Encouraged or dissalusioned? Post trailer feelings

[king of nowhere]

as someone who understands nothing of clothing, i obviously don't see anything wrong with them. what they wear on the field seem standard medieval garb. what they wear in the tower's hall goes between standard medieval fancy garb, and extra-fancy garb

(as in, i noticed that the more clothing is fancy and refined, the more it tends to get more uncomfortable to wear and to look ridiculous to anyone not of that culture. I mean, just ignore all your social conditioning that a guy in a suit is important, won't it look like a bad penguin cosplay? Of course, it's all part of the status symbol. If you can wear something uncomfortable and movement-restricting, it means you have servants and don't need to work. If you can wear something silly and be taken seriously, you must be the most important person in the room)

I have no idea what else they should be wearing.

As for the intricate and detailed descriptions given in the books, they were the only passages where i had to look some words on a dictionary. And even then, I still couldn't picture most of it

 

But seeing people get so hung up on clothes, i wonder what could be so bad about them

[DojoToad]

33 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

as someone who understands nothing of clothing, i obviously don't see anything wrong with them. what they wear on the field seem standard medieval garb. what they wear in the tower's hall goes between standard medieval fancy garb, and extra-fancy garb

(as in, i noticed that the more clothing is fancy and refined, the more it tends to get more uncomfortable to wear and to look ridiculous to anyone not of that culture. I mean, just ignore all your social conditioning that a guy in a suit is important, won't it look like a bad penguin cosplay? Of course, it's all part of the status symbol. If you can wear something uncomfortable and movement-restricting, it means you have servants and don't need to work. If you can wear something silly and be taken seriously, you must be the most important person in the room)

I have no idea what else they should be wearing.

As for the intricate and detailed descriptions given in the books, they were the only passages where i had to look some words on a dictionary. And even then, I still couldn't picture most of it

 

But seeing people get so hung up on clothes, i wonder what could be so bad about them

The only problem I had with the clothes was from the 'first look' picture.  The EF5 looked to be dressed the same as Moiraine and Lan despite being out of a backwoods village.  An Aes Sedai and her Warder should be a cut above a bunch hayseeds - even if they are dressed for the road.

[Elder_Haman]

On 9/4/2021 at 6:29 PM, redgiant said:

their outfits are ugly and seem made from the exact same cloth and colors (all reds are wearing exactly the same shade/material, etc)

So I missed this on my first pass. And you're just wrong. (At least setting aside the subjective 'ugliness' - the outfits are entirely distinct and seem to point toward the huge cultural diversity of the Westlands.

 

Look at the image below:

 

None of the outfits are identical.  The colors aren't identical. The styles aren't identical. The materials aren't identical. They're very different from one another, but you can see some similar cuts on sisters from different ajahs, suggesting that they are paying attention to different cultural styles of dress.

 

And that's not to mention the amazing detail in the architecture. The columns and the Amyrlin's ... seat are so intricate! So is the floor.

 

The criticism that the sisters from the same ajahs all dress alike is just flat wrong.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[Guire]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

So I missed this on my first pass. And you're just wrong. (At least setting aside the subjective 'ugliness' - the outfits are entirely distinct and seem to point toward the huge cultural diversity of the Westlands.

 

Look at the image below:

 

None of the outfits are identical.  The colors aren't identical. The styles aren't identical. The materials aren't identical. They're very different from one another, but you can see some similar cuts on sisters from different ajahs, suggesting that they are paying attention to different cultural styles of dress.

 

And that's not to mention the amazing detail in the architecture. The columns and the Amyrlin's ... seat are so intricate! So is the floor.

 

The criticism that the sisters from the same ajahs all dress alike is just flat wrong.

Good catch on this still.  More I look the better I am feeling. Tomorrow when I get off work I am going to watch trailer with wife and sons on 4k large screen.  Besides hearing yeet from my sons when Egwene gets tossed, I am sure my wife will have some comments on clothing.   

[Rand520]

At least we still have Winter Dragon if this is a mess ?

[johnnysd]

I think I feel a need to push back on the "not following the books" bit.

 

Simply put that is sort of unknown in some ways but in general I feel it is BS. And not really thinking things through.

 

Lets review what we know in terms of plot:

 

1. The attack takes place on Winternight after the celebration and dancing not day before. (Not a big change arguably better)

 

2. The EF5 flee EF like in the books

 

3. They cross the bridge at TF like in the books.

 

4. Rand sees the fade on the road

 

5. Padan Fain visits EF

 

6. Thom does not.  Still at this point very very close to the books. Is moving the date of the attack and putting Thom a bit later that big of a deal.

 

7. They wind up in Shadar Logoth

 

8. Matt steals a tainted dagger. We may not see Mordeth but not truly confirmed. Maybe we see Fain encounter Mordeth which is narratively possibly stronger. 

 

9. They flee Shadar Logoth.  From the casting reports it seems likely they split in the same manner Eg/Perrin Rand/Mat/ Mo/Lan/Nyn. Eg and Perrin jump off the wall? Is this a horrible change?  Still very very close to the books. Major change-likely no Baerlon but we know we still get much of what happens there

 

10. Rand/Matt travel alone (likely to TV) meet the Grinwells, wind up in 4 Kings, meet Thom maybe before 4 Kings, anger some Whitecloaks, then likely have the same climax as book and Thom travels with them to TV. Bayle Domon likely cut.

 

11. Eg/Perrin travel together. Perrin meets Wolves. They meet the tinkers. Elyas may or not be part of it. They likely encounter Whitecloaks and possibly get rescued in the same way

 

12 Moiraine/Lan (likely after rescuing Eg/Perrin) meet up somehow with the group hunting Logain instead of just showing up at Caemlyn

 

13 Rand/Mat got to the Queens Blessing (maybe renamed) and meet Basel Gill and Loial. Moiraine and the others meet up at the Inn much like in the books likely after dropping off Logain (recaptured) 

 

14. So far this is really really close to the books

 

15. After this we know less. We know they use the Ways. We know they go to Fal Dara and it is pretty likely that they go into the Blight, there is the Eye (regardless of what EH think) and the fight at Tarwins gap and the reveal of Rand at the Dragon, We know Min is in Fal dara

 

16. We also likely get Fain stealing the horn and the start of the hunt.

 

17. Caenlyn and Elayne are pushed to Season 2 (replacing Cairihien?)

 

To me, just like in GoT early seasons they get to the same major events albeit through slightly different paths. But the major events are seemingly ALL there.

 

Major changes are loss of Caemlyn and likely Baerlon with the addition of Tar Valon which will have more impact for the show. in addition we might not see Elyas, Domon or Whitebridge, Min moved.

 

Why would they do this?

 

1. Budget...not enough Budget to show so many cities

2. So much exposition and internal monologue in the books that certain things have to be shown, like the taint, how dangerous "Dragon Reborns" are, more on the One Power, etc....

 

Seems to me that those thinking it is completely different than the books are barking up the wrong tree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raezold]

1. Lan is not working for me. Wasn't Leane supposed to be amazingly beautiful? Perrin is meh. Egwene and Nyn are worse. Getting Tywin Lannister in there feels like Gandalf playing Thom. So the casting is absolutely horrendous for me.

 

2. Myrdraal is over the top with his rows and rows of teeth like some alien space worm I've seen in some movie somewhere.

 

3. Where's Mashadar? Don't tell me the stone turning black is supposed to be it. 

 

4. I never got the fact that apparently Emond's Field has always been like an international town with people from all over the world. Wasn't that supposed to happen only later on in the series? If it isn't then I guess this one's on me for having a crappy memory.
 

5. It feels all very woke and female centred. Which is also the reply I got when I showed the trailer to some people who never read a single word from WoT and who are definitely not going to watch this with me it seems. Well, at least I can watch it in my own time then.

 

6. Scenery looks neat and so does the weaving I think. Shouldn't there be some colours in there though?

 

 

I'm really hoping I'm going to be surprised and it turns out to be fine but for now it feels miles behind GoT. Taking that one as benchmark because let's be honest, most other fantasy series are just so incredibly bad it's not even funny anymore.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Raezold said:

1.Wasn't Leane supposed to be amazingly beautiful?

 

2. Myrdraal is over the top with his rows and rows of teeth like some alien space worm I've seen in some movie somewhere.

 

4. I never got the fact that apparently Emond's Field has always been like an international town with people from all over the world. Wasn't that supposed to happen only later on in the series? If it isn't then I guess this one's on me for having a crappy memory.
 

5. It feels all very woke and female centred. Which is also the reply I got when I showed the trailer to some people who never read a single word from WoT and who are definitely not going to watch this with me it seems. Well, at least I can watch it in my own time then.

1) leane was supposed to be amazingly good with using makeup and flirting. Nobody ever mentioned her looks before she started trying to use it. and she was described as basically unkempt and business-like. I mean, we see her on the trailer with a very displeased expression and unflattering clothes. Put a smile on her face and some wardrobe that won't spell the message "i am too important for you to bother me", and she'd surely improve.

 

2 I see your point, but myrdraal are supposed to be terrifying. In the books, they have the power in their stare. In the movie, of course they can't do it. And the various fan art I saw wasn't going a good job at evoking fear. Changing it for a more fearsome look is part of adapting.

 

4) The only scene I can see with emond field is the tavern, a few seconds we see near second 10. Except the group of Mat, Rand and Perrin, I can't see details anywhere else. Still, I can't see any blonde hair there, which fits with descriptions (there is a white-haired elder that could be mistaken at first glance). People are some variations of tan.

I was also concerned about them putting diversity where it would make no sense worldbuilding-wise, but as far as I can tell from those few seconds, this is not the case.

 

5) it can certainly give that impression. But just because it's centered around females, it does not mean it's woke (in the negative connotation). in the books, women held power, but they were as flawed and as jerkasses as anyone else.

Ruling, being protagonist, being strong, winning. None of them is particularly relevant for wokeness. What matters is being a positive or negative character. If all the positive characters belong to a category and all the negative character to another, then the movie(book/whatever) is political. if the movie is dominated by women, but those women are all abusive jerks oppressing good men, then the movie is not woke, and in fact it could be used as right wing propaganda. This is not the case with wot, positive and negative characters are evenly split among genders, cultures, and everything else.

Yes, it's a world ruled by women. But those women are never shown neither implied to be better.

And nothing we see in the trailer supports a change in this. You can tell that to your woke-fearing friends.

And by the way, what's with the woke fear? Apparently, there's some people who go into a panic as soon as they see a woman leader, and refuse to watch any further. I'll be the first to admit that there are some extremists in the "social justice" field taking things too far, but you shouldn't let this define your views. Not every story with a woman  protagonist has to be about feminism, not every story with a black protagonist has to be about racism, and not every story with a white male protagonist has to be backwards and reactionary. Let the story be judged for its own merits

 

I won't contest your other points, they are either subjective, or they are even things I can agree with.

 

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Raezold said:

4. I never got the fact that apparently Emond's Field has always been like an international town with people from all over the world. Wasn't that supposed to happen only later on in the series? If it isn't then I guess this one's on me for having a crappy memory.

Agree with you on this for the most part - also based on crappy memory and book cover art.  I always thought that EF was very homogenous until after the Seanchan pushed Westerners over the Mountains of Mist.  But I also remember someone pointing out a comparison Rand made between Egwene and Elayne - mainly with Egwene being as dark as Elayne was fair or some such - which kind of blows the homogenous thing.  Of course I don't remember which book it was mentioned in, but I remember reading it after having it pointed out to me.

[Rose]

A town doesn't need to be an international hub to have a range of physical appearance within its population. It only needs to be descended from multiple ethnic groups somewhere in its past, which is definitely the case for EF (Manetheren was a major geopolitical hub and center of trade, and before that, the Breaking pretty much tossed everyone around). Even if the population has been fairly isolated for several generations, the gene pool would be diverse enough to create a range of phenotypes just from genetic lottery alone. You can absolutely get people with medium-to-dark brown skin and coily/coarse hair alongside people with lighter skintones and thinner/straighter hair in a population like this. This happens in real life, sometimes within a single family. All it takes is a diverse gene pool, which is the result of ethnic mixing sometime in the past, to create different combinations.

[Rose]

As for my thoughts on the trailer, I was originally kind of disappointed because it showed very little of the plot and characters and instead seemed very focused on showcasing the magic and battles and world-ending stakes, almost like any generic fantasy trailer. But I realize it's a teaser trailer and it's meant to signal to a wider audience "hey, this is epic fantasy, this is the kind of ride you're on." So, fine. I will wait for the extended trailer and hope there are more character moments and more of the plot showcased there. In the meantime, I definitely find myself liking the trailer more every time I rewatch it and catch more details, which is probably a good sign.

 

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, Rose said:

As for my thoughts on the trailer, I was originally kind of disappointed because it showed very little of the plot and characters 

 

 

A good point, but it is just the Teaser Trailer after all. If you watch any of Marvel's teasers they do the same thing. It isn't until the first "Official Trailer" or if this was a movie the "Theatrical Trailer" to get more of a plot push.

 

This is to generate interest. The next will be the hook ? 

[40man]

After seeing the first trailer and new teaser showing the entrance of Lan and Moraine, I'm guessing this show loses new and casual followers fast, and will ultimately disappoint fans. 

 

The production style looks more like a USA network fantasy show compared to a film or HBO/GOT show. It just feels cheesy. I recall the same feeling of wrongness when I saw the preview for Indiana Jones 4, and thought that post-production will make it more "Indyesque". I hope my spidy-senses are inaccurate for WOT based on these first two trailer/teasers.

 

GOT opened the door to how good Fantasy stories could be on screen. Shannara reminded us how bad they can, and have been. WOT may slam the door on many future book adaptions unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

[DojoToad]

Anyone noticing the pattern of total newbs creating an account just to slam the show?

 

Not that they can't have whatever opinion they want, but it seems (almost) exclusively bad...

Edited October 10, 2021 by DojoToad

[DaddyFinn]

30 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Anyone noticing the pattern of total newbs creating an account just to slam the show?

 

Not that they can't have whatever opinion they want, but it seems (almost) exclusively bad...

Funny how some people have made up their mind already. I guess it's too much to watch it before judging.

[40man]

I was a bit neutral after the first teaser, because you only see snippets without seeing a lot of dialogue and corresponding production value.

 

I expected it from Shannara after MTV picked it up, and Terry Brooks became a sellout long ago, bending to publisher pressure to split stories into 3 books to make more $$$.

 

I'll still give it a chance, and will be glad if I'm wrong, as I've been excited for the series. The last teaser just seems like unpolished made for tv filming and acting.

 

[DaddyFinn]

29 minutes ago, 40man said:

I was a bit neutral after the first teaser, because you only see snippets without seeing a lot of dialogue and corresponding production value.

 

I expected it from Shannara after MTV picked it up, and Terry Brooks became a sellout long ago, bending to publisher pressure to split stories into 3 books to make more $$$.

 

I'll still give it a chance, and will be glad if I'm wrong, as I've been excited for the series. The last teaser just seems like unpolished made for tv filming and acting.

 

Did you watch the NYCC panel,  Winespring inn clip and listen to the first official single Al'naito?

Edited October 10, 2021 by DaddyFinn

[Raezold]

40 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Anyone noticing the pattern of total newbs creating an account just to slam the show?

 

Not that they can't have whatever opinion they want, but it seems (almost) exclusively bad...

 

You only joined in 2013, newb ?

 

But ehh.., I know it's hard to understand for the gigantic fanboys here but a lot of people who've enjoyed the books simply think the tv series looks really bad. What we've been shown so far anyway. And people want to talk about it, just like you do. 

[JaimAybara]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:45 PM, Elder_Haman said:

So I missed this on my first pass. And you're just wrong. (At least setting aside the subjective 'ugliness' - the outfits are entirely distinct and seem to point toward the huge cultural diversity of the Westlands.

 

Look at the image below:

 

None of the outfits are identical.  The colors aren't identical. The styles aren't identical. The materials aren't identical. They're very different from one another, but you can see some similar cuts on sisters from different ajahs, suggesting that they are paying attention to different cultural styles of dress.

 

And that's not to mention the amazing detail in the architecture. The columns and the Amyrlin's ... seat are so intricate! So is the floor.

 

The criticism that the sisters from the same ajahs all dress alike is just flat wrong.

I didn’t catch this, thank you for the deep dive. This makes me much more happy about their outfits. The part I had been a little meh, over was the frame of all the reds doing their power pose, but that could be more cinematic framing vs. their actual clothing. That being said, awesome take on the tower hall. Thank you. 

[JaimAybara]

1 hour ago, 40man said:

I was a bit neutral after the first teaser, because you only see snippets without seeing a lot of dialogue and corresponding production value.

 

I expected it from Shannara after MTV picked it up, and Terry Brooks became a sellout long ago, bending to publisher pressure to split stories into 3 books to make more $$$.

 

I'll still give it a chance, and will be glad if I'm wrong, as I've been excited for the series. The last teaser just seems like unpolished made for tv filming and acting.

 

I lost interest in his stories after the Jerle Shannara trilogy in the books, those were the last ones I saw as innovative or interesting; and by the time he finally introduced new pairs of elf stones as a plot device I had already tossed in the towel. Also, in my head I pronounced it Shuh-nar-uh so when I watched the show and they were saying Shan-uh-ruh, paired with the terrible YA acting and low production value I about died. 

[JaimAybara]

17 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I lost interest in his stories after the Jerle Shannara trilogy in the books, those were the last ones I saw as innovative or interesting; and by the time he finally introduced new pairs of elf stones as a plot device I had already tossed in the towel. Also, in my head I pronounced it Shuh-nar-uh so when I watched the show and they were saying Shan-uh-ruh, paired with the terrible YA acting and low production value I about died. 

*also, I love the actor that played in Spartacus, but he didn’t look anything like Alanon. 
 

* sorry for the tangent— 

 

Regarding WoT I am in the neutral camp, there are aspects so far that I really like and others that are a bit dubious. 
 

I think everyone can agree regardless of initial takes is we all want it to be truly amazing. We know how a bad television adaptation can hurt a series, and how long it can take for someone to try adapting it again, if ever, if it goes awry. 
 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by JaimAybara

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Raezold said:

 

You only joined in 2013, newb ?

 

But ehh.., I know it's hard to understand for the gigantic fanboys here but a lot of people who've enjoyed the books simply think the tv series looks really bad. What we've been shown so far anyway. And people want to talk about it, just like you do. 

Just noticing a lot of negative vibes from people with 1 or 5 or 10 posts.  Makes me wonder if a person or two out there is spamming with multiple accounts...

[king of nowhere]

24 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Just noticing a lot of negative vibes from people with 1 or 5 or 10 posts.  Makes me wonder if a person or two out there is spamming with multiple accounts...

yes, i got the same impression. most of those criticism is either very generic ("the show looks bad" without any motivation, while people who are appreciative generally can list what they liked) and some even fall into some familiar speech pattern.

 

it's also suspicious that so many new people came in to express negativity, while few joined to express positivity. I mean, established fandom communities are overwhelmingly positive, and you'd expect those to represent the average fan. If new people are moved to join to comment on the new clips, I'd expect some positive and some negative, with a bias towards positive.

 

I believe we're seeing what we've seen many times in politics, that a minority view spurned by the mainstream becomes more and more radicalized, its members getting more and more extreme in their creed and actions.

It's either a few people spamming with multiaccounts, or a bunch of people from other wot communities disgruntled from the generally positive receptions and trying to get themselves heard by posting in multiple sites.

[Elder_Haman]

4 hours ago, 40man said:

 

The production style looks more like a USA network fantasy show compared to a film or HBO/GOT show. It just feels cheesy.

I don’t understand what you mean by this. What does a USA network show look like? How is it different from GOT (in terms of production style)?

 

I understand the criticism of the Lan/Moiraine entrance looking a little cheesy/tropey. I’d just say two things:

 

(1) This may not be the identical scene from the show. It was meant as an intro for the actors at the NYCC panel.

 

(2) It will feel different when you have the full context of the episode - Rand seeing the Fade on the quarry road and Padan Fain’s troubling stories. 

[40man]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

I don’t understand what you mean by this. What does a USA network show look like? How is it different from GOT (in terms of production style)?

 

I understand the criticism of the Lan/Moiraine entrance looking a little cheesy/tropey. I’d just say two things:

 

(1) This may not be the identical scene from the show. It was meant as an intro for the actors at the NYCC panel.

 

(2) It will feel different when you have the full context of the episode - Rand seeing the Fade on the quarry road and Padan Fain’s troubling stories. 

Understood the production may be different, I hoped the same for Indy 4, which was worse than the previews. ?

 

As far as the USA, it felt more campy like any USA type series. Acting seemed poor, etc. Leans Seekerish vs GOT.

 

I hope the show itself is better than the glimpses the previews have shown.