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DRAGONMOUNT

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Mark R Mitchell

Should Elayne take over Mins role? Spoilers!

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I won't watch one minute of this series beyond the realization that she wasn't included - if that is what is occurring.   

 

This isn't something that I am giving a knee-jerk reaction about... I am willing to allow artistic license to a degree as well as changes necessary for change of medium, but dropping her character is way outside the degree I'm willing to go or accept as needed due to medium. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 2RiversFan said:

I won't watch one minute of this series beyond the realization that she wasn't included - if that is what is occurring.   

 

This isn't something that I am giving a knee-jerk reaction about... I am willing to allow artistic license to a degree as well as changes necessary for change of medium, but dropping her character is way outside the degree I'm willing to go or accept as needed due to medium. 

I can understand that sentiment.

 

I'd only suggest to give the first season a chance, as it's possible that if they don't cast her in season 1, they will/might in Season 2. (She has like 1 appearance in Book 1, but becomes more of a character in book 2.. Same with Elayne.)

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I would hate to see Min cut, but it would probably make the story more believable if she were a platonic friend that kept him grounded rather than a third (although truly first) love interest.  You can make a credible case for Elayne and Avi  agreeing sharing him, particularly if they are going to also be lovers in the show.  I think most of the audience will have a hard time seeing them agreeing to share him in a relationship where they are occasional booty calls while he lives with another woman.  Although it *might* work if they simply wanted to have the Dragon Reborn's children even though he was living his life with MIn.  Elayne wanting a Dragonblood heir for Andor and Avi wanting to secure his bloodline for the Aeil makes a certain amount of sense.  Especially if they actually love each other first and foremost and don't really want a man in their life.  It would be a big divergence from the books, but having Rand "love" all three and not be able to choose would make him a very unlikable character onscreen.

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That's a good point @Cheyboygan, especially since royalty did that sort of thing and why they all had a million affairs. You could have Avienda get pregnant from the Seanchan excursion and Elayne to tie the Dragon to Andor, even though he's half Andoran.

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21 hours ago, Cheyboygan said:

I would hate to see Min cut, but it would probably make the story more believable if she were a platonic friend that kept him grounded rather than a third (although truly first) love interest.  You can make a credible case for Elayne and Avi  agreeing sharing him, particularly if they are going to also be lovers in the show.  I think most of the audience will have a hard time seeing them agreeing to share him in a relationship where they are occasional booty calls while he lives with another woman.  Although it *might* work if they simply wanted to have the Dragon Reborn's children even though he was living his life with MIn.  Elayne wanting a Dragonblood heir for Andor and Avi wanting to secure his bloodline for the Aeil makes a certain amount of sense.  Especially if they actually love each other first and foremost and don't really want a man in their life.  It would be a big divergence from the books, but having Rand "love" all three and not be able to choose would make him a very unlikable character onscreen.

 

These are some great points. Especially about Rand coming across unlikable, and likely as a complete idiot who can't tell the difference between lust and love. 

 

The other issue is believability. A typical TV audience will likely care very little about Rand's flings from 4-5 years ago (possibly longer as time varies between season releases). Many would naturally assume Rand had moved past both Elayne and Aviendha, and a revisit that puts them at equal standing with Min would be an incredibly difficult thing to sell. Many book fans don't quite buy it. 

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I wonder if that was a leftover of the trilogy idea that RJ didn't know how to get out of when he expanded the books. Either way, I agree, the three in love with Rand, not to mention however they handle Lanfear, has to be scaled back.

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Due respect to all...I disagree.  I think people can handle a lot if your put it in the right way.  I also find it pretty Hilarious, that people can accept a 14-18 yo Murder Goddess in Arya Stark and do not bat an eye when she PWNED everyone that was on her "List" in the show, yet those same people went Ape$hit when she had Sex for the 1st time (and not even on screen).   

 

People were also "Cool" w/ Jamie & Cercei having Incest (On & Off Screen) when on GoT, and you didnt hear religious outcry or public outcry over that.  But Heaven forbit Rand have 3 Love interests & want to be w/ them Carnelly & Relationship wise?? GTFOH!! 

 

This 3some relationship will distinguish the show if they do it well & explain it well.  GoT was criticized for gratuitous sex for the first 2 seasons but people got over it, when the blood & violence took over.  WoT can distinguish itself by keeping the arcs & cultures and nuance that makes the books great w/ the right tweaks in the TV show.

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@Lancer, the thing is that Ice and Fire and WOT are different in that WOT is not as in you face as Ice and Fire about blood, sex and general crudity. I never watched the show, only listened to the first four books but I think WOT will want to appeal to a wider audience, which may mean fiddling with Rand's relationships.

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15 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

@Lancer, the thing is that Ice and Fire and WOT are different in that WOT is not as in you face as Ice and Fire about blood, sex and general crudity. I never watched the show, only listened to the first four books but I think WOT will want to appeal to a wider audience, which may mean fiddling with Rand's relationships.

But my point is why Fiddle at all?  If you read GoT, then you know that in the books it wasn't as overt for some of the T&A or LGBTQ stuff that was subtle in the books but BLATANT in the show.  I know that WoT is subtle, and may be more Blatant for a TV audience, and I am saying that you can do the relationships but you do NOT have to change stuff.   Keep it all, distinguish yourself from GoT by having a 3-Way Love interest.   There wasn't any 4-Way action anywhere in there so why do we have to have 1 guy, 1 woman and that is the Main person & then have 2 Great friends?  Part of Rand's growth/turmoil is Because has has 3 Love interests and he doesn't want any of them in danger.

 

(WOOOO HOOOOO 100 POSTS!!) 😄

Edited by Lancer

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Setting aside morality or viewers sensibilities, the  three loves were one of the most stupid and annoying plot lines in the books and probably would be in the show.  Its possible that the show could do it better than the books, but they would have to do it ALOT better to be worth including it.  Rand and Elayne basically had a few weeks of teen flirtation in Tear and then hooked up for one night much later....as their entire relationship.  Avi spent a lot of time with him at one point, but most of it was not romantic.  Then when they met after a long absence  they basically ignored each other. Then one more night together before the last battle.  Min was the only one he had anything resembling a normal relationship with.

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1 hour ago, Cheyboygan said:

Setting aside morality or viewers sensibilities, the  three loves were one of the most stupid and annoying plot lines in the books and probably would be in the show.  Its possible that the show could do it better than the books, but they would have to do it ALOT better to be worth including it.  Rand and Elayne basically had a few weeks of teen flirtation in Tear and then hooked up for one night much later....as their entire relationship.  Avi spent a lot of time with him at one point, but most of it was not romantic.  Then when they met after a long absence  they basically ignored each other. Then one more night together before the last battle.  Min was the only one he had anything resembling a normal relationship with.

However this is a different reason than should Rand have 3 lovers argument.  I get that some people wouldn't like the 3 romance plot in the story, and I can respect that.  And maybe the show can do it better.  I just don't think they should junk it, just to junk it because people wouldn't accept it.

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Some viewers for better or worse are going to be offended, more will probably think it's stupid and almost no one will understand the mythology. Rand is cool, Matt is a one-eyed battle genius and Perrin has a cool hammer and stuff, also the women and later men have cool magic. That's how most viewers will know the series, not the underlying mythology and the three few will see the significance. I know a little about myth, have learned more and I barely understand it.

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On 2/26/2020 at 4:39 PM, Lancer said:

However this is a different reason than should Rand have 3 lovers argument.  I get that some people wouldn't like the 3 romance plot in the story, and I can respect that.  And maybe the show can do it better.  I just don't think they should junk it, just to junk it because people wouldn't accept it.

 

I think they should junk it because it's a stupid plotline, terribly developed in the books themselves, and a waste of time to adapt when they have 14 books worth of material and limited screentime.

 

I'll have to disagree with your earlier point about the 3 love interests playing a huge role in Rand's development, because (aside from Min) it was mainly Egwene, then Moiraine, and finally Nynaeve as the three women driving Rand's development. The roles Elayne and Aviendha played pale in comparison.

 

Drawing comparisons to GoT and all the salacious romances there doesn't quite work IMO. The twincest drove the main plotline, and was a relationship that tied to the core of Jamie's character development. It was impossible to drop. Rand's harem in no way compares. If the show had unlimited screentime and the main plot of the series hugely depended on Rand's harem, I would see the argument for including it. But neither are true. There's also the difference of how fascinating and well developed Cersei/Jaime were (up to book 4), versus the mess that is Rand and his harem and possibly the weakest part of WoT. 

Edited by Carebear Sedai

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I am not a supporter of fundamental storyline changes.

However as I read, I wanted Rand to take Min with him at the end.

Elayn could marry her empire and Aviendha her pride. They are far ahead of Rand for both.

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 10:37 PM, Carebear Sedai said:

 

I think they should junk it because it's a stupid plotline, terribly developed in the books themselves, and a waste of time to adapt when they have 14 books worth of material and limited screentime.

 

I'll have to disagree with your earlier point about the 3 love interests playing a huge role in Rand's development, because (aside from Min) it was mainly Egwene, then Moiraine, and finally Nynaeve as the three women driving Rand's development. The roles Elayne and Aviendha played pale in comparison.

 

Drawing comparisons to GoT and all the salacious romances there doesn't quite work IMO. The twincest drove the main plotline, and was a relationship that tied to the core of Jamie's character development. It was impossible to drop. Rand's harem in no way compares. If the show had unlimited screentime and the main plot of the series hugely depended on Rand's harem, I would see the argument for including it. But neither are true. There's also the difference of how fascinating and well developed Cersei/Jaime were (up to book 4), versus the mess that is Rand and his harem and possibly the weakest part of WoT. 

 

I think what many miss is that Rand is not a normal man. He is the champion of the light destined to be spun out once again when the pattern needs him. That is why he was destined to have three loves he loved equally and that is why he could not choose between them.

 

Some choose to regard this as offensive. But it is equally clear how none of the women involved are willing to let a man get between them and their friendships.

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On 9/6/2019 at 11:57 AM, solarz said:

Why not keep Min and cut out Elayne and Aviendha instead?

 

Rand doesn't really need Aviendha to be tied to the Aiel, she can easily be replaced by a gaggle of Wise Ones.

 

Elayne really does nothing for Rand except argue with him at the Last Battle. Rand really did not have any political ties to Andor except a brief occupation period. You could take away the Rand/Elayne romance and nothing in the plot would change.

 

Min is the only romance partner for Rand that acts like a romantic interest throughout the series. She is his rock, his tie to humanity. Min was there when Rand was abducted by the Aes Sedai. Min was there when Rand went on the lam, and Min was there at Rand's darkest moments and still there when Rand returned from Dragonmount.

I agree entirely. Min is arguably the 2nd most important character after Rand in saving the world. Without rand the dark one defeats all. Without Min Rand destroys the world. 

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On 12/10/2019 at 4:33 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I can understand that sentiment.

 

I'd only suggest to give the first season a chance, as it's possible that if they don't cast her in season 1, they will/might in Season 2. (She has like 1 appearance in Book 1, but becomes more of a character in book 2.. Same with Elayne.)

i feel the same way. if she is cut completely it will destroy alot of what i made sense of in the entire series. i do understand how it may need to be rewritten abit and can deal with her coming into the story later but not so late that they have to rush their relationship status in order to fit chronological timelines. Min is a minor story line up until crown of swords when she really becomes very important in rands sanity. im guessing thatll be around season 3 maybe 4 so id hope to see her involvement a season or 2 prior for character development. i have faith at the moment but would be lying if i said i wasnt concerned for not seeing a casting role for Min at this time or any word of her involvement in the series. fingers crossed.

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On 9/18/2019 at 11:01 AM, mistborn82 said:

@JagloverYou're absolutely right, transgender is a fad and I'm sure the people who are transgender only do it so they can be harassed, thrown out of their homes by so-called christian parents, likened to sexual predators by political figures or killed.

The producers are making the show their way and all the so-called fans who disagree with their direction on some form of bigoted grounds, can get up the money, buy the rights and recast everyone as a WASP.

please keep woke american politics out of WoT. keep true to the fantasy story and fans. if they feel they need to change the characters sexuality the show will be doomed catering to the minority for that. i for 1 DO NOT want to hear american pc culture in this tale what so ever. 

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4 hours ago, AB0L1SH33D said:

please keep woke american politics out of WoT. keep true to the fantasy story and fans. if they feel they need to change the characters sexuality the show will be doomed catering to the minority for that. i for 1 DO NOT want to hear american pc culture in this tale what so ever. 

100% agree. That would wreck the show in my opinion. We want to escape to Randland.

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