Romantic relationships

[Skipp]

30 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

 

No thanks. If WOTTV starts going down this road, I'm done. No offense intended (and I realize I'm about to lose even more of @SinisterDeath's respect ?), but I have a low tolerance for Woke, and this would be several bridges too far for me. This would be, like, Wheel of Woke.

 

The easiest and, frankly, best solution is to have Rand work his way through all three, but ultimately settle on one. Elayne is an early dalliance until Rand figures out she's more interested in politics/power (hmmm... where does that seem familiar?), and Rand wavers between Min and Aviendha before ultimately settling on Min or one of them gets killed off.

While I don't agree with Elder Haman's idea for Elayne marrying Rand to be purely political but how is a political marriage of convenience a  woke concept? Political marriages are as old as time itself.

[Beidomon]

11 minutes ago, Skipp said:

While I don't agree with Elder Haman's idea for Elayne marrying Rand to be purely political but how is a political marriage of convenience a  woke concept? Political marriages are as old as time itself.

Agreed. I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to the idea “retconning” the girls’ sexuality and all that stuff.

[SinisterDeath]

16 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Agreed. I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to the idea “retconning” the girls’ sexuality and all that stuff.

"College Girl on Girl" stuff is hardly Woke, and I highly doubt Rafe is going to have Min peg Rand, regardless how many letters he gets from Fans demanding it.

Also, are ya'll forgetting about Elayne's Red Rod Ter'Angrael, Aviendha & Birgette drinking themselves under a table while Elayne and Rand get frisky? The infamous Bathtub scene? "Pillow Friends", Plethora of spankings?

There's plenty of wiggle for two girls kissing between all the other fetishes RJ wrote about.

[Guire]

6 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

"College Girl on Girl" stuff is hardly Woke, and I highly doubt Rafe is going to have Min peg Rand, regardless how many letters he gets from Fans demanding it.

Also, are ya'll forgetting about Elayne's Red Rod Ter'Angrael, Aviendha & Birgette drinking themselves under a table while Elayne and Rand get frisky? The infamous Bathtub scene? "Pillow Friends", Plethora of spankings?

There's plenty of wiggle for two girls kissing between all the other fetishes RJ wrote about.

Once again that TV 14 during some episodes is going to be tough to keep.

[Skipp]

27 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Agreed. I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to the idea “retconning” the girls’ sexuality and all that stuff.

My mistake.  But there is plenty of subtext to support an Elayne/ Aveindha relationship. Wouldn't surprise me if they added it to make the relationship more poly-amorous and less harem.

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Guire said:

Once again that TV 14 during some episodes is going to be tough to keep.

Quote

TV-14 is the equivalent to the MPAA film rating PG-13. Content may be unsuitable for minors younger than 14 years of age. This rating contains violence, sexual references (including censored and/or partial nudity, medium to high-level implied scenes of sexual intercourse, and sexual innuendo) and strong language.

They'll be fine. You can do quite a bit without going full Game of Thrones 

 

[Guire]

So many great scenes depend on the square relationship.  I think I hope they just keep it intact.  This show is gonna get chewed up for lots of things.  Everyone is gonna have an opinion.  Might as stay with it.

[Guire]

9 minutes ago, Skipp said:

My mistake.  But there is plenty of subtext to support an Elayne/ Aveindha relationship. Wouldn't surprise me if they added it to make the relationship more poly-amorous and less harem.

But if my memory holds up it never was harem like.  We have multiple powerful important people having relationships while being pulled by forces they don't control. Rand never attempted to put them all away in a castle.  It was more the women decided they wanted or were destined to be with him and preferred sharing over not having him.  

 

My only issue with a bisexual relationship is that I don't think it really fits in story line anywhere because they rarely were all together.  

 

Editing because forgot Avi/Elayne did have time frame together. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Guire

[MasterAblar]

Rand is only ever in the same room as 2 of them at a time like twice in the books? Bonding + fields of merillor? Hard to make it harem like in those conditions.

[king of nowhere]

i'm not a specific expert in the field, but i would bet that there are poliamorous relationships where a few members of the group do not have sex with each other. i'd bet on it for the simple reason that sexual identities are not straightjackets to constrain people.

 

as for any potentially unfortunate implications, for start, i don't think there are any; poligamy generally implies that the men is more important, that he is the one doing stuff while the wives cater to him. that's definitely not the case here, elayne is a monarch and she even outranks rand during the final fight, and aviendha is a strong character in her own right; min is the only one taking a more traditional supportive role, and that's mostly because of her limited power.

But second, I sense a perfect opportunity to balance matters with Myrelle. Myrelle is poliamorous with her three warders. Nobody could accuse the show of sexism for rand's three girls if there is an aes sedai doing the very same thing with her three warders. So, let's introduce Myrelle fast and let's expand her role!

[Guire]

23 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

i'm not a specific expert in the field, but i would bet that there are poliamorous relationships where a few members of the group do not have sex with each other. i'd bet on it for the simple reason that sexual identities are not straightjackets to constrain people.

 

as for any potentially unfortunate implications, for start, i don't think there are any; poligamy generally implies that the men is more important, that he is the one doing stuff while the wives cater to him. that's definitely not the case here, elayne is a monarch and she even outranks rand during the final fight, and aviendha is a strong character in her own right; min is the only one taking a more traditional supportive role, and that's mostly because of her limited power.

But second, I sense a perfect opportunity to balance matters with Myrelle. Myrelle is poliamorous with her three warders. Nobody could accuse the show of sexism for rand's three girls if there is an aes sedai doing the very same thing with her three warders. So, let's introduce Myrelle fast and let's expand her role!

It's kind of amazing how Jordan was dealing with many social topics( sometimes awkwardly) that feel more in this moment than they did when he was writing.

[AusLeviathan]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Rand is only ever in the same room as 2 of them at a time like twice in the books?

This is actually one of the biggest weaknesses of Rand's relationships to me, from TSR to TOM Rand is only in the same room as more than one of them exactly once, in WH and that's a rushed meeting where they don't really have time to talk things through (Aviendha and Min were also acting antagonistic towards each other).

 

His relationships with them are also self contained, Elayne is moved as far away as possible before Rand begins a relationship with Aviendha, Aviendha is moved as far away as possible before Rand begins a relationship with Min and in both cases Rand's previous relationship has left him feeling as though they're not interested in a relationship anymore.

 

So it's a polyamorous relationship that goes out of its way to avoid dealing with what that means and for the last half of the series with the exception of one chapter Rand/Min is the only one of his relationships we really see.

 

The height of this avoidance comes with the reveal that Aviendha had spent weeks in the same area as Rand and Min but had avoided approaching or talking to them (even when she feels Rand in more pain then she's ever felt him in Aviendha still avoids him) and Rand who can sense where she is has also made no attempt to approach her.

 

I'm of the opinion that if they're going to keep the polyamory then they need to actually make it worth it and actually explore it. Show how such a relationship like this could work rather than avoiding anything that could create conflict and downplaying it like the books did.

[CaddySedai]

I love the analysis and find no fault in it.