New clip about the Aes Sedai

[WhiteVeils]

This came out today, and I had a few thoughts and questions.

https://twitter.com/FANologyPV/status/1455928084230598658?s=20https://twitter.com/FANologyPV/status/1455928084230598658?s=20

I figured people would freak out, and say 'changing things for no reason'.  So I thought I'd pick out what is changed:

Moiraine says:  The world is broken. Many, many years ago, men who were born with great power believed they could cage darkness itself...the arrogance.  When they failed, the seas boiled, mountains were swallowed up, cities burned. And the women of the Aes Sedai were left to pick up the pieces. These women remembered one thing above all else. The man who brought the breaking of the world. And him, they named Dragon. Now this man has been born again. We don't know where, or to whom, if he was reborn as a girl or a boy. The only thing we know for certain is that this child is coming of age now, and we must find them. Before the dark does.

So, this does have some changes. But not necessarily as many as you think.  It means that the Aes Sedai do not know as much as they did in the original books. They don't know if the reborn dragon will destroy the world, or defeat the dark one, or both.  In the books, they /think/ that the Dragon Reborn might destroy the world, but they don't really explain why they think that.  They know just what happened on Dragonmount, everything...or we do, because we can see that it is madness and what kind of madness it is.
But in a situation like the breaking of the world, what would the survivors really remember or understand about what happened?   
None of what she says here actually changes what happened in the past, only what the current Aes Sedai think about what happened.

Why might they make these changes?
1) This way it doesn't seem like such a straight forward 'chosen one' quest. The chosen one isn't there to fight the dark one, necessarily. He /may/ or he may break the world...it makes it very clear that it could be either.
2)  Making it that it could be either explains why the Aes Sedai are so desperately eager through all the books, etc, to control and contain Rand rather than let him go about his world-saving.  They know he can destroy the world, and odds are 50/50 he will.
3) Cleansing Saidin as I understand it was not part of the prophecies...Rand learned about that from the Snakes.  There's no reason that it has to be a man, except we the readers know that it is. The last was a man, but it is terrifying if it is a man again. Being the Dragon, knowing the Dragon, is terrifying.  This can make it more terrifying.

4) Not knowing who or where means that it's easier to explain why no one found Rand yet, without all the explanations about black ajah and the searchers being killed which is the focus of New Spring.

Anyway, expecting great amounts of tears, but for myself, no problems with this change.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by WhiteVeils

[DaddyFinn]

8 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

what the Ara? word

"The arrogance"

 

I guess this puts to rest if Egwene is considered to be the DR or not.

[WhiteVeils]

Thank you! I edited my original post to fix.

 

[Ryan al'Thor]

RIP

[SinisterDeath]

This certainly clears up any doubts I had about lying Aes Sedai, and the possibility that they merged Moiraine with Verin.

 

As I've said before, if they change it so Moiraine doesn't know the dragon's gender. It doesn't change much of anything, and thus I really don't care. 

I would care, if they changed who the dragon is. But I highly doubt they will.

[swollymammoth]

Sadge

[DaddyFinn]

What does it matter if souls are not tied to gender? What will it change? Rand is still the DR.

[Ryan al'Thor]

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

What does it matter if souls are not tied to gender? What will it change? Rand is still the DR.

Is he though in this new “turning”? Also doesn’t it change the prophecy and what RJ said in interviews?

[swollymammoth]

Really can't wait to see how they handle the prophecies of the Dragon which all explicitly use male pronouns to describe the Dragon Reborn. It's gonna be the Karaethon Cycle as written by Tumblr. 

 

Just a nice reminder that this is just a high-budget fanfic. If it were an adaptation of The Wheel of Time, it might bother me, but why get mad at a fanfic? Those writers are trying their best. ?

[SinisterDeath]

15 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

What does it matter if souls are not tied to gender? What will it change? Rand is still the DR.

RJ did very specifically say that the Dragon Reborn is always male.

 

But, did they really change that certain souls are tied to gender? 

Or did they just insert a bit of unknown mystery into the innerworkings of the wheel, in a world that doesn't even really have any kind of organized religion around the metaphysics of the universe?

[swollymammoth]

11 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

What does it matter if souls are not tied to gender? What will it change? Rand is still the DR.

What does anything matter? God is dead, and our lives are but fleeting sparks tossed skyward with the rustling of the coals only to die on the chill winds. 

[Arthellion]

There's a lot of lore being destroyed it seems to make this into a Tv Adaptation.

 

I'm not sure I like this. 

 

I want to like this. I want to laugh like a kid when I watch the show. I'm just hoping beyond hope at the moment that they don't make this completely different. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Arthellion

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

What does anything matter? God is dead, and our lives are but fleeting sparks tossed skyward with the rustling of the coals only to die on the chill winds. 

Wow...  one tiny element of world building, (which we don't know they actually changed, and isn't Moiraine acting as an unreliable narrator) is enough to turn you into a depressed nihilist? 

If that's the case, I'd highly recommend finding some more hobbies. ? 

[Skipp]

On a more important note.

 

Moiraine totally rocking those suspenders.  Love it!

[swollymammoth]

59 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

the arrogance

Last one, but LOLOLOLOL 

 

So man hating comes to the Wheel of Time. Let's just ignore the actually lore of the world we're adapting in which the only reason that women were not present when Lews Therin tried to seal away the Dark One is because all the female Aes Sedai formed the Fateful Concord and refused to go with him even after their plan to use the Cheoken Kal had failed and there was no other option. The female Aes Sedai's hubris and unwillingness to work with men is directly the cause of the tainting of Saidin and the Breaking of the World.

 

But I guess having women make mistakes is too problematic an idea to fly in 2021, so we'll just rewrite it to say that everything is the men's fault. 

 

Holy crap. 

[Deadsy]

8 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

There's a lot of lore being destroyed it seems to make this into a Tv Adaptation.

 

I'm not sure I like this. 

 

I want to like this. I want to laugh like a kid when I watch the show. I'm just hoping beyond hope at the moment that they don't make this completely different. 

 

 

I haven’t seen evidence that a lot of lore is being destroyed.

 

I think your other concern is more important. I hope they keep the humor and get it right. 

[swollymammoth]

8 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

one

1+1+1+1+1 (repeat ad naseum and every one justified with "but what does it matter? and enabling the next 1. At some point, we have to say that yes, stuff matters. That was my point, made using ironic hyperbole. For anyone who didn't get it though, I've explained it in plain terms here. 

[Deadsy]

2 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Last one, but LOLOLOLOL 

 

So man hating comes to the Wheel of Time. Let's just ignore the actually lore of the world we're adapting in which the only reason that women were not present when Lews Therin tried to seal away the Dark One is because all the female Aes Sedai formed the Fateful Concord and refused to go with him even after their plan to use the Cheoken Kal had failed and there was no other option. The female Aes Sedai's hubris and unwillingness to work with men is directly the cause of the tainting of Saidin and the Breaking of the World.

 

But I guess having women make mistakes is too problematic an idea to fly in 2021, so we'll just rewrite it to say that everything is the men's fault. 

 

Holy crap. 

 

 

Uh, man hating was always in the WoT, and loads of people put the fault on men for this. The only problem with the line is it’s coming from Moiraine, who did not feel that way. 

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

So man hating comes to the Wheel of Time. Let's just ignore the actually lore of the world we're adapting in which the only reason that women were not present when Lews Therin tried to seal away the Dark One is because all the female Aes Sedai formed the Fateful Concord and refused to go with him even after their plan to use the Cheoken Kal had failed and there was no other option. The female Aes Sedai's hubris and unwillingness to work with men is directly the cause of the tainting of Saidin and the Breaking of the World

Uhh. you do realize that's society at large still blames Men for the breaking... right?

 

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

But I guess having women make mistakes is too problematic an idea to fly in 2021, so we'll just rewrite it to say that everything is the men's fault

Hmm remember that time Mat rescued Elayne, and she held it against him?

[Deadsy]

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

1+1+1+1+1 (repeat ad naseum and every one justified with "but what does it matter? and enabling the next 1. At some point, we have to say that yes, stuff matters. That was my point, made using ironic hyperbole. For anyone who didn't get it though, I've explained it in plain terms here. 

 

 

When there is a change that matters, people other than the fringe overreactors will say it matters. Most people are being rational and waiting to see how the show feels on the whole rather than nitpicking little details from clips and quotes. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Deadsy

[Maximillion]

Read this again:

 

Quote

The world is broken. Many, many years ago, men who were born with great power believed they could cage darkness itself...the arrogance.  When they failed, the seas boiled, mountains were swallowed up, cities burned. And the women of the Aes Sedai were left to pick up the pieces. These women remembered one thing above all else. The man who brought the breaking of the world. And him, they named Dragon. Now this man has been born again. We don't know where, or to whom, if he was reborn as a girl or a boy. The only thing we know for certain is that this child is coming of age now, and we must find them. Before the dark does.

 

Men are bad, only women can save us. We might have to deal with a horrible man again, but there is hope it's a woman, in which case it's all great. Yay.

 

This is not at all the history that was part of RJ story.

It reads more like a blog post from an ultra feminist.

It's the very type of lecturing I was afraid of when I read about Rafe's motivations and pitch for the series.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Maximillion

[MasterAblar]

11 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Last one, but LOLOLOLOL 

 

So man hating comes to the Wheel of Time. Let's just ignore the actually lore of the world we're adapting in which the only reason that women were not present when Lews Therin tried to seal away the Dark One is because all the female Aes Sedai formed the Fateful Concord and refused to go with him even after their plan to use the Cheoken Kal had failed and there was no other option. The female Aes Sedai's hubris and unwillingness to work with men is directly the cause of the tainting of Saidin and the Breaking of the World.

 

But I guess having women make mistakes is too problematic an idea to fly in 2021, so we'll just rewrite it to say that everything is the men's fault. 

 

Holy crap. 

 

You realize the Aes Sedai are super arrogant themselves and would totally call LTT and the hundered companions arrogant whether they actually were or not right?

 

All that is is Aes Sedai propaganda. Thats a good thing. It means they're actually getting the Aes Sedai being stuck up and sure of themselves correct.

[swollymammoth]

2 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Uh, man hating was always in the WoT, and loads of people put the fault on men for this. The only problem with the line is it’s coming from Moiraine, who did not feel that way. 

I love the man hating in WoT. It's awesome. But WoT always held its men and women equally accountable. That's kind of a huge theme of the series. Forgive me if I don't trust these writers who've been so outspoken about their own beliefs to do the same. 

 

Keep in mind that this is promotional material. This isn't Moiraine the character talking, this is the writers telling the audience what to expect. People who hear this are supposed to think, "Wow, a world where men screwed everything up and now women are in charge reflects my own biases right back at me." It's pandering, and pandering is always obnoxious. 

[Deadsy]

2 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Read this again:

 

 

This is not at all the history that was part of RJ story.

It reads more like a blog post from an ultra feminist.

It's the very type of lecturing I was afraid of when I read about Rafe's motivations and pitch for the series.

 

 

 

 

It is an Aes Sedai take on that history. I’d prefer it not be in Moiraine’s voice as she isn’t as biased and ignorant as AS in general, but it’s clear Moiraine knows the Dragon reincarnated must face the Dark One. 

[swollymammoth]

9 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

When there is a change that matters, people other than the fringe overreactors will say it matters. Most people are being rational and waiting to see how the show feels on the whole rather than nitpicking little details from clips and quotes. 

100 things that don't matter results in a change that matters