An opinion on Nynaeve.

[loudbeak]

I think Nynaeve is arguably the second most important character in the series, here's why:

1. Saved Egwene (future Amyrlin) from the Seanchan. 
2. The first in the series to use balefire.
3. Bests Moghedien in Tanchico. retrieves male Adam, and seal. from out from under Lindrin's nose.
4. Captures Moghedien.
5. Instrumental in killing Rahvin.
6. Heals Stilling. 
7. Beats block, marries Lan, uses bowl of winds, and saves Kin and Wind Finders from Seanchan.
8. Cleanses Taint. Rand was channeling Saidin, but was passing it through Nynaeve' s Saidar filter.
9. Heals madness caused by taint.
10. Saves Rand in Bandar Eban
11. Keeps Rand's head from swelling to much.
12. Removes Compulsion.

All while being an Accepted! In the ring ceremony, the Aes Sedai hesitated to give her the ring. Claiming she was not worthy. She should have listed these achievements, and told them where they could stick their ring. then she should have gone to Myreille and taken Lan from her.

Lest I forget, through the use of her herbs on Alanna, SAVED THE  WORLD!

Making her second only to Rand, the most important character in the books. 

 

Your thoughts?

[Cass]

Absolutely (and neat summary ☺️). There's no doubt she's an incredibly pivotal character, and the storyline would have been lost without her - would Rand even have [spoiler] cleared OR survived the madness of the taint[/spoiler] without her, for example? ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

12 hours ago, loudbeak said:

The first in the series to use balefire.

I thought Moiraine was the first character to use balefire in the series? 

[loudbeak]

I think the first time Moraine used it was on the Darkhounds. Nynaeve used it on the Fades in the brigands camp. on their way to Tear. Chronologically I think its about the same time frame, as they all seem to get to tear at about the same time. I can't think of an earlier incident of it being used. It has been a while since I read the books.

Edited January 20, 2021 by loudbeak

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, loudbeak said:

I think the first time Moraine used it was on the Darkhounds. Nynaeve used it on the Fades in the brigands camp. on their way to Tear. Chronologically I think its about the same time frame, as they all seem to get to tear at about the same time. I can't think of an earlier incident of it being used. It has been a while since I read the books.

From what I recollect, Moiraine's first use in the main novels was on the Darkhouds, but I also don't even remember the first time Nyneave used it. Memories are fun that way.. 

I'm currently rereading TDR and should be getting to that point pretty soon in the next few days, so I'll keep an eye out for it. ?

[loudbeak]

God I don't want to start the books again they are so all consuming. they push everything else out of  the way. and there is so much good stuff out there to read. I think I've read the first six books more than ten times each, the rest less often but at least four to five. I started this addiction in the mid 90s.

[loudbeak]

Chapters 39 and 44 respectively in TDR 

[Harldin]

Probably her number one rival would be Egwene

1/Doesn’t give in to the Seanchan during her time as a Damane.

2/First AS Dreamer in 473 years.

3/Is seen by the Aiel as one of them following her time as a Wise One Apprentice.

4/Broke out of an illusion Orchestrated by Moghedien

5/Is raised to the Amyrlin Seat while still an accepted.

6/Rediscovers Travelling

7/Refuses to bend to Elaida despite everything Elaida does to break her gaining huge respect amongst many of the AS in the Tower.

8/Leads the Counter Attack that drove the Seanchan forces out of the Tower

9/Successfully re-unifies the Tower

10/Defeated Mesaana and a number of Black Ajah in the Tower

11/Defeats Taim and then destroys the Sharans by releasing the Flame of Tar Valon, ending her own life in a great sacrifice. 

[Thrasymachus]

Nah.  She's clearly #3.  Rand is a bit more important than her, it's almost negligible, really, but still there.  But nobody can beat the obvious #1.  Bela.

[Harldin]

1 hour ago, Thrasymachus said:

Nah.  She's clearly #3.  Rand is a bit more important than her, it's almost negligible, really, but still there.  But nobody can beat the obvious #1.  Bela.

But don’t forget as all true WOT fans believe,

Bella was the Creator in Disguise ??

[loudbeak]

Egwene achievements are impressive, but still doesn't beat healing Stilling. (unheard of in the age of legends) Nor do they compare to healing taint madness, and cleansing the taint.

 

Bella doesn't count she's the Creator. (Insurmountable advantage)

I read the story up to book 6 to my kids in the 90s. At that time that was as far as they went. That's when I first asked that question. "Do you think Bella's the creator?"   

[muddasssir]

Why can't we keep eggy out of it??????????

If you want to compare than obviously Nynaeve is one of the best written character in the book and Eggy the exalted hyena is the worst. Even the nameless myrdraal that chased Rand in the woods had better character development lol

[Elendir]

Nyn is in picture, not only because of her deeds, described in OP. She is second also in character development (after rand).

Bela as creator can has accomplished most, but she didn’t developed, when she started already perfect. It takes her out of picture from the books point of view.

 Egwene accomplished a lot, but against mortal enemy, not against dark one or probability itself. Egwene also go in negative way of character development. She lost more then she took by her way.

[mistborn82]

I believe Nyn and Moraine used balefire at more or less the same time though Moraine actually knew what she was doing. Nyneave is far better than Egwene because Nyn was much better written whereas Egwene was just handed everything. Also, unlike Nyneave struggling with her block for 7 books E never has any PTSD or other issues related to her torture by the seanchan.

[SinisterDeath]

43 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

Also, unlike Nyneave struggling with her block for 7 books E never has any PTSD or other issues related to her torture by the seanchan.

Yeah... that is patently false.

[mistborn82]

When do we see her struggling with nightmares, issues with channeling and the like. I'm not being sarcastic so could you point to some, maybe I've forgotten.

[Harldin]

3 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

I believe Nyn and Moraine used balefire at more or less the same time though Moraine actually knew what she was doing. Nyneave is far better than Egwene because Nyn was much better written whereas Egwene was just handed everything. Also, unlike Nyneave struggling with her block for 7 books E never has any PTSD or other issues related to her torture by the seanchan.

But not everyone suffers from PTSD in a given situation or it doesn’t come out till years or even decades later. Egwene never stops for the rest of her life, first the journey back to the Tower, then being raised to Accepted, then being sent after the BA, then the trip to Tear, then off to train with the Aiel, then the invasion of Carhien with the Aiel, then being injured on the Docks, then the Summons and being raised Amrylin, then the trip to Tar Valon to reunite the Tower, then her capture and mistreatment from the Tower AS, then defeating the Seanchan and Tower reunification, then dealing with the BA, then having to deal with Rand, then the final Battle.
Egwene was simply to busy to have time to suffer from PTSD.

 

PTSD tends to rear its ugly head after the war is over not while someone is still fighting that war, when they have returned and settled back into there normal lives. If Egwene had survived and returned to the WT, she may have suffered PTSD somewhere down the track.

 

 

[Elendir]

I don’t think, that mistborn82 asked that Egwene should suffering PTSD from captivity. It serves more as example, where can Egwene arc get some humanity in.

Egwene Mary Sue characteristic, and lack of empathy for her friend at the end, dehumanized her. It serves well for picture of Amrilyn, but It serves ill for her character arc.

 

We see Nyn and Rand struggle with their demons, and it give their characters human side.

Egwene miss this flavour and experience with Seanchan could serve here as well as something else.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Elendir

[SinisterDeath]

8 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

When do we see her struggling with nightmares, issues with channeling and the like. I'm not being sarcastic so could you point to some, maybe I've forgotten.

PTSD rears its head when she's confronted with being captured. Ever notice how angry she got in book 3 when confronted with the prospect of being captured (again)? Or the mention of Seanchan & Sul'Dam? When these events happen, it's usually not during her POV. This is relevant. 

 

PTSD isn't just nightmares, flashbacks, and debilitating anxiety attacks. It's there, if you actually care to look... and just like in reality, it doesn't manifest the same way for everybody. (Also what @Harldin said.)

 

People react differently to stressors, this can manifest in Fight, Flight, or Freeze responses. (Berelain has the 4th F response) 

[Rhettles]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:36 AM, Harldin said:

But don’t forget as all true WOT fans believe,

Bella was the Creator in Disguise ??

I'm sorry but you are wrong.  ?

BELA is the horse faced creator who magically appears in the most unlikely of places and saves all of Randland.

BELLA  is the horse faced emo girl who shags a shiny corpse then marries him right out of high school.  ???

[Pembie]

She’s my favourite character so far as well as Elyane and Egwene I’m confused over their story arc in lord of chaos 

 

Least favourite is Rand and I don’t get the hype over Morriane really 

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, Pembie said:

Least favourite is Rand and I don’t get the hype over Morriane really 

You don't have to.  We all have our favorites.

[Pembie]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

You don't have to.  We all have our favorites.

I like all the stuff about the dream world definitely my favourite storyline 

[DojoToad]

24 minutes ago, Pembie said:

I like all the stuff about the dream world definitely my favourite storyline 

Dang - the dream world is my least favorite.  But that's okay, plenty of other stuff to love.

[Pembie]

6 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Dang - the dream world is my least favorite.  But that's okay, plenty of other stuff to love.

Surely one of Nnyeve Egwene or Eylane are going to die there it’s mentioned so many times that can happen while there I don’t understand this whole magical bowl thing though which needs a man to channel too so it can change the wheather what has that got to do with getting the white tower back haha and why does Sasiuns group of adie sedi seem not to want to support Rand surely that’s the right thing to do it’s very confusing and most reviewers on YouTube say it’s a simple story maybe I’m just dim