Black Tower future location.

[Awakened]

If memory serves the Black Tower is in Andor. Obviously they want to be equal with the White Tower and will probably want their own nation, just like the Aes Sedai have. Do you think it likely they will try to relocate, possibly using the One Power? I seem to remember Loial mentioning how during the Breaking even cities shifted location due to the One Power. Or maybe they will find humbler means to pack up and leave, possibly to an abandoned portion of the Aiel Waste now that most of the Clans have decided to stay in the Wet Lands?

[Sabio]

I don't see them moving until the day the towers unify.  If I remember right Elayne has pretty much resigned herself that she will never have control over the BT and the area it covers.

 

The clans will go back to the waste as the aiel are basicly one clan now.  The clans won't stay in the wetlands.

If they did move the former blight would be perfect.

[solarz]

There's no real reason for them to move, but if they do, I think the site where Shadar Logoth used to be would be perfect. ;)

[Awakened]

 

I don't see them moving until the day the towers unify.  If I remember right Elayne has pretty much resigned herself that she will never have control over the BT and the area it covers.

 

The clans will go back to the waste as the aiel are basicly one clan now.  The clans won't stay in the wetlands.

If they did move the former blight would be perfect.

Most of what you said sounds about right except the Aiel. It has been specifically said in multiple places that the Aiel weren't going back, save the Shaido and brotherless. In one area it was said they weren't going back because the Wet Lands offer to much for the Aiel to just leave behind. In the case of Aviendah, it was specifically stated that the Aiel living in the Waste was the Wheel's way of forcing them to meet their Toh until they could pay it back by fighting in the Last Battle for Rand who had been the leader of the Aes Sedai they failed. Now that the Toh is met they were obligated to put their punishment behind them lest they demonstrate arrogance.

 

I believe in Memory of Light it was stated that they were subject to the laws of whatever nation they resided in but were not subjects of that nation.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Awakened

[Sabio]

I don't remember the Aiel ever saying they weren't going back.  All their homes and familes are still in the waste,  living in the waste still is hardly demonstrating arrogance since that is where they live.   They aren't going to abandon Rhudiean either.

[jack of shadows]

11 aiel clans are now part of the dragon peace...."the aiel--all but the

shaido--are to be written into the document as enforcers of the peace and

mediators of disputes between nations."

rand,effective immediately,(well,post last battle),saddled the clans with

a very daunting task of keeping the peace in randland,they are not going

back to the three-fold land,they are part of randland future now.

 

the former shadar logoth,or aridhol is a perfect place for 11 aiel clans.

 

and her name is aviendha.

[Sabio]

Nothing says the need to stay in  Randland, nations ask the aiel for help and the aiel can come and request aid if needed.  With gateways there is no reason why the Aiel have to stay in the wetlands every moment.  Remember all nations borders are set, which means the Aiels borders are set for the waste.  The other nations would not be happy if the Aiel show up and carve out thier own land.

[solarz]

The Aiel have a very loose hierarchical structure. They are organized into clans, which are subdivided into septs. Each septs are largely independent. In fact, it could be argued that each hold is independent!

 

Therefore, I imagine that the Aiel will settle where-ever they want. Some will go back to their holds in the Three-Fold Land, others will stay in the Wetlands to establish new holds.

Edited September 29, 2017 by SolarZ

[MasterAblar]

It's pretty unlikely the Ashaman would consider moving after everything they've done to reclaim the Black Tower from Taim. If Elayne is smart she'll try to get benefits out of having the Ashaman in Andor rather than antagonizing them or trying to gain control over them, not that she could really. For exemple Caemlyn could use some rebuilding I believe and having bunch of channellers would really help out in that regard. So offer them official sovereignty over the lands the Black Tower is on and forge strong ties with them.

 

In this way Andor will have strong ties with both the Black and White towers, and avoid a pointless and unwinnable confrontation with the Ashaman. The land the Black Tower is on isn't worth anything anyway.

[Elgee]

Elaida started building a whole new tower adjacent to the current White Tower. Maybe the Black and White Towers would sort of unite, and the boys would move in there?

[BFG]

Elaida started building a whole new tower adjacent to the current White Tower. Maybe the Black and White Towers would sort of unite, and the boys would move in there?

I think this would take a lot of time, or at least not this generation. Logain is scarred from being gentled and it will take time for the Aes sedai to get over the crazy men thing. Additionally I don't know that the Ashaman would be willing to give up their independence so quickly

 

And channelers have long lives, by the time the current generation die the separation will be ingrained

 

I don't think a merge is impossible, but I think it unlikely

[MasterAblar]

Yeah I don't think it would happen for a long time. And if it does I don't think it would be a full merge, more of an agreement to strengthen ties between them.

[BFG]

Happy to see you back Ablar :)

[Orderofolde]

There's no real reason for them to move, but if they do, I think the site where Shadar Logoth used to be would be perfect. ;)

If anything, when they unite they will likely build a vast city and new tower like in the Age of Legends.  I can't remember the name, Heaven's Gates or wherever the Aiel were packing up to leave when we see the Aiel in Rand's journey through the ter'angreal in Rhudien with the Aes Sedai and the dragon banner, callandor, and the HOV.

[BFG]

 

There's no real reason for them to move, but if they do, I think the site where Shadar Logoth used to be would be perfect. ;)

If anything, when they unite they will likely build a vast city and new tower like in the Age of Legends. I can't remember the name, Heaven's Gates or wherever the Aiel were packing up to leave when we see the Aiel in Rand's journey through the ter'angreal in Rhudien with the Aes Sedai and the dragon banner, callandor, and the HOV.

But is there any reason for them to reunite before channeling is lost altogether and forgotten?

[szilard]

I think the will work together, live together; regarding the core. But now (before TG) there are so many channellers, that they cannot live together.

 

 

But is there any reason for them to reunite before channeling is lost altogether and forgotten?

 

There's a little thing called life. Channeling will not die out five minutes after TG. 

 

 

@Orderofolde: Paaran Disen is not Gates of Hevan

[Sabio]

In time they will eventually unite, it will take a long time there will be alot of mistrsut and bad blood to be forgotten.  Possible it won't happen until the power is forgotten altogether and then resdiscovered, When they rediscover the power so much time has passed they won't remember anything and it would seem natural for the men and women to work together.

[Niniel]

I think that they will stay at their current location. I've wondered what will happen to the Asha'man and Aes Sedai who are bonded though. Where will they live? Will they start a grey tower?

[jack of shadows]

@bfg,

"i don't think a merge is impossible,but i think it unlikely."

 

agreed,a two towers merge is unlikely,certainly not in the immediate future,there

are too many complications,too many obstacles blocking such a move,i.e. trust issues

(both ways),independence issues,identity issues(the white tower is thousands years

old,the black tower is new,they need proper structure,rules,goals etc) and lastly,

the political landscape was changed by rand,he didn't send the captured damane to

salidar nor to the white tower,he sent them to andor,elayne complicated matters further

by bringing the kin with her,elayne was definitely on a collision course with the amyrlin

over this new kin-damane entity,"in her dress,elayne carried egwene's--the amyrlin seats-

official reply regarding the kin and what elayne had done.elayne could almost sense heat

radiating from the letter,but it was hidden behind official language..."

 

meanwhile,two things happened to logain and the black tower almost simultaneously,first,

they managed to free themselves from taim's clutches and a few days later,they lost their

political clout when rand entered shayol ghul,now,rand was not a very good boss but he was

an extremely powerful one,one should never underestimate the power of fear(factor).

 

this situation led to an interesting conversation between elayne and logain during the last

battle,

elayne:"did rand send you?"

logain:"we sent ourselves."

logain again:"we came to you FIRST.the black tower stands with the lion of andor."

this in my opinion,was more than a battle stance,it was logain's first decision as

the leader of the black tower,his political affiliation.

 

i am absolutely sure that elayne and logain will stick together for the foreseeable future.

[Sabio]

They have to stick together, Elayne doesn't have the power to boot the BT out of Andor (if she tried and won it would be very bloody and involver her having to fight bonded Aes Sedai) and the BT doesn't want to move so Logain knows it's in his best interest to not make Andor an enemy.  So like it or not, it's in both their best interest to play nice with each other.  A strong Andor is a good ally for the BT and the BT in Andor is another layer of protection for Elayne.

[jack of shadows]

yes they do,the black tower is not going anywhere.

[agreddon]

1.  I'm thinking Caemlyn and the Black Tower merge in a sort of Rome and the Holy See type way (i.e. it's not really a nation even if it is all but technically recognized as such).  Andor pulls slightly away from the White Tower and toward the Black The Black and White Tower work out some sort of Compact of Raven and Swan that dictates who defers to whom in what matters.  It's not perfect but it's a start.  

2.  The Aiel manage a peace with the Seanchan but still have the issue with the Shadio, and Creator knows where that ends up (do the Shadio end up becoming a sort of Jenn Aiel again).  They have to balance both the Dragon's Peace with their own dislike of the a'dam (which I think will need to be broken somehow, perhaps by Artur Hawkwing reborn in some manner).

3.  There will be a battle over the damane and the a'dam.  I don't believe it will technically violate the Dragon's Peace, but there will be a battle of some sort.  And again, Hawkwing is going to be part of it in some way shape or form given that Rand's off on his little vacay.

 

 

[Sabio]

Well if Tuon keeps her word and gives channelers a choice to be collared or go to the WT.  It could be the Seanchan run out of damane.  Since it seems like most Randland women would run for safety over willingly being collared.  The issue is Rand never made a deal about men who can channel, will the seanchan kill them, try to find a way to collar them, or let them go to the BT.

 

Shaido have made a blood feud with every other Aiel clan, if a fight breaks out the Shaido are going to get squashed.  Especially will all the defeats they have experienced.  Though oddly they never seem to be real low on numbers.  They also aren't part of the dragon's peace, so like Shara, they are fair game for anyone to attack.

 

With as mistrustful as Logain is of Aes Sedai, I couldn't see him merging with Andor.  I could sort of an agreement to help Andor if it's in need.  

Edited March 1, 2018 by Sabio

[agreddon]

7 hours ago, Sabio said:

Well if Tuon keeps her word and gives channelers a choice to be collared or go to the WT.  It could be the Seanchan run out of damane.  Since it seems like most Randland women would run for safety over willingly being collared.  The issue is Rand never made a deal about men who can channel, will the seanchan kill them, try to find a way to collar them, or let them go to the BT.

 

Shaido have made a blood feud with every other Aiel clan, if a fight breaks out the Shaido are going to get squashed.  Especially will all the defats they have experienced.  Though oddly they never seem to be real low on numbers.  They also aren't part of the dragon's peace, so like Shara, they are fair game for anyone to attack.

 

With as mistrustful as Logain is of Aes Sedai, I couldn't see him merging with Andor.  I could sort of an agreement to help Andor if it's in need.  

 

 

 Shaido also have the potential to really mess with the agreement given people's misunderstanding about the differences between Aiel.  And The Tower is approximately eight miles south from Caemlyn as I recall merging is pretty much an inevitability at least geographically.  The only question is whether it is treated as an embassy or as a functional part of the Caemlyn government.

[Sabio]

One thing with the Shaido is they don't know about the Dragon's peace and sounded as if Thevara was never planning to leave the waste again.  The BT I would guess will never give up their independence right now, so I couldn't see them ever allowing Elayne to command them.  I would guess that being part of the government wouldn't be an option for Logain..  Maybe something like the Two Rivers deal where they are "officially" part of Andor, yet really mostly independent.  I mean if the BT said screw you we are an independent city state leave us be, Elayne couldn't really do anything about it.  So that's why I think it would simply be easier for her to set up boundaries and tell them don't go past that or just do what she did with Perrin and the two Rivers.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sabio