridge.  In EOTW they both took turns keeping them going.   Even when Matt was clearly being eaten by the dagger Rand was the one who could reach him.  Anyway I ramble.  

I've been trying to tell people that if they don't like the show after the first 3, to binge the whole thing on December 24th.

Sometimes binging through the slow/bad episodes lets you appreciate it more when you get to those pivotal episodes that make the series as a whole shine.

 

15 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Yeah, the good ol 3 verus 33 rule that I originally heard concerning restaurants.   If you had a good experience somewhere you are likely to tell 3 people about it.  If you had a bad experience somewhere you are likely to tell 33 people about it.  Of course this was all before social media when I first heard this.

Still true (I think).
How often do we see negative news stories vs positive news stories?

How often do we remember that time someone wronged us, versus the number of times people did something nice for us? 

 

Hell, I rarely give restaurants positive or negative reviews... But if I give a positive it's probably because it's one of the best damned meals I've ever had. If I give a negative, it's probably because it was the worst, and had to walk out. (Never happened so far)

Though, I do find a weird pleasure in giving chains like Starbucks awful reviews by claiming they offer subpar coffee.

IRL, I often tell people.... you gotta go on the days the good cook is working, cause some days it's the best ever, and other's it's just... bleh. 

[Spiritweaver1]

25 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Other interesting Data.

Users that joined in 2021.
Positive: 40
Negative: 39

Culminative Post Count of those that registered in 2021
Positive: 2460
Negative: 768
 

Can I ask how you have counted my posts?  That will give me a feel for how you are assessing the overall post content.  As i have a certain amount of schizophrenia about the show I can appreciate that one or two negative posts may have crept in.  However I like to think most  were positive.  Always good to get a reality check in a new community about how ones intended message is being received.

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, Spiritweaver1 said:

Can I ask how you have counted my posts?  That will give me a feel for how you are assessing the overall post content.  As i have a certain amount of schizophrenia about the show I can appreciate that one or two negative posts may have crept in.  However I like to think most  were positive.  Always good to get a reality check in a new community about how ones intended message is being received.

On your user profile it lists your post count.

On that poll, I put all the members who voted (Loved/Liked) and those who voted (Disliked/Hated) into two spread sheets.

I then put the total post count for each user & join date in each respective spread sheet to obtain the numbers I got. Those numbers weren't indicative of Positive/Negative posts about the show.... I might be able to figure out a way to get that number but not for the statistics I gathered from that limited poll.

[CaddySedai]

24 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Though, I do find a weird pleasure in giving chains like Starbucks awful reviews by claiming they offer subpar coffee.

 

That is, however, a fact.

[Ralph]

6 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

That is, however, a fact.

I assume he meant that.

 

Otherwise the lawyer in me sees a libel lawsuit looming... 

[Spiritweaver1]

18 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

On your user profile it lists your post count.

On that poll, I put all the members who voted (Loved/Liked) and those who voted (Disliked/Hated) into two spread sheets.

I then put the total post count for each user & join date in each respective spread sheet to obtain the numbers I got. Those numbers weren't indicative of Positive/Negative posts about the show.... I might be able to figure out a way to get that number but not for the statistics I gathered from that limited poll.

Thanks for the clarification. 

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Ralph said:

I assume he meant that.

 

Otherwise the lawyer in me sees a libel lawsuit looming... 

Meh a random review on google maps, could be considered free speech, and at worst a form of Satire. ? 

That said, we both know a libel lawsuit to actually go anywhere kind of requires tangible losses to result from the "false" statement.

[Ralph]

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Meh a random review on google maps, could be considered free speech, and at worst a form of Satire. ? 

That said, we both know a libel lawsuit to actually go anywhere kind of requires tangible losses to result from the "false" statement.

If he would explicitly state that he said it because it amuses him, knowing it to be untrue, that is not free speech

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Ralph said:

If he would explicitly state that he said it because it amuses him, knowing it to be untrue, that is not free speech

Which is also Satire ? 
Example: Hustler Magazine v. Falwell.  
There's also entirely different levels of libel for companies/corporations versus the individual.

E.g. if me posting a review that Star Bucks coffee is subpar = Libel, then every negative review on DM where people asserted the show was bad for X reason, then those to = Libel. ? 

Where the hell is @Kivam when ya need 'em. lol

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Which is also Satire ? 
Example: Hustler Magazine v. Falwell.  
There's also entirely different levels of libel for companies/corporations versus the individual.

E.g. if me posting a review that Star Bucks coffee is subpar = Libel, then every negative review on DM where people asserted the show was bad for X reason, then those to = Libel. ? 

Where the hell is @Kivam when ya need 'em. lol

Not same

 

He didn't say it as satire, ie not intending it to be taken seriously

 

He intended it to be libellous, because it amuses him to slander them

 

But of course none of this happened, because he meant it is true, as Caddy has said ?

[Ralph]

Like when my two year old says an outright lie, then says "I was only joking." ?

Edited December 9, 2021 by Ralph

[CaddySedai]

Oh my god I've been waiting forever to say this. Ahem..

 

@SinisterDeath, @Ralph

 

Stay on Topic 

[Pandemonium]

interesting that Brandon said his favorite episodes were 6, 5, and 4.  hopefully that doesn't mean our episodes 7 & 8 are not epic.

 

 

[CaddySedai]

2 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

interesting that Brandon said his favorite episodes were 6, 5, and 4.  hopefully that doesn't mean our episodes 7 & 8 are not epic.

 

 

Could just mean Brandon likes different things than we do - as an author. 

 

Maybe 4 5 and 6 have a ton of lore building that he enjoys. We will see.

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

interesting that Brandon said his favorite episodes were 6, 5, and 4.  hopefully that doesn't mean our episodes 7 & 8 are not epic.

 

 

IFAIK, He hasn't seen those yet, only the scripts.

[Pandemonium]

33 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Could just mean Brandon likes different things than we do - as an author. 

 

Maybe 4 5 and 6 have a ton of lore building that he enjoys. We will see.

you are 100% right.  I am trying not to be too critical until I've seen the full season.  just based on the books the last 2 episodes should be fantastic

[SharSheen Veren]

I have been pretty impressed thus far.  Alot to take in.  I will however upon the 2nd re-watch put on my nit pick hat for fun.  ?  

[Reader]

6 hours ago, Reader said:

I'm not sure if I'm influenced by watching it from midnight UK time, when I know I have to be up for work at 7am.  I might save tonight's episode for the weekend.

There again, sleep is overrated, and I'm now working from home tomorrow...

[Reader]

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I wouldn't leave due to my opinions, but would for two other reasons:

• I've stopped watching the show so my opinions would become increasingly irrelevant
• I've decided that I can't enjoy the show so why waste time dwelling on it - either by watching it "because it is all we have" or by discussing it because I like to rant

I'll read about what you all think of episode 6 and go from there...

Episode 6 - confirming that the show is not the book, it's definitly something else. 7/10.

[SableSage]

I really like the show this far. Which is surprising, because when the show announcement came up and the cast was announced, I immediately prepared myself to be disappointed. (For one, I thought the ageless appearance of Aes Sedai should look more like LotR elves.) But I'm surprised that the show is actually nice.

[Guire]

10 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Here's my hypothesis.
People who hate or dislike something are often the most vocal and will purposely register at sites like Reddit/Twitter/Facebook, Fan Forums, just so they can scream into the wind about how much they hate said product.

Thus, you're seeing the numbers slide because people are more likely to register to hate on something, then to register about how much they love it. It's also impossible to say how many on either side are creating new accounts just to mess with "polls".

Now for some stats from those that voted.
 

Culminative Posts

Positive	Negative
76715	39361

 

Average Join Date

Positive	Negative
9/25/2017	12/11/2017

 

Median Post Count

Positive	Negative
61	7

 

Median Join Date

Positive Negative 9/9/2021 11/15/2021

Other interesting Data.

Users that joined in 2021.
Positive: 40
Negative: 39

 

Everyone that joined before 2021,

Positive: 28
Negative: 26

Culminative Post Count of those that registered in 2021
Positive: 2460
Negative: 768

Culminate Post Count of those that registered prior to 2021

Positive: 72824

Negative: 38593

If you were to argue that post count = Vocal, then clearly Positive is more Vocal than Negative. 

However, I'd argue that "vocal" and "active" are two different metrics.

 

People who vote "positive" are more likely to be active members on DM, where as those who vote "negatively" are most likely to register, post, and leave.

Contrary to what some may believe, their were people who voted positively that were banned, and those that voted Negatively had less then 5 banned members in their list. Several of which were spam bots.

I think the fly in your data though is old school dragonmount posters that forgot which old email they had and created new profile.  I had thousands of posts on old profile since mid 2000s.  I remember you arguing politics with Cubarey on current events board.  But now I only have a few hundred posts.  I agree though the drive by hating is the norm on any fan sight.  Currently I am not hate watching just sad watching.  It feels like bumping into an old sweetheart out with her new happy family.  Lots of conflicted feelings.