You're In Good Hands: The Beau Tomteer Law Firm Mafia GAME THREAD

[darc-star]

14 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

 

Because I wanted to see who would get pissed off and who would follow.  And honestly, if it's not me today, you would probably be my 2nd choice.  

 

i remember last time you voted me for reactions, and nothing happened there either

nobody cares what happens to me =(

except you, and i think im ok with that

 

but me being second is kinda worrying... i didnt think your reads really matched mine that well?

 

would you consider voting dice?

[Cass]

/split from prev

 

11 minutes ago, seph said:

I actually want to reread here but I didn’t ever think he exaggerated while defending himself towards your wording. 

For me the gist of '~After EoD I made posts and that's what ultimately got Hallia chosen for the lynch'/the focus on his self-pres, and skipping Clov pushing Halli in the first instance/Tripped making an entire case rubbed me some. I read it as exaggeration tbh but re-writing it here I'm not convinced it isn't a personality/timing thing - @Andrej, thoughts?

 

(Irrespective of this, I'm not liking the 'vote me' etc focus, and agree with darc on the attitude not being helpful for Town)

 

@darc-star and @Clovdyx and @dicetosser1 (and @Nynaeve if you've played with him) - does this fit with frustrated town and/or the burnt-out-Scum theory from earlier following the last game mentioned?

[Cass]

11 minutes ago, seph said:

This post bothers me. It’s not that I don’t think cass would be a good choice, but clov has literally been diligent and then some this phase. If anybody literally thinks he is mafia then you have not been paying attention this game.

if I’m mafia I’m clov is 100% dead (spin this how you want) he should be accused because no one in this thread is putting up half the effort this dude is and I honestly want him to get the final say, as well as hear his closing words before he is killed.

^

This sounds pretty heartfelt righteous TownSeph imo - (@ Seph, assuming you mean he should be 'accuser' rather than 'accused'. ?). 

 

I can understand AJ's resistance from both Town/Mafia perspectives really though.

 

11 minutes ago, seph said:

 

he has been Suss of aj and I honestly would have felt better about aj if he had nominated clov here instead because it would have shown a towny mindset even in the face of accusation.

 

Agree with the bold - and, as an alternative, maybe Darc.

 

Tbh, if I was accused/being seriously lined up as such, I'd be annoyed at the idea unless I thought there was a good chance the Accuser was Scum, and resisting the idea from the get-go either way - preferring to look towards finding a wolf. If I were Wolf I'd be twisting and defending and resisting. Need to read back, not really sure which AJ is doing here.

 

?Possibly trying to divert from himself to BWN as a focus? OTOH, I feel like his focus has been wider than that - also including Lenlo/Nyn to start with at least.

 

@Andrej got any thoughts on the order of who you would accuse/who's in your Town core and why?

Where are you at with Darc?

[Cass]

 

11 minutes ago, seph said:

The one where she talks about his tone after he only talked about set up. And he said hit take afterward. Each time I read it, it bothers me more.

 

I tone-read that as genuine (AJ's part, Halli's was a 'she might be thinking it in either alignment but possi-buddy motive'), not sure if it's something WolfAJ says to WolfHalli ITT?

What about her reaction (can't tell if you're serious, I do ❤️ you though' - or similar? and his 'No, I really liked it'/hinging his positive read of her on this? Is that a WW thing or #pocketed IYO?

 

The one thing that makes me pause is the vote/AJ risking NL for a read - unless he felt righteous in it or Scum were deliberately splitting votes to different corners. 

 

11 minutes ago, seph said:

honestly this is where I am with hallia teammates.

aj- likely imo, interactions d1 and my personal opinion he is mafia without those interactions.

 

dice-possible but with recent aj interactions I feel like that could be the team. I think he has fallen off since d1 so not sure I want to lynch him today or anything but if aj is scum would look at. (Not teamed with nyn)

 

kat- possible she could just be struggling which I have seen before. Content isn’t where I would like it. Wouldn’t oppose currently.

 

nyn- slight possibility would want to lynch

lynch if kat was a wolf, would need to look at aj/ her interaction but don’t remember anything

 

i honestly don’t think I want to lynch anyone besides aj/kat today I will reread penguin now and see if what aj is saying was true. Maybe I am looking at the wrong side of the coin here but I haven’t been bothered by penguins posts.

?

 

Seph, can you answer my previous questions about Nyn pls? (WRT her tone?)

Why would you want to lynch Nyn if Kat flips wolf?

 

IIRC most of Nyn-AJ reaction was lols and cheek at the start of D1, AJ mentioning the more time for Nyn, D2 AJ sussing Nyn for her entry, some cheek between them throughout. I think I can see that from a WV buddying aspect more than a WW ITT thing.

 

WRT Dice, I'm not sure he'd put his partner Town so easily/generally as he seems to have done for AJ this phase.

[darc-star]

4 minutes ago, Cass said:

/split from prev

 

For me the gist of '~After EoD I made posts and that's what ultimately got Hallia chosen for the lynch'/the focus on his self-pres, and skipping Clov pushing Halli in the first instance/Tripped making an entire case rubbed me some. I read it as exaggeration tbh but re-writing it here I'm not convinced it isn't a personality/timing thing - @Andrej, thoughts?

 

(Irrespective of this, I'm not liking the 'vote me' etc focus, and agree with darc on the attitude not being helpful for Town)

 

@darc-star and @Clovdyx and @dicetosser1 (and @Nynaeve if you've played with him) - does this fit with frustrated town and/or the burnt-out-Scum theory from earlier following the last game mentioned?

 

unfortunately, i think it fits with both, and it also fits with his personality and him being busy again

im definitely not giving him any town points for it though as it isnt far off last game where he was scum

 

eod1 and early d2 he was trending up a little bit, but now hes falling back on just defending himself and keeping a very narrow focus

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Darc (1) - Clov

Cass (1) - AJ

Clov (1) - Seph

Dice (2) - Dice, Nyn

 

Not Voting: Darc, Lenlo, Cass, Illian, Kat, Penguins

 

 

DEADLINE DEC 4TH 9PM EST

 

Roughly 8.5 hous from now

[darc-star]

well, its coming up 3am

will try to get up early for eod, but last time i did that i fell back asleep before finishing my reply

 

would be happy with chris as accuser, and it might be fun to vote him for wagons

but then i cant figure out if wagons are even useful here, and iirc, dices reads match mine more

vote dice

 

lol, last time i did that was by hand, but finally noticed the editor (or maybe thats because im on pc this time)

couldnt find plain red, but did find a cool pumpkin colour (that isnt green or orange, strangely enough), hopefully pale red is ok

 

[Cass]

 

2 hours ago, Lenlo said:

Its very simple. I didn't care who you accused, I trusted you more than I did Tripped at that moment. Thats it. Part of it was who was backing you and who was backing her. Its all very simple, I don't understand why this is a hangup.

 

Was I wrong to put some trust your way? Is this your turnaround? Whats the deal here Cass?

 

1 hour ago, Lenlo said:

This game can be very simple at times. Over thinking things has lost a good number of games. Somestimes, the most obvious answer is in fact correct.

 

It wasn't so much a hangup as looking back after the flip and exploring something that felt uncomfortable?

 

Your 'Was I wrong to put some trust your way? Is this your turnaround? What's the deal here Cass?'  bold in the first quote seems twisty in response to that imo, like you're trying to change the focus back to me but don't really believe it? and I'm not sure whether the second is trying to sweep under the carpet or is just general commenting/belief wrt style.

 

What do you mean by 'turnaround'?

[seph]

Darc is there any reason you are not following up with me towards anything? I need to check what your doing with penguin but It honestly feels like your just carrying over your d1 reads with 0 evaluation after a wolf flip.

i have tried to engage you multiple times and it seems you ignore my responses and in turn just end up accusing me of the exact same thing and it’s rather irritating.

 

if I missed anything in my quotes from earlier you keep bringing up please show me because I don’t appreciate the low blow earlier. And I’m pretty sure I got your two reads from your day 1 before I asked you.

 

 

 

[Lenlo]

Your right, that wording was twisty, my bad.

 

The question wasnt meant to be a "Why are you acting so wolfy now Cass?" it was more supposed to ask, why is my putting some trust in you at that point so apparently concerning. I was trying to ask why my voting you to be accuser instead of Tripped is apparently so ping worthy. Ill admit I was a little salty at the time cause work was bein annoyin so I was a bit sharp with you. At the time it was supposed to double as a jab of "Are you a wolf Cass, should I not trust you? Is that why your so hung up on this, cause you know your a wolf and dont trust people who put trust in you? /s". But as you said, thats pretty twisty and I don't actually believe it. 

 

But that was the purpose of the question. I thought I was being clear and took a jab while annoyed. Apparently I wasn't and it came across twisty.

[Cass]

29 minutes ago, darc-star said:

 

would you consider voting dice?

I know this was to Clov, but FWIW neither Nyn or Dice are screaming their usual TOWN!selves to me yet, and I don't think I'm comfortable with either of them enough yet to put them in that position. Dice is trending up with some of his comments from earlier, but he's not TOWNDICEONATARGET - I'm not sure if he's found a lock yet, nor do I think he'll 'case' it out when he does?

 

17 minutes ago, darc-star said:

 

unfortunately, i think it fits with both, and it also fits with his personality and him being busy again

im definitely not giving him any town points for it though as it isnt far off last game where he was scum

 

eod1 and early d2 he was trending up a little bit, but now hes falling back on just defending himself and keeping a very narrow focus

Ta, and I agree, but am unsure on the RL sitch.

Is he one to let RL rule his commentary more when Town and/or Scum, IYO?

 

4 minutes ago, darc-star said:

well, its coming up 3am

will try to get up early for eod, but last time i did that i fell back asleep before finishing my reply

 

would be happy with chris as accuser, and it might be fun to vote him for wagons

but then i cant figure out if wagons are even useful here, and iirc, dices reads match mine more

vote dice

 

lol, last time i did that was by hand, but finally noticed the editor (or maybe thats because im on pc this time)

couldnt find plain red, but did find a cool pumpkin colour (that isnt green or orange, strangely enough), hopefully pale red is ok

 

<.<

Looks red to me...

Why Dice over yourself?

 

 

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Darc (1) - Clov

Cass (1) - AJ

Clov (1) - Seph

Dice (3) - Dice, Nyn, Darc

 

Not Voting: Lenlo, Cass, Illian, Kat, Penguins

 

 

DEADLINE DEC 4TH 9PM EST

 

Roughly 8 hous from now

 

[Katiora]

8 hours ago, Cass said:

I kinda believe the bold. Didn't you say you didn't want to lynch her D1 though? I think that would be a plausible thing for you/anyone to say as WW and still maintain distance?

 

I would not have mentioned her unless directly confronted with her to begin with. 

 

 

Ok I haven't had time to do diddly today because I was attacked by work on the way to work this morning  I am doing my best to catch up and finish my re-read... It's finally kinda quiet, so fingers crossed it stays that way. Give me a few to read what's been posted since I got off  yesterday and I'll try to give some thoughts, though they will be very bleh.

 

Cass on the other thing I saw from you asking me. With the votes last night I honestly don't get a lot of information from it. No one is forced to reason out their vote and be asked questions about it during the voting process. It's going to be harder to find fallacies in someone's reasoning, which is something I use. A lot of the time in this game scum is just going to say, "well i agreed with so-and-so's reasoning on their case so I voted" but they won't really put forth any evidence themselves.  The one BAD thing about Hallia being scum is no one is saying "THIS" is why I voted for her. Honestly I think most people voted for her because she was the one that was selected and they didn't want a no lynch on D1. With her being wolf it's hard to question anyone on WHY. Does that make sense?? I mean I've given my reasoning on why I would have voted no. Honestly Chris seems to think that is scummy, which is kinda ironic for me. But at least I have a reason for my thought process and have stuck with it, even after she turned scum. 

 

 

[Cass]

2 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Your right, that wording was twisty, my bad.

 

The question wasnt meant to be a "Why are you acting so wolfy now Cass?" it was more supposed to ask, why is my putting some trust in you at that point so apparently concerning. I was trying to ask why my voting you to be accuser instead of Tripped is apparently so ping worthy. Ill admit I was a little salty at the time cause work was bein annoyin so I was a bit sharp with you. At the time it was supposed to double as a jab of "Are you a wolf Cass, should I not trust you? Is that why your so hung up on this, cause you know your a wolf and dont trust people who put trust in you? /s". But as you said, thats pretty twisty and I don't actually believe it. 

 

But that was the purpose of the question. I thought I was being clear and took a jab while annoyed. Apparently I wasn't and it came across twisty.

 

 

 

I've touched on why I was uncomfortable being quick-voted in that position, especially against a player like Tripped, who IMO had a better hold/approach/way of considering the game.

 

Your initial 'Cass is enthusiastic/working' is flattering, but IMO your style is maybe more mechanical/in line with Tripped's?

 

So being put there with 'I'll vote her "to break the tie" ' followed by reasons of 'enthusiasm/work' vs. Tripped's approach, then #competition! - creating a tie when you'd already mentioned also being fine with Tripped (but uncomfortable with those putting her there?)- feels ~weak/'ping-worthy'.

[Lenlo]

I very much prefer clear cut logic and order, yes. If you wanna call that mechanical, be my guest. I assume or want reasons behind everything people do in game. 

[Cass]

1 minute ago, Katiora said:

I would not have mentioned her unless directly confronted with her to begin with. 

 

 

Ok I haven't had time to do diddly today because I was attacked by work on the way to work this morning  I am doing my best to catch up and finish my re-read... It's finally kinda quiet, so fingers crossed it stays that way. Give me a few to read what's been posted since I got off  yesterday and I'll try to give some thoughts, though they will be very bleh.

 

Cass on the other thing I saw from you asking me. With the votes last night I honestly don't get a lot of information from it. No one is forced to reason out their vote and be asked questions about it during the voting process. It's going to be harder to find fallacies in someone's reasoning, which is something I use. A lot of the time in this game scum is just going to say, "well i agreed with so-and-so's reasoning on their case so I voted" but they won't really put forth any evidence themselves.  The one BAD thing about Hallia being scum is no one is saying "THIS" is why I voted for her. Honestly I think most people voted for her because she was the one that was selected and they didn't want a no lynch on D1. With her being wolf it's hard to question anyone on WHY. Does that make sense?? I mean I've given my reasoning on why I would have voted no. Honestly Chris seems to think that is scummy, which is kinda ironic for me. But at least I have a reason for my thought process and have stuck with it, even after she turned scum. 

 

 

 

You said the Q WORD!!! ? 

 

WRT finding fallacies being something you'd use - kinda what I was getting at with asking you about it. I would've expected you to maybe question BASED on that, even though the mechanics are different, and the second bold ~kinda makes sense, except people ARE/have/should be able to give reasons as to why - so the potential value in questioning is essentially the same?

[Cass]

3 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

I very much prefer clear cut logic and order, yes. If you wanna call that mechanical, be my guest. I assume or want reasons behind everything people do in game. 

 

I mean mechanical as in game-savvy approach/understanding Eg. logically working through the background links of the game - possible partners from early on etc. 

 

I feel like you and Tripped (and many others here) are of that ilk, and so I find it surprising/unusual when you'd bypass supporting that for someone like

 

When someone like Tripped/Clov is available.

[Lenlo]

Im not gonna support someone just because they have a similar process to me. Process & Content are independent. 

 

Besides, I acknowledge im not very good at this game. So I have no problem trusting other methods. Also I would have preferred Clov. Aside from Illian he is my top town read so far. But didnt and still doesnt want it.

[Katiora]

1 minute ago, Cass said:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

You said the Q WORD!!! ? 

 

 

 

WRT finding fallacies being something you'd use - kinda what I was getting at with asking you about it. I would've expected you to maybe question BASED on that, even though the mechanics are different, and the second bold ~kinda makes sense, except people ARE/have/should be able to give reasons as to why - so the potential value in questioning is essentially the same?

but see there comes in the problem with knowing the outcome of the vote. It's easier to come up with a logical explanation when you already know the outcome, especially when we get a wolf. 

 

 

Honestly right now, based on interactions and tones I really like you (Cass), Clov, probably Darcstar though I don't know them very well but based purely on "content" and effort, I'm less sure about Dice. Nyn I still WANT to believe, but I don't feel sure of at all. AJ I almost think we should lynch just because he scares me but he's POSSIBLY Town. Dice feels a lot like he did last game which makes me WANT to think he's town. And we know that ummmm the new person is town. I can't remember which one it is and I don't think I've seen any posts really so far lol though I haven't caught up reading yet. I don't understand why suddenly everyone is voting Dice to Accuse. Hopefully I'll catch that when I finish catching up my read. The rest of everyone it's a blur to me that I'm just not sure about. I'm also afraid that there's at least one deep wolf in the group of people I just mentioned.

 

 

But if I had to post a list right now just for kicks: 

 

New Person <.< is it Illian?? <.<

Kat

Clov

Cass

Darc

Dice

 

AJ

Nyn

 

Everyone else. 

 

Honestly I would probably be willing to vote anyone in this section as long as their was a proper, logical case built against them. Though with a proper rebuttal with good reasoning on someone else being scum I could be convinced No as well. 

 

 

Cory I really hate your game... This takes way more thought than I really want to put into it for now  lol jk... kinda... lool  

[Katiora]

1 hour ago, Clovdyx said:

 

"But Chris, why would you do these things?"

 

Because I'm probably the easiest person in the world to vote right now, so many reads are fairly consensus, and this setup is damn hard to get productive dialogue going.  Whoever gets voted - me or otherwise - basically needs spot on reads (notnreally because we have mislynches to give, but you get my point).  VCA is going to be harder than ever and I'd like to optimize their/my decision

SO MUCH THIS

[Cass]

Gut right now would have me agree with 

 

Clov

?Darc

 

As Accusers, in that order. Scary thing there is I think a deal of my trust in Darc is coming from Clov/some absorbed consensus - though her recent responses to me have filled in gaps/provided info. WIFOMing about the 'trash read' stuff again. 

 

I'd consider @Illian Tear too, if he's happy/ready to contribute and not likely to accuse one of my higher reads. Waiting for their return/comments.

 

 

WTL

As it stands, probably looking mainly at Nyn/Kat/BWN for today for content. I'm wary this choice is possibly being affected by low post count etc/is #tooeasy.

 

Kat being here is a good start, and I'm hoping Nyn and Dice come back with something that lets me LOCKTOWN for either of them, but haven't seen it yet.

[Katiora]

3 hours ago, darc-star said:

not voting for either

darthe/illian

 

might vote for accuser

chris

dice

 

prob wouldnt vote for either

len

aj

cass

 

might vote yes if accused

kat

nyna

 

wouldnt oppose lynch

bwn the Penguin

seph

 

is probably where im at

 

 

Darc what is your thoughts on Seph. I have played very little and don't have much of a read. I like that they have been here some and had decent content earlier in the game. Honestly I need to go back and completely re-read yesterday, it's all a blur, but what has put Seph so low on  your list? 

[Cass]

@dicetosser1 When you wake up and drag your butt to the computer and catch up, I'd love to know where your gut is pointing to take to lynch today pls, and how/why.

 

Also, don't look at the time-stamps.

 

I'm going to bed for a bit - then I'll be at work/on phone - hopefully with decent down time.

[Illian Tear]

Vote: Dice

[Cass]

 

3 minutes ago, Illian Tear said:

Vote: Dice

 

Raisins?