Should Elayne take over Mins role? Spoilers!

[James al'Dylan]

Well I wish I hadn’t mentioned it now. I do think, however, that if you are wishing for a book adaptation where all characters are exactly as you saw them in the book then you’re going to be disappointed. The art of telling the story on TV, and for an audience in 2019, will entail changes to story arcs, characters, and even some end points possibly. In order for the series to be commissioned beyond one series they will need to reach a broad audience. 

[Jaglover]

3 minutes ago, James al'Dylan said:

Well I wish I hadn’t mentioned it now. I do think, however, that if you are wishing for a book adaptation where all characters are exactly as you saw them in the book then you’re going to be disappointed. The art of telling the story on TV, and for an audience in 2019, will entail changes to story arcs, characters, and even some end points possibly. In order for the series to be commissioned beyond one series they will need to reach a broad audience. 

I entirely agree that they need to reach a broad audience rather than a narrow one. GOT managed to reach a broad audience and had gay characters.

 

As pointed out in prior posts Min can also be part of achieving a broad audience as she is a more relatable character than many. 

 

There are clear areas where they can bring out a LGBT element without derailing the core story. Whether that be the pillow friends of the Aes Sedai, or by making a character like Galad gay. 

[Carebear Sedai]

Being LGBT isn't a deterrent to Min being relatable. If anything, a non-binary character feeling like an outsider in Randland's strict gender divisions (which includes the quality of one's soul) will make her more relatable as opposed to less.  

 

I don't even think Min identifying as non-binary will be too much of divergence from the books. The Elmindreda episode practically read as her assigning more than comfort to breeches/short hair over pretty dresses. If it was only ever about the clothes, then she'd likely be inclined to put fancy gowns on rare occasions, as most fictional tomboys do. But even when Min dresses up, she chooses to wear fancy suits.  

 

And let's not conflate sexuality with gender identity. Min could very well be non-binary while exclusively attracted to cis men. It would certainly add an interesting layer to Rand/Min.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Carebear Sedai

[JJLXL]

You can't get rid of Min.  She has her special viewings that help throughout the series quite a bit.  Elayne can't also take on that role.  Her and Min were rarely in the same places, especially when a lot of the important viewings happen.

 

 

[wotfan4472]

Min's book relationship needs to be present, not just for all the big moments, like Dumais Wells, but also for what Semirhage does to Rand. He literally loses his hand for Min, and then the collaring that Semirhage does later. Those two things are immensely important to his character growth in the later story. It will not make sense with anyone if it is Elayne or Aviendha in those positions, because it would not make sense. They would expect Elayne or Aviendha to stop Semirhage each time using the One Power in each instance. Min is there in those moments to show the Shadow will do anything to get their way. And Rand in turn must prove that he is prepared to do anything to stop it.

 

By the way, if the show does not follow the story events, then Lord Of The Rings is still the most superior book adaptation we have ever gotten in a movie or tv show. This show becomes a project based on the books, not an adaptation, which is vastly different in approach.

Edited October 12, 2019 by wotfan4472

[Elendir]

Min is the key character ( in contrast to mighty  Elayne) for victory in the last battle and Rand's way to it. Min as a friend couldn't do it.

And since when a woman wear pants, it makes her transgender?

[Bard29]

Min a key character for winning the last battle ? Rand, Mat and Perrin är key characters for winning the last battle. 

[James al'Dylan]

7 hours ago, Elendir said:

Min is the key character ( in contrast to mighty  Elayne) for victory in the last battle and Rand's way to it. Min as a friend couldn't do it.

And since when a woman wear pants, it makes her transgender?

I guess, reluctantly, I’m going to come back to this. Given that it’s an adaptation, and the way gender identity is currently being represented in film/TV; all I’m saying in previous posts is that Min’s character could be portrayed differently to the ‘Tom boy’ she’s shown as in the earlier books. I’ll be super happy, just so long as Min is there and being baddass. I was a bit annoyed that at the end she kinda got given as a slave/servant of the Empress (wtf!). It didn’t feel like a great ending for her.

[Carebear Sedai]

4 hours ago, James al'Dylan said:

I was a bit annoyed that at the end she kinda got given as a slave/servant of the Empress (wtf!). It didn’t feel like a great ending for her.

 

It wasn't much better than the most speculated ending for her by the fandom, which was to go off and live in Emond's Field as Rand's wife on the Al'Thor farm. Because up to AMOL Min had no real aspirations or direction in life beyond fulfilling Rand's wants and desires. It would have been interesting if she was allowed a richer existence beyond Rand, perhaps planning to continue her study of philosophy and wished to lecture at one of Rand's universities. Or even to trade horses, since that was an interest of hers earlier on that got dropped in the later books.

[Elendir]

19 hours ago, Bard29 said:

Min a key character for winning the last battle ? Rand, Mat and Perrin är key characters for winning the last battle. 

 

If you want the closest circle of people needed to defeat the dark one (except for the dragon itself), it's besides Mat and Perin, also Nynaeve and Moiraine. Min, unlike them, did not participate directly in the duel, but without it, the fight would either be unsuccessful or victory would be as bad as losing.

[mistborn82]

@Carebear SedaiI've seen it said on here that Min was a walking, talking plot device but it didn't sink in until just now. I agree that keeping Min is a good idea but also she needs to have actual self-determining purpose as I don't know how well the forced relationship thing would work

[Bard29]

What was it Min did that was so important that if she didn't do it the Dark One would win the last battle ?  

[solarz]

15 hours ago, Carebear Sedai said:

Because up to AMOL Min had no real aspirations or direction in life beyond fulfilling Rand's wants and desires.

 

She literally complained (mostly to herself) for 4 books about how she was being jerked around by fate and loving Rand was not something she was planning on doing. I'd say that's plenty of personal aspirations right there.

 

The difference between her and Elayne is that Min put aside her own desires in order to help Rand save the world. In this aspect, she is very much like Rand himself.

[mistborn82]

It's never exactly clear but I don't think Min had a choice. Her viewings always happen

[Jaglover]

9 hours ago, Bard29 said:

What was it Min did that was so important that if she didn't do it the Dark One would win the last battle ?  

 

She tried to keep Rand human. Elayne and Aviendha were off having baths together so without her he might well have succumbed to his growing darkness.  

[Bard29]

45 minutes ago, Jaglover said:

 

She tried to keep Rand human. Elayne and Aviendha were off having baths together so without her he might well have succumbed to his growing darkness.  

Elayne and Aviendha were of to change the weather back to normal, either they do that or everyone will die of thirst and there wont be a last battle. Min is an important character but to say she is a key character to winning the last battle like Rand, Mat and Perrin is wrong. 

[MasterAblar]

4 hours ago, Bard29 said:

Elayne and Aviendha were of to change the weather back to normal, either they do that or everyone will die of thirst and there wont be a last battle. Min is an important character but to say she is a key character to winning the last battle like Rand, Mat and Perrin is wrong. 

 

No one compared Min to Rand, Mat, and Perrin...

[Elendir]

16 hours ago, Bard29 said:

What was it Min did that was so important that if she didn't do it the Dark One would win the last battle ?  

 

One world -"Callandor".

 

It is not written directly in the book, but there is enough hint. Who came up with the way of using Callandor in the final battle?

They couldn't write it to us before the moment of truth, obviously.

 

[mistborn82]

Min did discover Callandor was two sa'angreal and I'd still like to know how they did that other than having a forsaken present.

I think Min will still be there but reworked as more than an appendage of Rand. That whole Tower thing might be dropped too since it does absolutely nothing other than try to make her look like their version of female. If the Suian/Leanna plot lines continues, I think the showrunners could rework it.

[Elendir]

Initial post should be: who would you cut, if you have to? Min or Elayne.

The series then could continue with another episodes.

Cutting of Gawyn or Galad, Amys or Bair, Naelsan or Edorian, Sulin or Nandera ……

 

PS. Cutting from series, not with knife

Edited November 4, 2019 by Elendir

[mistborn82]

We had this discussion about Gawyn and I think most are in agreement, he needs to stay until that duel between him, Galad and Mat. I favor him dying in the tower fighting then as he serves absolutely no purpose after the duel withe Mat.

[wotfan4472]

That is another massive reason Min must stay. She discovers that Callandor is a True Power sa'angreal. 

No one else discovered that secret. Cadsuaine would not have figured it out in time, since no records exist in the Tower that has that information, since no one could study it for three thousand years.

Aviendha would not work this out, and Elayne would not have either.

No one even knew that Callandor could inhance the taint's effects when chanelling saidin, still less that it lacks the buffer of other sa'angreal.

[Sabio]

On 9/3/2019 at 3:45 PM, DemandredFO said:

Mine too, only after the rebellion he takes up space for more important events.

They could kill him in every episode then bring him back with balefire so he can die in the next episode.  

[mistborn82]

That works too

 

[Thrasymachus]

That Min discovers Callandor's true purpose is way down on the list for reasons to keep her.  Almost anyone else could do that.  Hell, that could even be given to Moiraine when she comes back from the Finns.  There's no good reason that particular nugget has to come from Min.  

 

The reason to keep Min is that she plays an integral part in Rand's personal development.  If you cut Min, Rand's story from Cairhein on, as well as the motivations for his actions, would change dramatically.  Much the same can be said for Elayne and Aviendha, though for Elayne that part is characterized by her absence from Rand's life than from her presence in it, while Aviendha is one of forming a bond that overcomes even great initial aversion.  It's Jordan's take on the tri-partite goddess and her relationships to the god; the Maiden, Mother, Crone.  Aviendha, the Maiden, is a relationship based on pursuit and passion.  Elayne, the Mother, is a relationship fundamentally based on practicality.  There's an obvious physical and emotional attraction there, but Elayne is also moved by forging strong ties between Andor and the Dragon Reborn, and guiding him so he is fit to rule.  Min, the Crone, is a relationship grounded in familiarity, comfort and wise advice.  Of the Three, she understands him best and "fits" him best.  None of the Three can really be cut, though certain aspects of their individual story arcs could probably be trimmed up or spiced up a bit.

 

Gawyn and Galad can't really be cut either, nor combined.  People may not appreciate the role Gawyn plays in Egwene's later character development, many people don't appreciate Egwene's character at all, so it rather makes sense that they undervalue those essential elements of it.  Some of her scenes could probably stand to be altered or removed to make her more sympathetic to her most ardent critics, but Gawyn poses an interesting obstacle for her later character development, and it's one that's ultimately responsible for the climax of her story arc.  I don't think Gawyn can be cut.  Galad can be cut, but only on the proviso that Morgase is also cut, and much of Perrin's story is way trimmed down, probably eliminating the Whitecloaks as on ongoing concern after the liberation of the Two Rivers.  And I don't think he should be, because he's essential to Mat's first moment of badassery, and the redemption of the Whitecloaks is a good story.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Thrasymachus