How do you think Season 1 will end?

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

This flew under my radar.

 

 

Can't notice everything ? 

[Tim]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

INTERESTING FIND
Season 2 Episode 1 has a title? 
"A Taste of Solitude"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/episodes?season=2

 

Given we know that Lanfear has been cast, I could imagine this title referring to the stretch of TGH where Lanfear effectively kidnaps Rand (among other things). Though who knows if that plot development will actually make it into the show.

[Deadsy]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

INTERESTING FIND
Season 2 Episode 1 has a title? 
"A Taste of Solitude"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/episodes?season=2

 

 

I think this is referring to Rand feeling alone at the beginning of tGH.

[Elder_Haman]

38 minutes ago, Tim said:

Given we know that Lanfear has been cast, I could imagine this title referring to the stretch of TGH where Lanfear effectively kidnaps Rand (among other things). Though who knows if that plot development will actually make it into the show.

 

We know that Lanfear has been cast? Did I miss that?

[SinisterDeath]

10 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

We know that Lanfear has been cast? Did I miss that?

It's theorized that one of the castings is Lanfear, but it's not confirmed.

[Tim]

Sorry, it can be hard to remember what has been confirmed and what is just strong fan speculation...

[mogi68]

15 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

I think this is referring to Rand feeling alone at the beginning of tGH.

 

"The man who channels stands alone"

[Elder_Haman]

8 hours ago, NightWolf said:

I cannot begin to predict how it will end but what I can tell you are all the things I'm dreading in it's wake.

i.e. all the predicatable merchadise that's coming (if not out already):

 

-WoT Risk

-WoT Funko Pop!

-WoT Etsy window decals 

-WoT face masks

-WoT Bishoujo figurines from Amazon

-WoT Puzzes and Games on Google Play

-WoT vehicle floor mats

-WoT cosplay and more cosplay

-WoT heron marked letter openers

-WoT humor quote BBQ aprons

-WoT printed map fleece blankets

-WoT PEZ dispensers at Rite-Aid

-WoT LED table lamps

-WoT Dragon Reborn drink coasters

-WoT sa'angreal "marital aids" 

-WoT Accepted striped knee socks

-WoT framed canvased quotes from Bed, Bath & Beyond

-WoT skinny pyjamas from Hot Topic

-WoT Tuatha'an yard gnomes from SkyMall

-WoT ... ugh, nevermind, I apologize.

 

Why you gotta steal my Christmas list?

[WalterKohl]

It is interesting to me that most of you screaming the loudest about the change see the very existence of trans and non-binary people as some sort of political stunt to be injected into a show and not reality...  perhaps the change was good for the very reason that it makes you confront the reality that Trans and non-binary people do exist in the real world and are not some political plot by your enemies to emasculate you...  Or more likely its all to "woke" to look at reality and you would rather just grumble into your pillow about how everything is going against you...  

[Agitel]

I do think the steps they're taking to add non-binary and trans characters may be different in this case. In many adaptations it's only a matter of representation where previously there was none. In the WOT-verse they're changing the cosmology and metaphysics that were pretty essential to Jordan's back drop and magic system. So it's a weird spot.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Agitel

[mogi68]

What if Season 1 ends with the raid on Fal Dara and the stealing of the horn?

 

It sets up a hook for season 2. They could end the final episode with Egwene knocked upside the head, and people will be like "WTF she got Ned Starked!"

 

[WalterKohl]

1 hour ago, NightWolf said:

The Jordan / Sanderson universe was heavily grounded in a stark male / female exclusive landscape that barely referenced any concepts of trans / non-binary. For many that have read and enjoyed those novels, we accepted the WoT universe for what it was.

Not for many, bit perhaps for you and those you talk to, and so you have decided that your opinion is the truth to be defended by fire and stone...  A lot of others saw the stories as a huge discussion on the roles of male and females and how arbitrarily they are given, and how in the end it didn't really matter, if any one of the EF5 died or failed in there actions the DO wins, they are all the Dragon if you really want to take it that far, but you are stuck on what is between the legs of people who don't exist so you can have a story that confirms your worldview... 

[WalterKohl]

3 hours ago, NightWolf said:

to defend our passions and convictions and we're battling it out across a plethora of battlefronts, both in real world and fantasy fiction. We are at a permanent impasse.

I find it interesting that some people see it as a battle to defend their passions and others just see it as existing and having to put up with those whose passions are that they should not exist....  You have no idea how or if the changes they made will make the TV series compatible with the messages people got rom the books because you haven't even seen it.  You have attacked it with hyperbole and "passion" based on half quotes and your pain at someone attacking your beliefs...  so while both (or all)  sides should relax and come to a better understanding, its kind of hard when one side wants the people from another side to not exist in public in any way...  

[king of nowhere]

at the end of the show egwene will marry moiraine, and they will adopt an asian child. rand mat and perrin will marry each other in a gay poliamorous trio, and they will adop a native american and an aboriginal australian children. Lan will marry nynaeve, but only after coming to terms with his non-binary nature and getting breast implants. they will adopt a transsexual autistic teenager and help hir to get gender reassignment surgery.

the dark one, who is a bigoted old white male (will be renamed "the pale one" in the adaptation) will have an angry fit at seeing all this diversity and will die of earth attack - old men must check their blood pressure, too much anger is bad for them.

@swollymammoth will then jump in front of the camera and say "see? i told you they would ruin it with their wokefest. You wouldn't believe me..."

 

cue ending credits.

 

after the ending credits there will be a stinger with @Elder_Haman wailing "goodbye, cruel show business" before jumping off a cliff

 

Season 2 will then cold open with a battle scene: hordes of angry fans torching rafe's house.

[Wassup]

The last scene will be Rand and Lan on the top of a tower in Fal Dara.  Two swallows will fly by carrying a coconut tied between them.

Rand will wonder aloud if they are Shienaran or Andoran swallows.

[swollymammoth]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:17 AM, Elder_Haman said:

And is that evidence incompatible with Rafe having a tertiary goal of promoting diversity in casting? 

Eh, maybe? But remember, proper casting and representation literally saves lives. In what world could you justify prioritizing telling a great story over saving lives? 

 

https://screenrant.com/diversity-movie-tv-representation-important/

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/10/31/eternals-marvel-lgbt-haaz-sleiman/

 

Not that those two things are mutually exclusive, of course. You can place an emphasis on diverse casting and still tell a great story. We don't know if Rafe thinks like this. He just talks like a lot of my old classmates who thought like this. 

 

When push comes to shove, if what's best for the story is to include something problematic, would Rafe do it? We don't know. But this isn't a question that we would even have to ask if he wasn't actively sowing those doubts himself. 

[swollymammoth]

Not gonna lie, but I'd actually be shocked if Lanfear doesn't replace Aginor and Balthamel at the Eye of the World (assuming that scene even happens). Seems like a natural way to condense the Forsaken and also introduce her for a greater role in Season 2. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by swollymammoth

[Rose]

45 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Eh, maybe? But remember, proper casting and representation literally saves lives. In what world could you justify prioritizing telling a great story over saving lives? 

 

https://screenrant.com/diversity-movie-tv-representation-important/

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/10/31/eternals-marvel-lgbt-haaz-sleiman/

 

Not that those two things are mutually exclusive, of course. You can place an emphasis on diverse casting and still tell a great story. We don't know if Rafe thinks like this. He just talks like a lot of my old classmates who thought like this. 

 

When push comes to shove, if what's best for the story is to include something problematic, would Rafe do it? We don't know. But this isn't a question that we would even have to ask if he wasn't actively sowing those doubts himself. 

 

You're setting up a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

[swollymammoth]

50 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

You're setting up a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

Yeah I said that. 

 

"Not that those two things are mutually exclusive, of course. You can place an emphasis on diverse casting and still tell a great story. " 

 

Unless you're talking about my last paragraph. In that case, I'll just say that life is problematic. The real world is problematic. It is inevitable that writers will find themselves in situations where the best, most interesting thing to do will also be problematic and be faced with a choice. 

 

That choice will be made based on their own values. And if you're someone who believes that problematic content harms real people in real life, then it's obvious what you're gonna do. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by swollymammoth

[Reader]

4 hours ago, Wassup said:

The last scene will be Rand and Lan on the top of a tower in Fal Dara.  Two swallows will fly by carrying a coconut tied between them.

Rand will wonder aloud if they are Shienaran or Andoran swallows.

Having just re-read the books (again) I'm fairly sure that RJ must have been a fan...

 

 

[Rose]

1 hour ago, swollymammoth said:

Yeah I said that. 

 

"Not that those two things are mutually exclusive, of course. You can place an emphasis on diverse casting and still tell a great story. " 

 

Unless you're talking about my last paragraph. In that case, I'll just say that life is problematic. The real world is problematic. It is inevitable that writers will find themselves in situations where the best, most interesting thing to do will also be problematic and be faced with a choice. 

 

That choice will be made based on their own values. And if you're someone who believes that problematic content harms real people in real life, then it's obvious what you're gonna do. 

 

I guess I just disagree that it's possible to objectively decide what the "best, most interesting choice" is in any situation. What's most interesting to you might be tired and unpleasant to someone else. It's not like there's a official measuring scale of "good storytelling" we can use to definitively decide. And one might argue that storytelling that reinforces negative stereotypes is inherently bad storytelling. So then the question of whether you need to "sacrifice" good storytelling to avoid harming people become moot.

[swollymammoth]

2 hours ago, Rose said:

And one might argue that storytelling that reinforces negative stereotypes is inherently bad storytelling.

One might argue this, but this is all part of a larger issue: Treating characters as stand-ins for their entire group rather than as individuals.

 

What do I mean by this? Well, firstly, this is objectification. I'll explain. 

 

All of fiction operates on the assumption that we, the reader, are going to accept that the story we're engaging with is real. These are real events happening to real people. But how can we treat a character as real if we're constantly talking about how they "reinforce negative stereotypes." Like, if you came across a black man in real life who could not swim (they do exist), would you chastise him for reinforcing a negative stereotype? Of course not. Because he's real. And yet if this real person appeared in fiction, he would be vilified. Why? 

 

Consider this issue with regards to sexualization. There's been so much pushback against female characters being sexualized because those characters are being viewed as artifices of their creators. However, in the right social context, a woman in the ‘real’ world can freely expose themselves, and emphasize that exposure, and have a motivation to do so, and if we agree with her motivation, we can agree with her decision. Denying that a fictional woman can be scripted and justified with such motivation is to objectify her yourself in many regards: it is to deny the character’s autonomy and subjectivity, and enforce authorial ownership when the ‘character’ exists to be separate from artifice and to be considered human.  

 

When we reduce a fictional character to a stand-in for their group (which is what this 'reinforcing negative stereotype' panic is all about), we deny them their humanity. Worse, we deny ourselves the experience of fully engaging with them as real people rather than as mere assemblages of signs. In short, we turn them into objects, pawns to be manipulated in service of our own desires. 

 

Is a story supposed to feel real, or not? Are characters supposed to feel like real people? Real life is problematic. Real life often reinforces negative stereotypes, inconvenient though that may be.  

 

Of course, the argument could me made that fiction should give us something to strive to, that it should produce in its audience behavior which will lead to desired outcomes in the real world. There's a word for this. It's Propaganda. I guess I just prefer good old fashioned entertainment. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by swollymammoth
sp

[ForsakenPotato]

Imho it's not a simple as "does one character reinforce a negative stereotype" it has more to do with the overall context. If a character is the only black character, or the only female character, or the only white character or what have you AND the majority of their role or personality or arc reinforces a negative stereotype, that is when people are likely to feel the storytelling is weak and relying on stereotypes rather than showing us a real human. This is why the character Halima might be an issue to the trans community: they are the only potentially trans character in the books, it is a punishment, they have very little character development, and they reinforce the idea that trans people are duplicitous and dangerous. If there were more trans characters and they all had different personalities and arcs, I don't think people would be nearly as upset.

 

Conversely, Elayne is a pretty blonde princess who can sometimes be conceited. If she were the only female character and her personality was reduced to that, it would be lazy and unconvincing storytelling. But she's also smart and brave and we get loads of other female characters who show that women in the WoT universe are not reducible to a single stereotype. I think when most people are hoping for representation in media, that's what they are hoping for. It's not about avoiding every stereotype, it's about showing that a huge group of people (whether it's men, asians, lgbt, old people, etc) can be a lot of different things. The reason people want that especially from a series like WoT is that there are literally thousands of named characters across whole continents, so there's room for everyone in a way that there isn't in smaller series.

[Blynch]

I'm thinking season 1 ends with the seanchan sailing in to falme the unknown threat for season 2 newbies

[Александр Чудинов]

11 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

This is why the character Halima might be an issue to the trans community: they are the only potentially trans character in the books, it is a punishment, they have very little character development, and they reinforce the idea that trans people are duplicitous and dangerous. If there were more trans characters and they all had different personalities and arcs, I don't think people would be nearly as upset.

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. So what, we can't have one character with something unusual about them? It's perfectly normal to have just one white/black/trans/burrito-lover/alien-mutant from Alpha-Centauri character in the book and make them villain. C'mon it's just one of character's characteristics, and it's fiction. You don't have to make assumptions of some "idea reinforcing" from that.

 

Following the topic, I remember, it was stated that showrunners have to condense a lot of books in much less number of seasons. So, begginning of TGH, with Fal Dara, and possible, as stated above, sheanchan arriving will probably be included in the S1 finale.