Most of the trailer turned me off; looks like a young adult series

[AusLeviathan]

The arrow scene is remarkably bad in the trailer. Why they thought showing a few arrows frozen in air from the back and up close (which has the effect of making the CGI very conspicuous) I have no idea, it's pretty much the least visually impressive way to do that sort of scene.

 

The other trailer scene that stands out is Stepin doing that weird leap which looks like it shouldn't allow him to even reach Logain whilst holding up two Axes that look like legit toys. Yeah it's a Warder Bond breaking thing but with the cheap looking Axes and the silly way he's holding them it just looks stupid.

 

Weirdly Amazon changed the age rating of the trailer in Australia to PG (essentially equivalent to the US PG rating) which I'm pretty sure is an error. The small amount of blood shown when Lan attacks the Trolloc alone would push it past that age rating.

[TheMountain]

Tight shots are cheaper.

[DojoToad]

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

The arrow scene is remarkably bad in the trailer. Why they thought showing a few arrows frozen in air from the back and up close (which has the effect of making the CGI very conspicuous) I have no idea, it's pretty much the least visually impressive way to do that sort of scene.

 

The other trailer scene that stands out is Stepin doing that weird leap which looks like it shouldn't allow him to even reach Logain whilst holding up two Axes that look like legit toys. Yeah it's a Warder Bond breaking thing but with the cheap looking Axes and the silly way he's holding them it just looks stupid.

 

Weirdly Amazon changed the age rating of the trailer in Australia to PG (essentially equivalent to the US PG rating) which I'm pretty sure is an error. The small amount of blood shown when Lan attacks the Trolloc alone would push it past that age rating.

Arrows - yes, looks terrible

 

Axe Warder - Hard to say out of context.  Roll the whole scene from beginning to end and it might look okay.  Didn't notice that he was holding the axes half-way up the haft until I did a freeze-frame.  At full speed...

 

Overall - Maybe nit picky?  Analyze anything long enough and you can make it great or awful in your own mind depending on what you expect, fear, want to see.  I'm not a huge fan of the initial teaser myself, but rather than destroy the show before seeing it, I'm just going to sit back and wait on the next offering - try not to over-analyze it and wait for the actual show.

 

Lan/Trolloc -  I would expect more blood when pulling the sword out than sticking it in.  But then show the whole scene and maybe we're okay.  Lots of movies/shows don't do this well, but if I'm in the moment, with the whole suspension of disbelief going on, I don't even notice - until I've watched the thing 10 times...

 

Sometimes I think advances in technology work against us.  The ability to see the trailer endlessly, advance it frame-by-frame, etc. ruins the experience.  Analyze your favorite movie with the intensity that we have this trailer and I'm sure you can find plenty to hate.

Edited October 6, 2021 by DojoToad

[Elder_Haman]

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Arrows - yes, looks terrible

I've been trying very hard to understand this criticism, but I don't. It doesn't "look terrible" to me - it looks like magic stopping arrows in mid-air. What is it that you want it to look like? (I'm genuinely asking because I'm open to the fact that I don't have an eye for this sort of thing).

 

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Axe Warder - Hard to say out of context.  Roll the whole scene from beginning to end and it might look okay.  Didn't notice that he was holding the axes half-way up the haft until I did a freeze-frame.  At full speed...

Yeah, I don't like the axes. Mostly because the hafts are too damn short. And the jump looks kind of silly, but like you said it's out of context.

[DojoToad]

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I've been trying very hard to understand this criticism, but I don't. It doesn't "look terrible" to me - it looks like magic stopping arrows in mid-air. What is it that you want it to look like? (I'm genuinely asking because I'm open to the fact that I don't have an eye for this sort of thing).

I think it is probably personal.  Looks contrived to me.  Probably can't explain it better than that, but it 'hit' my eye wrong.  The whole group of Aes Sedai and Warders appear to be looking at the arrows when only the one Aes Sedai needs too - why aren't they taking care of the shooters (by force or with the power)?  It all just looks too posed - see what we can do and how unconcerned we are.  We are the White Tower and we are awesome!  Rah, rah!

 

Now from the books I think the White Tower is awesome and an Aes Sedai and her Warder are an often overwhelming force.  Maybe I don't have an eye for this kind of thing.  They just seemed too impressed with themselves.

 

A similar scene from the original "Matrix" when Neo stops the bullets, I thought was awesome and very appropriate.  The difference being that Neo didn't know he could do it, was doing it for the first time, and was trying to understand what he was and what he could do.

[TheDreadReader]

8 hours ago, DojoToad said:

 

Axe Warder - Hard to say out of context.  Roll the whole scene from beginning to end and it might look okay.  Didn't notice that he was holding the axes half-way up the haft until I did a freeze-frame.  At full speed...

 

Overall - Maybe nit picky?  Analyze anything long enough and you can make it great or awful in your own mind depending on what you expect, fear, want to see.  I'm not a huge fan of the initial teaser myself, but rather than destroy the show before seeing it, I'm just going to sit back and wait on the next offering - try not to over-analyze it and wait for the actual show.

 

 

 

Axes...  I agree with you.  It is a few frames without enough overall context to really get a feel for what it will look like.  There are more than few in-story and production factors that could come into play in what is happening there.  Is he on wires?  Did he get a push via the one-power?  Are the axes power-wrought so normal 'practical' weapon design factors are less of a problem?  

 

The mid grip is an interesting catch.  Depending on how the movement of the sequence flows that seems to me to be fairly good grip location for stability's sake.  

 

Overall, I'm more looking for a good, serviceable, consistent, look and feel that makes sense rather than getting too worked up about details.

 

I, honestly, have more issues with the Aes Sedai costumes from the white tower shots.  They don't look fabulous enough.  But, I am not sure how to quantify that in a meaningful way. ?

 

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I think it is probably personal.  Looks contrived to me.  Probably can't explain it better than that, but it 'hit' my eye wrong.  The whole group of Aes Sedai and Warders appear to be looking at the arrows when only the one Aes Sedai needs too - why aren't they taking care of the shooters (by force or with the power)?  It all just looks too posed - see what we can do and how unconcerned we are.  We are the White Tower and we are awesome!  Rah, rah!

 

Now from the books I think the White Tower is awesome and an Aes Sedai and her Warder are an often overwhelming force.  Maybe I don't have an eye for this kind of thing.  They just seemed too impressed with themselves.

 

A similar scene from the original "Matrix" when Neo stops the bullets, I thought was awesome and very appropriate.  The difference being that Neo didn't know he could do it, was doing it for the first time, and was trying to understand what he was and what he could do.

I get where you're coming from, but it's hard to know in the absence of continuity shots why they are positioned the way they are. Maybe this is an ambush? Or they are worried about Logain using saidin? I just want to see how the whole scene plays out before rendering a judgment.

 

I thought the focus was on the quality of the CGI, which seems fine to me. I don't know how else you depict weaves of air grabbing arrows mid-flight.

[DojoToad]

4 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

The mid grip is an interesting catch.  Depending on how the movement of the sequence flows that seems to me to be fairly good grip location for stability's sake.  

Mid-grip loses power.  Especially with how short the handles are, stability is not an issue.  I personally want as much distance between me and my opponent as possible in any conflict - not really a factor as Logain is bound and on his knees.

 

But Warders are weapons, even without thought he would optimize his grip.  If he is truly in a Warder rage in this scene, probably the only thought in his head is to swing these axes all the way through Logain and into the floor - must maximize power!

[DojoToad]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I get where you're coming from, but it's hard to know in the absence of continuity shots why they are positioned the way they are. Maybe this is an ambush? Or they are worried about Logain using saidin? I just want to see how the whole scene plays out before rendering a judgment.

 

I thought the focus was on the quality of the CGI, which seems fine to me. I don't know how else you depict weaves of air grabbing arrows mid-flight.

No, CGI looked fine for me - just the set up looked contrived.  It was the one scene I didn't like on first viewing.  But as I said on some other things, full context may wash away dislike.

[Elder_Haman]

It's funny. Many people have complained about the Red Ajah scene. And the only thing I can think when I see it is how fierce Liandrin looks and what a great casting choice they made.

[DojoToad]

Fierce for real - can't wait to see the context.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I've been trying very hard to understand this criticism, but I don't. It doesn't "look terrible" to me - it looks like magic stopping arrows in mid-air. What is it that you want it to look like? (I'm genuinely asking because I'm open to the fact that I don't have an eye for this sort of thing).

 

Stopping the arrows is probable trying to do something similar to NEO in the Matrix stopping bullets. If I had any gripe with the scene, it's that an Aes Sedai would do the fastest/easiest thing they could, and that would be to create a wall of air between her group and the arrows. The arrows would hit it, and bounce off. Stopping them requires a lot of extra power/concentration, lots of extra math and physics to get the air to be jelly enough to slow them down to nothing, but not too thick to bounce them off from surface tension, while having enough air-jelly to slow them so they don't go through.

 

Quote

Yeah, I don't like the axes. Mostly because the hafts are too damn short. And the jump looks kind of silly, but like you said it's out of context.

If anything, it looks like he's consist in where he's holding the axes.
I also can't be sure, but it almost looks like the axe handle is longer in the 2nd picture than the first.

Jumping attacks like that are flashy and dumb. (One of my biggest gripes about the legend of the seeker)
If  he's raging due to his Aes Sedai dying (99% probable) It at least makes more sense.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

But Warders are weapons, even without thought he would optimize his grip.  If he is truly in a Warder rage in this scene, probably the only thought in his head is to swing these axes all the way through Logain and into the floor - must maximize power!

My only thought on this, has to do with muscle memory. 
If he's always holding them the same way, even in a rage, that muscle memory is going to kick in.

*Shrugs*
I'd rather have a shield + that axe than running around with two of them.

[dssharp]

I agree with the general sentiment that maybe things will look better in the flow of the show/action, and that over analysis can start to cause problems.  
 

The scene with the arrows is one that looked poor to me too, and I think it was mainly the posing of the good guys. Maybe in the thick of it, it could be fine? We’ll see. Looked sanitized or contrived and yes YA;)

 

The axes do not look good. I guess the person who power wrought them or the smithy who made them had bad taste.  And then Stepin didn’t want to refuse the valuable gift and insult the person bestowing him with something as rare as a power wrought axe (let alone TWO).  Clearly he otherwise has good taste, but was just being polite. Haha!  
 

I agree with other posters here, that in general more real feeling violence tends to ground the work and make it seem more authentic. (Game of thrones violence vs Marvel). Many will say Game of Thrones overdid it on the sex/nudity, and I guess that’s mainly a matter of opinion, but I really agree with the posts that say: don’t shy away from it and don’t overdo it. 

I want the world to feel real and believable (which is a bigger challenge for WOT than GOT and LOTR because of the ubiquity of magic in WOT). So hopefully most/all other elements feel very authentic.  I think that helps widen the appeal. Rafe has said we can watch it with teenagers, which to me means a different kind of show than I was expecting, but teenagers watch a lot of mature content these days… I guess we’ll see. I am VERY excited to see how it goes!

[AdamA]

I just rewatched the arrow scene and didn't think it looked as bad as I remember especially with my memory being tainted by the complaints. Magic is hard to show. It worked as well as it did in the Matrix in part because the audience knows it's a simulation and the world doesn't need to follow any sensible physics. But I was afraid I was going to see Wanda Maximoff/Magneto style effort face with Alanna doing her action at a distance thing while she grimaced and her arms shook and it wasn't that at all. I actually like that it looked effortless to her. It's going to make her pretty intimidating that a whole army can try to shoot her and she just spins her wrists a few times and doesn't break a sweat.

 

The axe thing is a great catch. I agree the grip makes no sense and you'd want to maximize torque for real, but I would never have noticed it. That's hawk-eyed devotion to frame-by-frame analysis right there, but definitely the kind of thing I think won't be noticed seeing it full speed in an episode as opposed to frame-by-frame analysis of two minutes over two months. This always happens with trailers.

 

If I'm being honest, TV-14 worries me a bit, but we'll see. I think the ceiling there is something like The Mandalorian, with plenty of violence but it looks a bit too sanitized, which to be fair to The Mandalorian, makes a lot more sense in a world with laser weapons that probably cauterize wounds as they make them, but people getting hacked with swords should be bloody. Doesn't need to be Tarantino, but I don't think this should look like it would belong on Disney. Explicit sex would be totally out of place and I'm fine with none of that. You absolutely don't need Littlefinger monologuing in front of naked women simulating sex to earn adult street cred. But I agree that they don't want to paint themselves into a censor corner where they need to force a naked woman to awkwardly cover her nipples in a way no real person ever would just to escape TV-MA.

[DaddyFinn]

I wanna see some shirt ripping sexy time ? 

[Pembie]

What can they do with Login in season one I can’t remember him doing anything at that stage in the book

[Skipp]

4 minutes ago, Pembie said:

What can they do with Login in season one I can’t remember him doing anything at that stage in the book

 

Declaring he is the Dragon Reborn infront of the Ghealdanin nobility.  Showing the battles he fought against the Aes Sedai.  Show his capture and gentling.  Show why people are afraid of Male Channelers  .

 

All things that happened during book 1 just off screen.  But everything there, if shown, can build up the world without just telling the audience.

[Beidomon]

18 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Sometimes I think advances in technology work against us.  The ability to see the trailer endlessly, advance it frame-by-frame, etc. ruins the experience.  Analyze your favorite movie with the intensity that we have this trailer and I'm sure you can find plenty to hate.

It’s funny, my immediate reaction on seeing the trailer ONE TIME was “this looks YA.” Then I reviewed it more closely to try to figure out why and narrowed it down to only a few parts. It wasn’t nitpicking that got me to YA…. kinda the opposite. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Beidomon

[Beidomon]

7 hours ago, dssharp said:

The scene with the arrows is one that looked poor to me too, and I think it was mainly the posing of the good guys. Maybe in the thick of it, it could be fine? We’ll see. Looked sanitized or contrived and yes YA;)

YES. It’s not the arrows. It’s that the scene looks too damned clean. And posed. To me, that’s what gives it the YA look. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Beidomon

[Elder_Haman]

9 hours ago, Beidomon said:

To me, that’s what gives it the YA look. 

What is “the YA look”? I don’t understand this criticism, mostly because I don’t think that all YA shows have the same look. Can you explain what you mean?

[DojoToad]

I think @Beidomon said what he means - too clean and posed.

[Elder_Haman]

Still doesn’t make sense to me. Every shot in a television show is “posed”.  And I don’t understand the term “clean” either. Is it in reference to their clothing? Or to the shot not being cluttered? 
 

Nor do I understand why “posed” (whatever that means) and “clean” means something looks “YA”? Is there a single YA look? Because, to me, the factors that make something YA have always been about plot and character choices. 

[SinisterDeath]

11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Still doesn’t make sense to me. Every shot in a television show is “posed”.  And I don’t understand the term “clean” either. Is it in reference to their clothing? Or to the shot not being cluttered? 

"Clean" in that they don't look like they've been travelling on dusty, muddy roads for weeks or months.
Mind, we don't know "when" that attack takes place. They could be just a half-days ride out of town for all we know.

"Posed" like an MCU film where the hero lands with one knee on the floor. Looks cool but. owe owey, ouch.

[dssharp]

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Still doesn’t make sense to me. Every shot in a television show is “posed”.  And I don’t understand the term “clean” either. Is it in reference to their clothing? Or to the shot not being cluttered? 

I think mainly when directors are “posing” every shot they want it to look natural and believable. (To not appear POSED by someone else or directed, but to be instinctual/natural.
 

To say something LOOKS posed, means they didn’t quite pull that off. Again, it very well could be fine in the full show, but that scene just doesn’t do it for me in the trailer. 

[Rose]

I understand the criticism. It looks dramatic and cool but not necessarily the most realistic, which can break the suspension of disbelief for some people. I do think we all have different thresholds and frames of reference for that so we won't all have the same reaction to it. (For me personally, I was fine with it. I like my fantasy escapist and cool-looking even if it wouldn't make the most sense in real life. It's a matter of personal preference).

 

ETA: As for the YA aspect, I think the comparison comes from the fact that as a general trend, YA tends to favor escapism over realism. But it's only an overall tendency and definitely not true of all YA, and also not exclusive to YA.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Rose