Rand did things in the WRONG ORDER!

[Guest Gunnn24]

     I'm new to the series, just started Winter's Heart, and I think world events would have been much more peaceful if Rand had altered his journey slightly. At the start of TDR, Rand bolts for Tear because he's dreaming about Callandor. But what if the Pattern had pushed Rand to Rhuidean before Tear? Essentially, this would just change the order of books 3 and 4, but it drastically lowers the body count leading up to Tarmon Gaidon. And this is all because of Couladin. I'm sure the Forsaken were bad people back in the day, but Couladin harms the 3rd Age population of Randland WAAAAAY more than any of the Forsaken so far (I'm only on Winter's Heart).

 

     Let's say at the beginning of TDR, Rand runs across the continent same as before, but he heads toward the Portal Stone used in TSR, not Tear. As Moiraine, Perrin, and Faile chase Rand cross-country, the Three Stooges chase the Black Ajah to Tear, and Mat follows. They hire Julian, who leads them to a town outside Tear, nearby the Portal Stone. This town does not exist in TDR or TSR, but the Pattern ( or Robert Jordan) easily could have woven it. About halfway through our improved TDR, the Stooges get captured by the Black Ajah, then rescued by Mat and Rand, who has made it to the town near the Portal Stone by this point. Over the next day or two, Rand uses the town to prepare for his journey to Rhuidean, while Moiraine, Perrin, and Faile show up, as do Rhuarc and his crew, drawn there by the Pattern.

 

     Perrin and Faile leave for the Two Rivers, Nynaeve and Elyane go to Tanchico, and Rand, Egwene, Mat, Moiraine, and the Aiel go Rhuidean. However in this alternate timeline, they arrive weeks before the original book, because Rand hasn't taken the Stone, and doesn't need to spend weeks establishing his reign as The Dragon Reborn. Amys is waiting for Rand in Rhuidean, but Couladin has not arrived yet. Originally, Couladin was upset Rand was allowed to enter Rhuidean, but what really drove Couladin to fight was Mat and Moiraine being allowed, not being Aiel. Rand and Mat exit Rhuidean at Dawn as Couladin is arriving. All Couladin sees is an Aiel man with two Dragons on his arms, and he acknowledges Rand as He Who Comes with the Dawn. Remember, Couladin claimed to be the Chief of Chiefs, but that's not why he went to Rhuidean in the first place. He just wanted to be a chief. Rand fights Asmodean, and Lanfear makes Asmodean teach Rand. Book 3 ends. 

 

     In book 4, we never have to worry about the Shaido. Rand gathers the Aiel at Alcair Dal. We still lose some to the Bleakness, but most follow Rand. He makes a Gateway to Tear. You can guess what happens next. After a few weeks of restoring order to Tear, Rand wants to bring food to Cairhein. With no Shaido terrorizing Cairhein, Rand portals a massive Aiel and Tairen army outside their walls overnight. They surrender, and the sun rises on the Dragon banner above Tear and Cairhein. 

 

     Rand's army is MUCH larger from the added Shaido, not to mention there were a LOT of casualties when Rand fought the Shaido outside Cairhein. The Shaido aren't split up by the Forsaken to spread terror across Randland. Other countries bow to Rand, and he is able to defeat Rahvin before Morgase escapes Caemlyn, which greatly increases Andoran stability. I believe this would have eased the tensions between Andor and the Black Tower that I am seeing at the beginning of Winter's Heart. Or who knows, maybe Morgase wouldn't bow to Rand after he freed her from Rahvin. Or maybe she would bow, but would not let the Black Tower be in Andor.

 

Thanks for reading, please let me know what you think!

[Sabio]

One big issue is had he went to Rhuidean before Tear the aiel probably would of killed him.  Not to mention running about blindly in the waste trying to find Rhuidean.  His meeting the Aiel in Tear is what gave Rand the idea he needed to go Rhuidean.  Has he of just went to Rhuidean the Aiel would of seen him as just another wetlander in a place he shouldn't be.  His taking Tear and the sword is what made the Aiel sort of follow him.  Not to mention Mat would of been screwed because he would never of entered the door in Tear to know he needed to go to Rhuidean.  Without Tear, Rand would of had no idea he had to go to the waste.

 

Also Rand never would of exposed the secret at Alcair Dal, it was Couladin claiming to be the man that forced Rand to publicly say what he saw and break the Aiel.  Had it just of been Rand, there would of been no need for him to publicly say what he saw.

 

I like the idea, and there probably areas in the book that things could of been done differently.  But Rand going to Tear first was just too key.

[wotfan4472]

If Rand had gone to the Waste first, and did not die there, Ishamael could have easily arranged for Rand to be forced to face an extra Forsaken in the Stone. Sammael I could see coming in to fight him alongside Be'lal and Ishamael, perhaps even Demandred. That outcome would have been disastrous as Rand would never had drawn Callandor. Especially since Ishameal was clearly trying to get the male Forsaken to work together. Keeping Callandor from Rand as a mission on the Dark One's orders would have done it.

[BFG]

I think (vaguely recall) Rand taking the Stone is one of the things needed to prove to the Aiel who he was. Without that they would have killed him or left him to die in the Waste (a dream, not prophecy though)

 

I think it's also possible that Couladin fitted into the remnant of a remnant prophecy they had, very unsure on that though

 

Also fighting Couladin ended up forming the band of the red hand

 

I know all this could have happened some other way, but there's also a ~standard build in terms of the strength of the enemy. The Aiel were the first battles the main characters really participated in directly (weird out of body experience in eye excepted, great hunt was more a duel than a battle (with horn heroes thrown in), etc.

 

I guess the progression as is makes sense to me

[BFG]

I'm also not sure that peaceful is necessarily desirable in the build up to tarmon gai'don. Experience of armies is needed, not just bigger ones?

[jack of shadows]

"all couladin sees is an aiel man with two dragons on his arms,and he acknowledges

rand as he who comes with the dawn".

wishful thinking.couladin didn't matter,he wasn't the shaido true leader,sevanna was.

 

"couladin claimed to be the chief of chiefs,but that's not why he went to rhuidean in the first place..."

couladin went to rhuidean because he was sevanna backup plan to muradin,nothing more.

 

"we never have to worry about the shaido."

seriously?forget about that disgruntled peacock couladin,let's follow sevanna:

1.plan a.suladric.dead.failure.

2.plan b.muradin.dead.failure.

3.plan c.couladin.died outside cairhain.failure.

4.plan d was even more ambitious-rand.another colossal failure at dumai's wells.

failures galore didn't deter sevanna and the shaido,they just kept fighting(and you already know it),

robert jordan had a tendency to drag his story arcs ad nauseam,and whatever happened with the

shaido between dumai's wells and malden has never made any sense to me.

so did rand get his timeline wrong?i honestly don't think so.

[Sabio]

I think one area Rand could of done differently was after Bashere showed up, Rand could of went to the Borderlands and quickly of gotten them on his side.  The slapping and saying who the lady was didn't need to happen at the first meeting, but still could of happened right before the LB to see if Rand was ready.  But had Rand of gone up right away it would if saved the whle Borderlander army roaming about the land.

[Orderofolde]

I think (vaguely recall) Rand taking the Stone is one of the things needed to prove to the Aiel who he was. Without that they would have killed him or left him to die in the Waste (a dream, not prophecy though)

 

I think it's also possible that Couladin fitted into the remnant of a remnant prophecy they had, very unsure on that though

 

Also fighting Couladin ended up forming the band of the red hand

 

I know all this could have happened some other way, but there's also a ~standard build in terms of the strength of the enemy. The Aiel were the first battles the main characters really participated in directly (weird out of body experience in eye excepted, great hunt was more a duel than a battle (with horn heroes thrown in), etc.

 

I guess the progression as is makes sense to me

Yes, he was using the Dragon Reborn Prophesy as a checklist which Moraine sort of warned him was the wrong thing to do, that if he was the Dragon he would accomplish these things without setting out to deliberately do each one.  She also warned that the prophesy wasn't always what one thought it meant.

[BFG]

 

I think (vaguely recall) Rand taking the Stone is one of the things needed to prove to the Aiel who he was. Without that they would have killed him or left him to die in the Waste (a dream, not prophecy though)

 

I think it's also possible that Couladin fitted into the remnant of a remnant prophecy they had, very unsure on that though

 

Also fighting Couladin ended up forming the band of the red hand

 

I know all this could have happened some other way, but there's also a ~standard build in terms of the strength of the enemy. The Aiel were the first battles the main characters really participated in directly (weird out of body experience in eye excepted, great hunt was more a duel than a battle (with horn heroes thrown in), etc.

 

I guess the progression as is makes sense to me

Yes, he was using the Dragon Reborn Prophesy as a checklist which Moraine sort of warned him was the wrong thing to do, that if he was the Dragon he would accomplish these things without setting out to deliberately do each one. She also warned that the prophesy wasn't always what one thought it meant.

I'm not referring to the wetlander prophecies, pretty sure the aiel went looking for rand because the wise ones had a dream? (its been too long since I've read the books lol) and there was an importance to taking the stone for the aiel. If the stone hadn't fallen rand wouldn't have made it to rhuidean

[Sabio]

In TGH the aiel said " It is said there will be great signs and portents to his coming".  Then said "I thought you might have word of great events, the events that might hearld him". They didn't know what the signs would be or really where to go until Perin i believe said he is headed to Tear in TDR.  It's unknown if they knew the wetlander prophecy of what the fall of Tear meant.  But he took the sword and killed a forsaken, not to mention they may of seen one of the drawings of him fighting the DO over Falme.  So that gave them the thought, ok he might be the guy.  Without that Rand would of just been another wetlander to them.

[jack of shadows]

the aiel,or at least the clan chiefs knew more than that:".....that one will come later,

the stone that never falls will fall to announce his coming.of the blood,but not raised

by the blood...."(from rand's first flashback at rhuidean).

a few hundreds aiel crossed dragonwall in search for he who comes with the dawn,

and rhuarc was the only clan chief amongst them,although clan chiefs were forbidden

to reveal what they experienced at rhuidean,rhuarc had enough information to figure

it(rand) out,and he was their(de facto) leader.

[BFG]

Thanks jack <3

 

Thought there was something!

[jack of shadows]

your light speed is impressive,as usual...lol.

[BFG]

 

Timing lol

[dexterryu]

The simplest solution would have simply been for the wise ones to allow Couladin to enter Rhuidean. No way he would have survived it. At that point there wouldn't have been a "false" He Who Comes with the Dawn. Savanah would have likely followed Rand out of ambition.

[jack of shadows]

sending coulading to rhuidean wouldn't have changed anything,

sevanna understood as early as alcair dal that coulading wasn't

the car'a'carn,just a stupid shaido with two dragon tattoos on his

arms,prancing like a clown and ranting about days of glory.

70 days after his fleeting moments of grandeur at alcair dal,couladin was dead,

yet it didn't stop nor deterred sevanna from continuing with her grand

plan to rule all aiel by marrying rand ha!

[Sabio]

Couladin was needed for two reasons.  

 

First it made Rand reveal what had been hidden and second his going to Cairhien made Rand seem like a savior instead of an invader.  HAd he sent the Tairians north and then appeared with a large aiel army, he would of been seen as an invader.

 

 

Honestly the Shaido to me just seem odd, I always found it odd how almost all of the shaido so easily broke their cherished customs like ji'e'toh and taking non aiel gai'shan.  Sort of like the earth shattering news that may break the empire when its discovered Suldam can channel, was met with hardly a raised eye.  Seems like the Shaido rather casually broke traditions they had, with really no problem at all.  Just always seemed odd, could you see Rhurac's clan blindly breaking ji'e'toh?  .

[jack of shadows]

i agree,couladin,sevanna and the shaido were needed  until dumai's wells,

the rest in my opinion is rubbish.

[dexterryu]

sending coulading to rhuidean wouldn't have changed anything,

sevanna understood as early as alcair dal that coulading wasn't

the car'a'carn,just a stupid shaido with two dragon tattoos on his

arms,prancing like a clown and ranting about days of glory.

70 days after his fleeting moments of grandeur at alcair dal,couladin was dead,

yet it didn't stop nor deterred sevanna from continuing with her grand

plan to rule all aiel by marrying rand ha!

 

Without Couladin to be a false HWCwtD, it would have been advantageous for Savana to be as close to Rand as possible. It would have been more realistic for her goal of marrying Rand to be part of the clans than to separate. She still would have been an antagonist, just more along the lines of Lady Colavaere in Cairhein. Rand would have seen right through it in all likeliness and Egwene would probably not and assume something about Rand's arrogance.

 

Still, as Sabio stated Couladin's main purpose was to force Rand to reveal the Aeil's true past.

 

I also agree that after Dumai's wells the Shaido through-line should have been over with (would have avoided Perrin being boring for several books).

[jack of shadows]

perrin was born boring,there's no escaping it..lol.

[solarz]

Take a warrior culture that has been fighting amongst themselves for thousands of years, give them a messiah figure, and suddenly they all come together and obey the messiah?

 

Sounds a bit too convenient, no?

 

Remember the Brotherless? The Shaido basically became a magnet for all those Aiel who refused to accept Rand. Even if there was no Couladin, there was still Sevanna and Therava: ambitious, self-centered leaders who decide to prey on the weak.

 

As for doing things "in order", Rand did what he thought best given what he knew at the time. That is how the Pattern gets woven. Before meeting the Aiel in Tear, Rand had zero reason to go to Rhuidean. He has never even heard of this "He Who Comes with the Dawn". You might as well say he should have just went to Shayol Ghul at the end of The Dragon Reborn.

[trakand01]

Wasn't taking the Stone one of the Aiel prophecies? He had to prove himself before they would even tolerate allowing him to go to Rhuidean.

[JamesBrown]

From The Shadow Rising, Chapter 3:

 

[Rhuarc to Perrin]: "In your Prophecies of the Dragon, the fall of the Stone and the taking of Callandor proclaim that the Dragon has been Reborn. Our prophecy says only that the Stone must fall before He Who Comes With the Dawn appears to take us back to what was ours. They may be one man, but I doubt even the Wise Ones could say for sure. If Rand is the one, there are things he must do yet to prove it."

 

"What?" Perrin demanded.

 

"If he is the one, he will know, and do them. If he does not, then our search still goes on."